Abu huarira (part 2)

[quote]
Originally posted by Mullah_DoPiazza:
** Dear Alpha1:

Abu Huraira, when translated into english could mean one of the two things:
It can be a family name Abu Huraira like chaudhry, khan etc. or it can simply mean 'father of huraira'. So what's the real name of this individual with so many hadiths attributed to him. My point is that the authors of bukhari created a fictional name to attribute all those hadiths to it and somehow justify them to be as sayings of the Prophet. Mullah_DoPiazza (edited July 12, 2001).]**
[/quote]

So in other words, you deny the existance of this companion, and secondly you are questioning the authticity of the Sahih of Imam Bukhari?

Now that is something to laugh aloud at.

So whoever does not narrate in the way the Sabains/Shia would like them to, they are ersaed from the history books? This is some sort of ex post genocide. How interesting.

By the way, just cause someone has a Kunya to thier name does not mean they did not exist. Abu Huraira was called so because he kept and looked after cats and was thus named in that way.

And by the way Mr Mulla de, tell me what you find so objectionable about the narrations of Abu Hurairah (RA)?

[This message has been edited by Alpha1 (edited July 12, 2001).]

[quote]
Originally posted by Alpha1:
** So in other words, you deny the existance of this companion, and secondly you are questioning the authticity of the Sahih of Imam Bukhari?
**
[/quote]

That's correct.

bro munda

i think u are more essentially questioning the authenticity of sahih bukhari, and thus indirectly raising questions about abu huraira

breif history...he was a jew, converted after the battle of khaibar..lived the prophet(saw), by that i mean, 3 years after khaibar, the prophet(saw) passed away


"There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true"
Anonymous

All Shia people,

I opened a separate thread, but no one seems to be interested enough to answer.

what are sources of 'authentic/beleivable' ahadith Shiite people refer to?


We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

i'm not shia...lets get that outta the way first...but shia's do not accept abu huraira's sayings

the one's they believe are nuj-ul-balagha(spelling?)


"There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true"
Anonymous

[quote]
Originally posted by Ahl_e_Sunnah:
*i'm not shia...lets get that outta the way first...but shia's do not accept abu huraira's sayings the one's they believe are nuj-ul-balagha(spelling?)
*

[/quote]

I think the spelling is 'nahjul-balagha', if i am not wrong. SomeOne else can verify...?

yes doll.. u are right..how old r u btw? and what do u know bout this book?

[quote]
Originally posted by Sheraz CT:
yes doll.. u are right..how old r u btw? and what do u know bout this book?
[/quote]

I know very little about this book. I forgot when I came across this book first.... I think its a shia book if I am not mistaken. Correct me if I am wrong.
p/s: I am in my mid 20's

it's saying by imam ali(as)


"There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true"
Anonymous

All of you are just wasting your time.
Sunnis believe in their own sources and shia in their own. That's that and nothing is going to change that.

Anyway I am just posting ask the source for this?
Where is this from and whose article is it talking about?

[quote]
Originally posted by Ahl_e_Sunnah:
**sorry this isn't from abu huraira...but it's one of those false hadiths
Some traditions are found in Sunni books to the effect that the Prophet (s.a.w.) on migrating to Medina found the Jews fasting on the 10th of Muharram. He asked them why, and was told: "It is an auspicious day; it is the day when God delivered the children of Israel from their enemy (i.e. Pharaoh); and, therefore, Moses fasted on that day." The Prophet (s.a.w.) said, "I am worthier of Moses than you are." Thereupon, he fasted on that day and ordered (the Muslims) to fast.
1. al-Sahih of al-Bukhari, Vol.3; Egypt ed.; p.54

  1. Mishkatul-Masabih; Delhi ed.; 1307 A.H.; p.l72

Some traditions are found in Sunni books to the effect that the Prophet (s.a.w.) on migrating to Medina found the Jews fasting on the 10th of Muharram. He asked them why, and was told: "It is an auspicious day; it is the day when God delivered the children of Israel from their enemy (i.e. Pharaoh); and, therefore, Moses fasted on that day." The Prophet (s.a.w.) said, "I am worthier of Moses than you are." Thereupon, he fasted on that day and ordered (the Muslims) to fast.

  1. al-Sahih of al-Bukhari, Vol.3; Egypt ed.; p.54

  2. Mishkatul-Masabih; Delhi ed.; 1307 A.H.; p.l72

It is noted by the commentator of Mishkatul-Masabih that "it was in the second year, because in the first year the Prophet had arrived at Medina after 'Ashura, in Rabi'ul-awwal."

How much importance was this fast supposed to have may be judged from another tradition narrated in al-Sahih of. al-Bukhari: "The Prophet (s.a.w.) ordered a man from the (tribe of) Aslam: Announce to the people that whoever has eaten should fast the rest of the day, and whoever has not eaten should fast (the whole day), because today is the 'Ashura (10th day of Muharram)."

