You want to benefit from the standard of living.....you want to benefit from the financial benefits but you want to live in a bubble and create mini Pakistans inside your homes. Why don't you assimilate and embrace the culture as well? It is the same culture that has given you the financial benefits. Rehna angrezon k mulk mein...lekin rehna Pakistanion ki tarha. For your info...most of the immigrants get totally assimilated by the 3th generation anyways....you cannot stop something which is bound to happen...
You want to benefit from the standard of living.....you want to benefit from the financial benefits but you want to live in a bubble and create mini Pakistans inside your homes. Why don't you assimilate and embrace the culture as well? It is the same culture that has given you the financial benefits. Rehna angrezon k mulk mein...lekin rehna Pakistanion ki tarha. For your info...most of the immigrants get totally assimilated by the 3th generation anyways....you cannot stop something which is bound to happen...
Let's give up Islam too and take on Christianity...why not? American culture is a mix of German, Italian, Mexican, French, etc and now desi too since we have a few desi words in the American English language. I am going to embrace my religion, subculture, my ethnicity even if I am American too. I will try to show the beauty of it to future generations.
Why do desi men prefer to marry a woman not raised abroad as a life partner? What qualities do they possess in general that woman raised abroad don't have?
Why is Pakistan or Bangladesh or India considered first rather than a local desi girl if the man is abroad?
Do we need to start watching desi soap opera serials too in order to to know how to deal better with family politics?
GG, there will be someone judging you no matter HOW you raise your kid. He/she will be judged by their own culture based on their profession, skin color, looks, physique, Urdu, English, presentation, cooking, etc etc etc.
I think its to stop worrying about WHO will marry our girls...the best approach is to simply make them into all they can be.
You know the sate of local marriages in USA..The divorce rates in USA and then compare them with Pakistan.You will get you answer in a jeffy. P.s My parents are the perfect example for me that arranged marriage has top notch success rates..
ANd if you are USA born i would suggest you to find a decent local girl as you may have come compatibility issues with Pakistani 1s.
I'd see if this idea of marriages in Pakistan being more long lasting is still true.
Its true for our parents' age but not our generation.
You know the sate of local marriages in USA..The divorce rates in USA and then compare them with Pakistan.You will get you answer in a jeffy. P.s My parents are the perfect example for me that arranged marriage has top notch success rates..
ANd if you are USA born i would suggest you to find a decent local girl as you may have come compatibility issues with Pakistani 1s.
The divorce rate of desis in USA or divorce rates in general in USA?
I have nothing against arranged marriage that is approved by the parents if it means a perfect, good match.
^Religion is personal while culture is not. Very simple.
Why isn't culture just as personal as religion? You can love the culture and see the beauty in it just like religion
Let's give up Islam too and take on Christianity...why not? American culture is a mix of German, Italian, Mexican, French, etc and now desi too since we have a few desi words in the American English language. I am going to embrace my religion, subculture, my ethnicity even if I am American too. I will try to show the beauty of it to future generations.
Your 3rd generation will have nothing Islamic left in them anyways...so why try to stop the inevitable. This is coming from a guy born and raised in West and graduated from NY Uni who shifted to the East (United Arab Emirates) Which incidently happens to have a higher standard of living than your West...
Your 3rd generation will have nothing Islamic left in them anyways...so why try to stop the inevitable. This is coming from a guy born and raised in West and graduated from NY Uni who shifted to the East (United Arab Emirates) Which incidently happens to have a higher standard of living than your West...
I agree with you. I'm a fob so I'm kinda traditional type of guy who likes to hold it's roots but here in West I always fear raising my kids, well I don't have kids not even a wife right now but I'll have them sooner or later which makes me feel that it's a tough job to raise them here and it's a fact. I know we get all the benefits of living here, no doubt about that but I don't know maybe I'll try to relocate somewhere in the middle east.
And talking about generalization by Pakistanis about abcds or whatever is based on the majority, not like everybody is abcd but it's just that they see majority of them westernized. I personally experienced that so I can tell better.
maybe I'll try to relocate somewhere in the middle east.
