What’s the sunni view of them? (eg their characters etc).
thanks.
u mean hind the wife of yazeed? or hinda?
from what i know, they were good people after conversion and thats what should matter. people tend to discuss their actions and position before conversion to islam to give them a bad name may be cuz they were parents of Muawiya r.a. and so on...
anyways, bad topic to discuss as it wouldn't bring anything good to anyone.
Sheraz CT, Muwiya's mom I guess she's Hind.
The Rainmaker, I just need answers from the sunni perspective.
I tend to think of Abu Sufyan as a business man. He knew that opening the doors of Islam and ending idolotary would mean closing the doors to alot of pilgrims. One of his decisions, which involved the return of the caravan before the first ghazwa despite opposition gave an advantage to the Muslims, who were fewer in number, so indirectly he had a big role to play in the success of Mohammad (PBUH) and his people. His role was portrayed very well in the movie 'The Message'.
umar (ra) wud let ppl sit in circles with the badari sahaaba closest and the new muslims at the outer end....
abu sufyan (ra) used to grumble when he too was made to sit at the outer end of the circle....
a more business minded and political minded person i think....
the type of personality u wud call "apnay kaam se matlab rakhnay wala"....
Mother of the believers Hazrat Ayesha's testimony that Muaweyah's mother Hinda committed adultery
"When Muaweyah's sister Umme Habeeba received news about Muhammad bin Abu Bakr's murder, she sent Ayesha a cooked goat suggesting that the reason for his killing was his murder of Uthman. When this happened Ayesha said "May Allah (swt) kill this daughter of fornicating woman. By Allah! I shall never eat this meat again".
Reference: Tadkhira Khawass page 62 Chapter "Dhikr Khwaarij"
useless thread.
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*Originally posted by rehman1: *
useless thread.
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And you bother to reply?
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*Originally posted by taqlee: *
And you bother to reply?
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It's a tough job, it's a dirty job, but someone has to tell it like it is...
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*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
It's a tough job, it's a dirty job, but someone has to tell it like it is...
[/QUOTE]
Let them carry their discussion if they want too. Moderators are monitoring it, isn't it?
Spock and Armughal thanks for your replies.
^Is that the sunni perspective?
Next time maybe I won’t open useless threads but only if you guys Lajawab and Rehman1 would volunteer to answer my questions in PM. teek hai ya nahin. 
Btw…yeh lo pee lo
[thumb=E]pani11810_7082258.JPG[/thumb]
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by inuit: *
**Mother of the believers Hazrat Ayesha's testimony that Muaweyah's mother Hinda committed adultery*
"When Muaweyah's sister Umme Habeeba received news about Muhammad bin Abu Bakr's murder, she sent Ayesha a cooked goat suggesting that the reason for his killing was his murder of Uthman. When this happened Ayesha said "May Allah (swt) kill this daughter of fornicating woman. By Allah! I shall never eat this meat again".
Reference: Tadkhira Khawass page 62 Chapter "Dhikr Khwaarij"
[/QUOTE]
when in the time of fath-e-makka, the wife of abu-sufyan went to the Prophet (saw) to embrace Islam, she asked him what her duties, as a muslim woman wud be....
so among the others, the prophet (saw) told her that muslim woman r to abstain from adultery....
she asked in a shock "do free women (who r not slaves) also commit adultery????"
and it was so easy for u to put the blame on her....
when Quran says u need 4 witnesses for blaming ppl of such an act....
and if u lie on this matter, u will be damned (sent laanat upon) by Allah and the angels....
do u even consider these things before slandering????
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
and if u lie on this matter, u will be damned (sent laanat upon) by Allah and the angels....
do u even consider these things before slandering????
[/QUOTE]
not to mention 80 lashes and their testimony never being accepted in an islamic state. i guess thats why no scholar ever accepts hadiths narrated by rafidis.
Is there any hadith from Hinda that tells us how Hazrat Hamza's liver tasted that she ate raw?
Look at the dubious characters you sunnis deem good. Bas, say La illla ha illal la, and the rest will all be overlooked, no matter that you are Hinda or Muwayah or Yazid.
May Allah (swt) show you the right path.
ws
^
so tawbah in ur view has no meaning????
or do u think everyone had to embrace Islam as soon as he/sher heard of it and whoever delayed even a bit, went astray????
armughal & ThandyMazaq !