That very year the fast of Ramadan was ordained and the obligation to fast on 'Ashura was abrogated, as has been claimed in other traditions narrated in the same book. Still, reportedly, it carries much importance as a voluntary fast.

Now let us look closely at these traditions:

First: The Jews had their own calendar and months. There is no logic in saying that they fasted on the 10th of Muharram - unless it could be proved that this date always coincided with a Jewish day of fast.

It was mentioned in my article, "Martyrdom of Imam Husayn and the Muslim and the Jewish Calendars" (Alserat, Vol.VI, No's 3 & 4; Muharram 1401 Nov.1980) that the first month of the Jews (Abib, later named Nisan) coincided with Rajab of the Arabs. W.O.E.Oesterley and Theodore H.Robinson have written that in Arabia "the most important of all the new-moon festivals was that which fell in the month of Ragab (sic), equivalent to the Hebrew month 'Abib, for this was the time when the ancient Arabs celebrated the Spring festival." (Hebrew Religion; S.P.C.K., London; 1955; p.128)

Probably, in ancient times the two branches of Abraham's house followed the same system of intercalating an additional month 7 times in a cycle of 19 years. And in this way the 7th Jewish month, Tishri I, coincided with Muharram. And the 'Ashura of Muharram synchronized with 10th of Tishri I, the Jewish Day of Atonement - a day of fast. In that article, it was observed that the two calendars lost their synchronization when Islam, in the 9th year of hijra, disallowed intercalation. But on deeper consideration it transpired that that parity was lost long before the advent of Islam, because the Arabs did not follow any mathematical calculation in their intercalation. That was why the Muharram of the 2nd year of Hijra began on 5th July, 623 C.E. (Al-Munjid, 21st ed.), months before Tishri I (which always coincides with September-October).

Clearly, 'Ashura of Muharram in that year (or, for that matter, during the Prophet's whole life at Medina) had no significance whatsoever for the Jews.

The question is: Why did they fast on that day?

Second: The Jewish Midrashic literature relates the 10th day of the 7th month (Yom Hakippurim - Day of Atonement) to the event of bringing the tablets of the Covenant from Mount Sinai, as Dr. Mishael Maswari-Caspi has written in his letter, quoted in my previous article, mentioned above.

The question is: If the Jews had wanted to keep the long-lost synchronization of Tishri I and Muharram in view, how was it that they forgot to narrate this tradition to the Prophet?

Third: The month in which God delivered the Israelites from Pharaoh was Abib (i.e. Rajab), as the Bible clearly says: "Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover unto the Lord thy God: for in the month of Abib the Lord thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night." (Deut., 16:1)

The question is: How could the Jews transfer an event of Abib (originally coinciding with Rajab) to Muharram, in open defiance of their Torah?

And lastly here is a point to ponder for the Muslims: The Prophet (s.a.w.) was sent with a religion to abrogate all previous religions and shari'ah. How was it that he deigned to imitate the custom of the Jews?

It is clear from above-mentioned facts that the Jews had no reason at all to fast on 'Ashura of Muharram at that period; and this story, built on that premise, is just that - a fiction. Obviously, it was invented by a narrator who only knew that once upon a time Muharram coincided with the Jews' Tishri I; but was totally unaware of contemporary Jewish religion and culture.

One feels constrained to mention here that this and other such traditions were forged by camp-followers of the Umayyads, after the martyrdom of Imam Husayn, as a part of their campaign to turn the 10th of Muharram into a day of rejoicing. These traditions are of the same genre as those which say that it was on the 10th of Muharram that Noah's ark rested on Mount Arafat, the fire became cool and safe for Abraham, and Jesus ascended to the heaven. In the same category came the traditions exhorting the Muslims to treat 'Ashura as a festival of joy, and to store one's food-grain on this very day as it would increase one's sustenance and bring the blessings of Allah to the household.

**
[/quote]

[quote]
Originally posted by Ahmed:
**All of you are just wasting your time.
Sunnis believe in their own sources and shia in their own. That's that and nothing is going to change that.

Anyway I am just posting ask the source for this?Where is this from and whose article is it talking about?**
[/quote]

Does anyone know why Sunnis have their own sources and Shia have their own?

Is this the reason why there is a difference in both sects?

dude that’s from al-islam.org

it’s not about anyone…it’s about people fabricating that hadith to rejoice on ashura instead of mourn

check it out…al-islam.org http://al-islam.org/al-serat/fastofashura.htm

that’s the direct link

but if u want..go to al-islam.org and go to site search
type in ashura…and go to the 6th one

latez


“There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true”
Anonymous

Right, so it’s from the shia website.
Only goes to prove my point that shia and sunni have their own versions and the differences between the two are basic and they will never agree each other.

So why don’t you guys try to look beyond this, and decide to respect each other and just accept the each others’ point of view and move on?