Raising children in the Middle East isn't necessarily easier than raising children here. Whether or not children grow up to be decent, respectful members of society depends on the upbringing they received at home from their parents, not where they grew up. I'm not saying that environment does not play a role in this as it definitely does but not to the degree that many people think.
An interesting thing I've noticed here (I live in the UK) is that it is often the newly arrived kids (I'm not keen on the word "fob" or "freshie" as they're termed here) who lose their way as a result of wanting to fit in to what they think western society is like and not knowing how to handle their newly found "freedom."
I agree with you. I'm a fob so I'm kinda traditional type of guy who likes to hold it's roots but here in West I always fear raising my kids, well I don't have kids not even a wife right now but I'll have them sooner or later which makes me feel that it's a tough job to raise them here and it's a fact. I know we get all the benefits of living here, no doubt about that but I don't know maybe I'll try to relocate somewhere in the middle east.
And talking about generalization by Pakistanis about abcds or whatever is based on the majority, not like everybody is abcd but it's just that they see majority of them westernized. I personally experienced that so I can tell better.
Once in a while I come across my childhood friends from West, about half of them have married non muslims and their kids are muslims in name only. Some have held onto their Pakistaniyat while other like me have migrated. With the things I saw in high school and generally in society, I was sure I didn't want my son growing up in this melting pot. I also didn't want y daughter to grow up and decide to participate in the yearly Miss Pakistan Bikini pageants (Sonia ahmed & CO)
There seem to be a LOT more girls wearing hijab in the UK then 10 or 20 years ago.. Yes, people tend to become more distant to their culture as time goes on but to say they’re less likely to be practising Muslims is ridiculous.. In fact I’m pretty sure there are studies which show the younger generations are MORE interested in Islam (and I mean real Islam, not the culturally biased version) than their parents were..
Some ‘back homers’ seem to link culture to Islam when they’re obviously two distinct things.. Your daughter wearing jeans and a jumper doesn’t make her any less of a Muslim than a girl wearing salwar khameez.. If not being so close to Pak culture and the thought of your kids marrying a different race bothers you that much then don’t move in the first place.. No-one is forcing you to
Your 3rd generation will have nothing Islamic left in them anyways...so why try to stop the inevitable. This is coming from a guy born and raised in West and graduated from NY Uni who shifted to the East (United Arab Emirates) Which incidently happens to have a higher standard of living than your West...
Islam and culture are two different concepts altogether.
I see the same degree of Islam in Pakistanis that are new in the US and the ones that have been here a while. There's no difference in the religious aspect of their lives. There IS a difference at times in their cultural upbringing...meaning the culinary skills will be different, Urdu will not be as correct, preferences in cuisine will be according to what they're used to, etc.
An interesting thing I've noticed here (I live in the UK) is that it is often the newly arrived kids (I'm not keen on the word "fob" or "freshie" as they're termed here) who lose their way as a result of wanting to fit in to what they think western society is like and not knowing how to handle their newly found "freedom."
Hmm. You said earlier that whether or not kids grow up to be decent and respectful members of society depends upon upbringing more than environment. Then if these new arrivals went astray so easily, does that mean there was something lacking in their upbringing and that their new environment was able to trump it so easily?
I think it also depends upon where in the Middle East one lives. I don't want to get into a debate b/w back home kids vs the ones raised abroad....but I do believe that it's more work for Muslim parents to raise kids in the West because the values and trends of the macro-culture comes into conflict with those of Islam and Desi culture. Not impossible, but requires more work.
Ummm when the prime minister says “why don’t they leave, who’s stopping them” to Phir reh kya jaata hae. There are so many ppl who have good businesses or work and love Pakistan but it seems like all of them are being forced into a corner till they do actually leave, and ofcourse first choice is always the middle east and the west. If they had all those opportunities in Pakistan, no corrupt government, national debt, with their strikes and bullying tactics, power cuts and paani nahi aa raha and ji ab gas load shedding bhi hogi… Ofcourse everyone is going to go for greener pastures. Why won’t they? Doesn’t mean they have to give up who they are or how they’d like to raise their children.