Having firm believe in the words of Hind as compared to the words of The Holy Prophet (PBUH) and the words of Hazrat Ayisha could be the practice of Nwasib. However this is not un expected from you.
You dont care what Prophet asked Hind on that day: “muslim woman r to abstain from adultery” as you wrote.
You dont care what Hazrat Ayisha said: “May Allah (swt) kill this daughter of fornicating woman.” as I mentioned earlier.
You are worried about Hind who is still asking questions to the Holy Prophet: “do free women (who r not slaves) also commit adultery???”
Actually she is trying to make room for free women and you are trying to protect her.
Question: there could be lots of other Nsiyat advices for women in Islam from Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) as it was his common practice to guide people. He (PBUH) specifically choose that particular topic (or talk about committing sins) while giving advice to a person in which that specific person is/was busy, this he did to protect him/her from that. why did Prophet(PBUH) mention adultery while talking with Hind. Was she committing before? and why she was arguing in front of Prophet (PBUH) and behaving like Qoom e Musa (Buni Israel)while choosing a cow for sacrifice.
Also Tell me. What was the Prophet’s reaction on this “do free women (who r not slaves) also commit adultery???” You don’t know what Prophet said in reply of her question.
It was so easy for you to put the blame of telling lie on me but you didn’t even care about Hazrat Ayisha while you were talk in favor of Hinda. Why is it so? Why are you so fan of the family of Yazid(Ln). The blame you are putting on me could go to Hazrat Ayisha. Think about it.
Before putting the blame of telling lie on me first ask Hazrat Ayisha that from where she got 4 witnesses to mention Umme Habeeba the daughter of fornicating woman.
Mother of the believers Hazrat Ayesha’s testimony that Muaweyah’s mother Hinda committed adultery
"When Muaweyah’s sister Umme Habeeba received news about Muhammad bin Abu Bakr’s murder, she sent Ayesha a cooked goat suggesting that the reason for his killing was his murder of Uthman. When this happened Ayesha said “May Allah (swt) kill this daughter of fornicating woman. By Allah! I shall never eat this meat again”.
Reference: Tadkhira Khawass page 62 Chapter “Dhikr Khwaarij”
Before writing this first check this site which will give you reference of those narrators who were Rafidies and their hadith was accepted by Bukhari . You can download the document in many languages.
Rafidi Shi’ah narrators in Sahih al-Bukhari
http://www.al-islam.org/nutshell/
Question: You Mr. handyMazaq tell me. What if somebody take a narration from a killer of Imam Hussian (A) what would you say about him.?
For convenience of armughal I am writing some Hadith as follows.
EVENTS AFTER THE CONQUEST OF MAKKAH
The important and instructive events related to the conquest of Makkah have already been narrated. However there are two other important events which are mentioned below:
After the oath of allegiance taken at 'Aqabah [1] the Prophet formally took for the first time an oath from the women to perform these duties: Not to associate anyone with Allah as His partner; not to commit breach of trust; not to indulge in corrupt practices; not to kill their own children; not to associate with their husbands the children who actually belong to others; not to oppose the Prophet in any matter.
The ceremonies of the above oath were on these lines.
As ordered by the Prophet a vessel full of water was brought to him and he mixed some perfume in it. Then he put his hand into it and recited the 12th verse of Surah al-Mumtahinah. Thereafter he rose from his seat and said to the women: “Those who are prepared to take the oath of allegiance to me on the said conditions should put their hands in the vessel and formally declare that they would faithfully abide by these conditions”.
In the oath of allegiance taken at 'Aqabah before the Prophet’s migration three women were also included amongst more than seventy persons who took the oath.
The cause of taking this oath was that there were many amongst the women of Makkah who led a loose life and if a promise from them to lead honourable life had not been taken it was possible that they might have continued their immoral activities secretly. One of them was ‘Hind’ the wife of Abu Sufyan and the mother of Mu’awiyah who had a dark past. Being extremely rude she imposed her will on her husband Abu Sufyan; and even on the day on which he was inclined towards peace she was inciting the people to resort to fighting and bloodshed.
It was due to the instigation of Hind that war broke out in the field of Uhud and the Prophet had to sacrifice seventy lives including that of Hamzah to quench it. And this savage woman cut the side of the dead body of Hamzah with unusual cruelty and taking out his liver cut it into two with her teeth.