CORRECTION!
Najh al Balagha is not a collection of Hadith.

It is a book of speechs/sermons made by Hazrat Ali (AS) on different occasions.

Please don’t spread false information.

you can read the Najh al Balagha at http://al-islam.org

i don't know if they are quoted by Abu Huraira,

But Many of so-called hadith in Sahih Bukhari are so idiotic, lewd, vulgar and degrading that it is impossible that the Holy Prophet PBUH could have said thos things..

The fact is that this Bukhari character who lived during the Abbasid reign got a lot of pressure from the Abbasid government to invent false things about the Prophet PBUH and his family.

The Abbasids hated the Prophet PBUH and his family intensly. They did everythign they could for character assasination of the Prophet PBUH, Hazrat Ali(AS) etc.

The caliphs even attempted to destroy Hazrat Ali's grave, but they couldn't locate it.

(btw I'll quote the fake hadith shortly.)

[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
**There is a saying.....

When Ducks fly above a man he can only see them not reach them. same goes with Idiots!!

I asked a simple question and You guys get confused.

Why did he have more reported hadeeths than everyone else?

See if anyone can answer that?

**
[/quote]

Well Mr Jahan, Ill give you the shorter answer:

His full name is Abu Huraira al-Dawasi al Yamani. Before embracing Islam he was called ‘Abd Shams, but when he became a muslim, his name was changed to ‘Abd Allah and ‘Abdur-Rahman. He was called Abu Huraira because while he hearded his people’s goats, he kept a little kitten to play with. When he came to Medina, the Prophet was on the expedition to Khaaibur (7/629). He was a devout Muslim and was one of the prominent members of Ahl al-Suffa. He died in 58/678. He had no other business to attend to and no occupation to distract his attention but to listen to the words of the Holy Prophet. So long as the Prophet remained outside the four walls of his house, he stayed with him and listened to him very attentively. He had an extraordinary memory and nothing was blurred or effaced from his mind. The traditions of the Holy Prophet narrated on his authority are estimated at 3500.

Hence Abu Huraira was the formost collector of narrations and spent all of his efforts in preserving this deen of Allah.

Great Now we are gettin Somewhere!!

Alpha,
Bhai saab Even if a guy has a terrific memory 3000+ sayings are a little to tough to swallow as there are bound to be mistakes(he was Human if I'm correct)

If you belive all these 3000+ sayings are true it would really mean you have no commen sense!!


When the Lion is Dead, Every Assthinks it can Kick it!!!!

Well Mr Jahan, my armour-clad freind, thats going into the usool of the muhadetheen. Without knowing the methods behind the compilations and narrations, you cannot assume that he gave incorrect narrations.

There are precise criterion for accepting a narrations and I will not go into that here. Needless to say, a narration is accepted upon many criteria, and the narrator is only one of them.

Just because his narrations do not confirm the Immamate of the Sabians, and just because he does not narrate that Ali should have been the first Khalifah - you would automatically assume that he is either a liar, or a fictional character?!?

The Shia have been the ones inventing lies. They have invented a false Sura in the Quran, they have claimed that many Surahs more were revealed. The Shia have lied about many such more things.

Your thread has made me do some research into this area. I will inshallah be creating new threads to discuss the Shia claims with evidences from your own books and narrations from the Shia Imams.

Indeed Allah is pleased with all of the companions of the message of Allah (SAW), as they are pleased with Allah. I pray that may Allah curse those who curse them. Ameen.

Dear Shah Jahan,
Hadrat Abu Hurairah(Radi Allah an hu) quoted more than 5000 Ahadiths
but around 3000 could pass the conditions of Imam Bukhari and Imam Tirmazi
And brothers there are hundreds of different Hadit books but 7 authentic books(listed below) are famous due to the strict rules the writers followed to collect Ahadits.
Bukhari
Muslim
Tirmazi
Sunnan-e-Nissai
Sunnan-e-Ibn e Maja
Sunn-e- Abu Dawood
and i think seventh is Mota-e- Imam Malik
There are different catagories od Hadiths and there is a whole number of different rules to classify them.
And Shia bros. we don't blame you for questioning about hadits, you people believe that Quran is not in its origional complete form so how wouldn't you question about Hadit.

Shias are against most Great Sahabas, Mother of Momineen, Hadit Narraters and other great personalities
Which Islam do you believe in then??????

[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
**Great Now we are gettin Somewhere!!

Alpha,
Bhai saab Even if a guy has a terrific memory 3000+ sayings are a little to tough to swallow as there are bound to be mistakes(he was Human if I'm correct)

If you belive all these 3000+ sayings are true it would really mean you have no commen sense!!

**
[/quote]

do u guys know that in the time of the first three caliphs abu huraira was not allowed to give hadith...

soooo he withheld all that info, 3000+ hadith in his head?


"There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true"
Anonymous