Recently as part of the group of Muslims who I am involved with a sister has taken charge for one of the projects and is leading group events. She has been leading the initiative to ‘feed the homeless’ in the local area. Brothers have been respondent to her. She has been appointing roles and directing resources and we have all been talking via e-mail.
Things are very effective. The ethos of purda often does not make sense to me. Men sit with men, women with women. The topics men talk about are about Islam and women talk about fashion; very rarely do they also talk about Islamic topics.
However, when mixed families come together then there is good talk and discussion.
Islam requires us to observe hijab. Men and women to lower gaze and to conceal our bodies from being articles of arousal in the opposite sex.
If two good Muslim families come together why do they feel the need to undertake segregation on top of the hijab they are already wearing? It does not make sense. They will go to the shops themselves and even work in society however when they sit in their good Muslims friends houses they will treat them as though they have the worst possible intentions and segregate. Surely society with all the kafir and deviant people are more likely to look upon our women with lust and evil intentions than the husbands of our Muslim sisters.
The purda originally existed so women could take off their coverings in order to sit with one another. For those who don’t know this the awra of the woman infront of another woman is different to her hijab for society. Purda was exercised by single women who would deal with men in private when giving Islamic advice such as in the case of Aisha (RA).
But in public, hijab is enough according to Islam. In front of ‘good’ women and mahram men they can even show their legs up to their knees and arms up to their arm pits and top part of their chests. Some even say that they can be topless infront of them without worry. However, now the purda is how women are separated from the affairs of men.
I will answer on few words- Culture and few bad apples.
In my own home some guest families would like to sit as families together , others want to stay segregated. I have no issues with both of those segments of my friends and acquaintances.
Why sit together if they have to consistently lower their gazes? isn't it better for both parties to sit seperately and feel more free to talk/ dress as they wish rather then for the woman to be all covered up infront of na-mahram/ lower their voices/ gazes, etc...
I am all for separation with an arrangement for group discussion, such as a light barrier. The reasons which are raised for separation are inevitably about 'ease' and 'comfort' rather than being based on Islamic reasons. The woman in hijab is allowed to subject herself to society, it allows her to be part of it.
The women who I feel should be in full purda are those who need to speak to men in semi-private situations. Such as 'alimah giving personal advice.
I mean if the women want to go off and have a private discussion that is fine, but some sort of arrangement should be in place for group discussion this is my main concern. There are many cases in our narrations where men and women have studied together with a light barrier between.
In front of 'good' women and mahram men they can even show their legs up to their knees and arms up to their arm pits and top part of their chests. Some even say that they can be topless infront of them without worry
Topless in front of brothers and fathers (Mahram men)? surely the 'some' who say that have lost the plot!
pyah u need to study Islam a lot even if women are wearing veil still men and women should avoid sitting together if they are not mehrams but even in front of mehrams you cant go topless except for some solid reasons women privat can only be seen by husbands even when girl grow to teen age level she should avoid going nude or semi nude in front of her husband and brothers and Islam is very strict with it
Islam does encourage modesty even with husband - shyness is good, but there is no penalty in husband seeing the sattar of his wife and vice versa. I said that some scholars argue that the breast do not need to be covered infront of mehram ... for example unveiling breast to feed a baby infront of the adult mehram is not blameworthy, but of course it is better to do this in private. I was talking about hudd (the limits) I was not talking about the 'best practices'.
Peace Zarvan Ali welcome to GS and yes I am here to learn so please teach.