The Prophet had no alternative but to take the oath of allegiance from this and other such women publicly. When the Prophet while reciting the text of the agreement read the clause ‘not to commit breach of trust’ Hind who had fully covered her head and face rose from her place and said: “O Prophet of Allah! You are ordering women not to commit breach of trust. What am I to do? My husband is very miserly and exacting master and for this reason I have been embezzling his property in the past”. Abu Sufyan rose from his seat and said: “I make lawful for you whatever you have taken in the past but you must make a promise that you will not steal in future”.
*Hadith 3:413
Narrated 'Aisha:
Hind, the mother of Mu’awiya said to Allah’s Apostle, “Abu Sufyan (her husband) is a miser. Am I allowed to take from his money secretly?” The Prophet said to her, “You and your sons may take what is sufficient reasonably and fairly.”
Hadith 3:640
Narrated Aisha:
Hind bint 'Utba (Abu Sufyan’s wife) came and said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Abu Sufyan is a miser. Is there any harm if I spend something from his property for our children?” He said, there is no harm for you if you feed them from it justly and reasonably (with no extravagance)."*
The Prophet recognized Hind on account of the remarks of Abu Sufyan and said to her: “Are you the daughter of 'Utbah?” She replied; “O Prophet of Allah! Yes. Forgive our sins so that Almighty Allah may bless you”. When the Prophet uttered the sentence: “Not to commit fornication” Hind rose from her place again and uttered a sentence to exonerate herself whereby she divulged to him unintentionally what was in her mind. She said: "Does a free woman commit fornication? " From the psychological point of view such defence was in itself a sort of unveiling of one’s conscience. As Hind knew herself to be a woman of that type and was certain that on hearing the above mentioned sentence (from the Prophet) people would look up towards her she at once enquired by way of precaution whether a woman who was not a slave-girl could be guilty of fornication. However some persons who had illicit connection with Hind during the period of ignorance wondered and laughed at her denial and their laughter and her own defence became all the more the cause of her disgrace.
Continue…
Majma'ul Bayan vol. V page 276.
Sunni scholar Ibn Abi al Hadeed in Sharh Nahjul Balagha notes the following:
*
"When Muaweyah was born, four people were thought to have been his father Abi bin Umar bin Musaafir, Abi Umar bin Waleed, Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib and Sabah the Ethiopian. 'Abu Sufyan was short and ugly whilst Sabah was young and handsome, Hinda offered him sex and amongst the Arabs there was also a view that 'Abu Sufyan's other son Utbah was also a product of this union".*
Sunni reference: Sharh Nahjul Balagha by Ibn Abi al Hadeed Volume 10 page 130
Sunni scholar Allamah Zamakhshari records the following in his Rabi'ul Abrar:
*
"There were four people who were thought to be Muaweyah's father, Abi bin Umar bin Musaafir, Abi Umar bin Waleed, Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib and Sabah"*
Sunni reference: Rabi'ul Abrar by Allamah Zamakhshari Volume 3 page 551
*
"Sham bin Muhammad Kalbi in his book Kitab Mushab notes that Imam Hasan said to Muaweyah 'Are you aware of the bed from which you was conceived?' This means he was born from four fathers".*
Sunni reference: Tadkhirath al Khawwas page 114 Chapter 7
We also learn that Muaweyah's mother Hind was a prostitute:
*
"In relation to the birth of Muaweyah, four men were viewed to have been his father Umr bin Waleed bin Mugheera, Musaafir Abi Umar, 'Abu Sufyan and a forth individual was also involved. Hinda was a prostitute and had sex with black men, if any children were born from such a union she would kill them." *
Sunni reference: Thanzeeya al Nasab fi Kubul al Arab
*
"Research has established that Musafir was a handsome and generous man, he fell in love with Hinda and fornicated with her, she was unmarried and became pregnant, this came to the knowledge of the Quraysh and Musafir ran away. Hinda's father Utbah summoned Muaweyah's father Abu Sufyan - bribing with a huge dowry, he married him to Hinda. Muaweyah was born three months after the marriage." *
Sunni reference: Muasalib ibne Sa'man munkool uz thun'zeey al Nasab page 97
- For me this is enough: Mother of the believers Hazrat Ayesha's testimony that Muaweyah's mother Hinda committed adultery
"When Muaweyah's sister Umme Habeeba received news about Muhammad bin Abu Bakr's murder, she sent Ayesha a cooked goat suggesting that the reason for his killing was his murder of Uthman. When this happened Ayesha said "May Allah (swt) kill this daughter of fornicating woman. By Allah! I shall never eat this meat again".*
Reference: Tadkhira Khawass page 62 Chapter "Dhikr Khwaarij"*
** Now before making any blame against me: first think twice it could go to Hazrat Ayisha** Ask this question to her not us: * armughal : so tawbah in ur view has no meaning????*
^
r u responsible, or am i responsible for what ayesha (ra) said????