Raising children in the Middle East isn't necessarily easier than raising children here. Whether or not children grow up to be decent, respectful members of society depends on the upbringing they received at home from their parents, not where they grew up. I'm not saying that environment does not play a role in this as it definitely does but not to the degree that many people think.
An interesting thing I've noticed here (I live in the UK) is that it is often the newly arrived kids (I'm not keen on the word "fob" or "freshie" as they're termed here) who lose their way as a result of wanting to fit in to what they think western society is like and not knowing how to handle their newly found "freedom."
You're right that it also depends on the upbringing of children because sometimes kids brought up in Pakistan are worse than ones in the west and best ex. of this are my cousins born and bred in uk, both brothers one in early 40's have twins girls and another in late 30's and both are great human beings who never lost their track but one thing is missing from the younger brother's life is 'Religion'. It's not like he disrespect or don't have faith but he never get that teaching from his parents at the right time to learn about Islam so he doesn't pray and fast at all and the elder brother's kids now turned to 5 but haven't been to Pakistan once so they don't know nothing about their relatives, culture which may lead to same what Islamabadi was talking about.
I'm in Canada and same terms above also used here for us. Well what I observed now that some parents now sending their children to Islamic schools doesn't matter how expensive they are but they don't want to send them to public schools just because of their environment.
Hmm. You said earlier that whether or not kids grow up to be decent and respectful members of society depends upon upbringing more than environment. Then if these new arrivals went astray so easily, does that mean there was something lacking in their upbringing and that their new environment was able to trump it so easily?
Yes, I did say that and it holds true for the "new arrivals" I was referring to. The pattern that I have observed with "new arrivals" who go astray is that their upbringing wasn’t all that great to begin with (contrary to the opinion of many who think that all families back home are shining examples of religiosity and modesty). In most of the cases (that I’m familiar with) the parents seemed rather the type who don't lead by example and had a "do as I say but not as I do" parenting style, so it would be accurate to say that their upbringing was quite lacking and had more to do with their issues than the environment.
My comment regarding new arrivals was more in response to what several posters had implied, which was that all people who are raised abroad end up becoming cultureless and irreligious individuals with no connection to their roots, while everyone raised back is a shining examplesof culture and religious practice. Now, I am not saying that there aren’t some people who lose touch with their culture but to generalise and state that everyone who moves abroad or was raised abroad loses their cultural identity is absurd.
Raising children in the Middle East isn't necessarily easier than raising children here. Whether or not children grow up to be decent, respectful members of society depends on the upbringing they received at home from their parents, not where they grew up. I'm not saying that environment does not play a role in this as it definitely does but not to the degree that many people think.
An interesting thing I've noticed here (I live in the UK) is that it is often the newly arrived kids (I'm not keen on the word "fob" or "freshie" as they're termed here) who lose their way as a result of wanting to fit in to what they think western society is like and not knowing how to handle their newly found "freedom."
Or freedom is what we wanted and came here for. Freedom and better opportunities is what I left home for. Some people do it to fit in, others do it because they don't think there's anything wrong with it. It's all about what you believe is right.
Yes, I did say that and it holds true for the "new arrivals" I was referring to. The pattern that I have observed with "new arrivals" who go astray is that their upbringing wasn’t all that great to begin with (contrary to the opinion of many who think that all families back home are shining examples of religiosity and modesty). In most of the cases (that I’m familiar with) the parents seemed rather the type who don't lead by example and had a "do as I say but not as I do" parenting style, so it would be accurate to say that their upbringing was quite lacking and had more to do with their issues than the environment.
My comment regarding new arrivals was more in response to what several posters had implied, which was that all people who are raised abroad end up becoming cultureless and irreligious individuals with no connection to their roots, while everyone raised back is a shining examplesof culture and religious practice. Now, I am not saying that there aren’t some people who lose touch with their culture but to generalise and state that everyone who moves abroad or was raised abroad loses their cultural identity is absurd.
Probably what RV is trying to say that is the prevailing culture had a huge role to play in the examples you mentioned. As you said, those kids went 'astray' after expereinceing the freedom of the west. So basically, environment CAN play a big role. It would've been a bit more difficult for these kids (with not a very good upbringing) to go astray in eastern culture.