**but/b u r very well responsible for what u say and if what u r saying is wrong, the u will very well be punished for it....
so if their is doubt, is it necessary to say someone is bad????
u can always think good for him/her and u will get ajar for ur good thoughts....
u cant be sure of history....
and how can u guarantee that what ayesha (ra) said was not of the natural jealousy that exists between "sotan"s (wives of the same man)????
^
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r u responsible, or am i responsible for what Ayesha (ra) said????
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And what about The Prophet (PBUH) has said in that conversation. You could not comment on that.
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is it necessary to say someone is bad????
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Who told you that telling people about the symbols of evil and their bad deeds for Nasiyat is also bad.
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of Satan?
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of Qabeel?
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of wife of Noah(A)?
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of son of Noah?
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of Hamaan?
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of Numrood?
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of Firoon?
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of Samari?
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of Ibn Ubaie?
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of Abu Jahil?
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of Abu Sufyan?
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of Hind?
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of Yazid?
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of Dajal?
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of Sufyani?
Is it bad to tell people about the bads of Yajooj Magooj? etc etc
Am I in favor of Satan for his tricks?
Am I in favor of Qabeel that he killed Habeel?
Am I in favor of wife of Noah(A) the she was not with him in the times of greater flood?
Am I in favor of son of Noah(A) that he was not with him in the times of greater flood?
Am I in favor of Hamaan in favor of false kindom?
Am I in favor of Firoon in favor of his killings and false kingdom?
Am I in favor of Numrood in favor of his killings and false kingdom?
Am I in favor of Samari in favor of his munafiqat and shirk?
Am I in favor of Abu Jahil in favor of his kufar?
Am I in favor of Abu Sufyan for his Munafiqat?
Am I in favor of Hind for her Munafiqat?
Am I in favor of Yazid for his Yazidiyat?
Am I in favor of Dajaal for his Dajal
Am I in favor of Sufyani representing evil forces against Imam Mahdi(A)
Am I in favor of Yajooj Magooj for their destructions?
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u can always think good for him/her and u will get ajar for ur good thoughts....
[/quote]
What do you think; tell me.
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for Satan?
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for Qabeel?
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for wife of Noah(A)?
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for son of Noah?
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for Hamaan?
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for Numrood?
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for Firoon?
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for Samari?
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for Ibn Ubaie?
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for Abu Jahil?
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for Abu Sufyan?
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for Hind?
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for Yazid?
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for Dajal?
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for Sufyani?
Would you get Ajar for ur good thoughts; if you always think good for Yajooj Magooj?
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u cant be sure of history....and how can u guarantee
[/quote]
The true stories have been told; and you already know what is good and what is bad. Whoever will stop us to tell these true stories for Nasiyat will be considered with them.
Look at the *root cause *.
Am I against her because of something good in her OR something bad in her?
Truly! I am against her because of something bad in her. *Whoever wants to stop telling about her and her evil character; what would you say about him *? Obviously! He/she will be with her.
[quote]
how can u guarantee that what Ayesha (ra) said was not of the natural jealousy that exists between "sotan"s (wives of the same man)????
[/quote]
How can you guarantee that the Ayisha's statement was false even approximately 40 years after the death of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH). What benefit she wants to get from Prophet Muhammad(PBUH), if she is taking Umme Habeeba as her Sotan.
Even if you think that this kind of feeling (Sotan ka Hasad) in Hazrat Ayisha's heart was so strange that she said Hazrat Umme Habeeba; daughter of fornicating woman as you said. Then I would rather reserve rights to ask you a question that whether these kinds of feelings in a woman (Mother of Believers') can exist in her heart against Dayvor, Husband's Cousins or the daughter of other wife. You can not guarantee that what's in her heart (and whats not) because of natural jealousy. If you say this hypothesis is false; that (daughter of fornicating woman) can also be false and if you say it could be true then my claim (as per Hazrat Ayesha's saying) about Hind is correct.
So you have to decide one of the above two situations. Up to you