A Zionist visitor

welcome.
but why did you feel the need to disclose your identity (if what ever you mentioned is authentic)?

This whole thing is "queer". :)

err... ONE state for ALL people, regardless of their ethnicity and religion?
oops. Am I being "too" democratic"?

You are wrong to say that Palestinians do not accept two state solution either. Problem is Zionist insistence on keeping East Jerusalem (Islam's holy mosque), and continue its illegal settlements in West Bank.

BTW, if you are atheist then why do you insist on Zionism? Zionism is racism, and atheist are supposed to be no racist. At least "positive atheists".
Also, do you really believe in Hebrew/Jewish race in the first place?
And if you are atheist then do you still believe in occupation of foreign land based on religion through forceful evacuation of original inhabitants of a land?

Re: A Zionist visitor

mai jab bhi kisi yahudi zionist kutay ka sunta hu to meray samany yeh tasweer aa gati hai
mother_dead_3 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

mother_dead_1 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

mother_dead_4-1 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

DEATH TO TERRORISTS on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

message 2 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

yes tasweeray dekhnay kaa baad mera khoon kholnay lagta hai or meray dil say hilter kay liay dua e khair nikalti hai.
agar is forum pai koi larki naa hoti to mai is londay ki aisi khatir twazo kerta kay yeh hitler ko bhi bhool jata.

Re: A Zionist visitor

how did u find this site?

Re: A Zionist visitor

^He's still thinking about that...lolz

Sorry for a late response. Free time is a luxury.
Answering your question, any generalization of this sort is unhealthy and plainly wrong. It is one of the necessary steps of xenophobia and racism. I mean when people are no longer treated as individuals, but faceless members of "them". Then it rapidly slips into "reasoning" like "They killed one of ours, we should kill one of them", "They killed our children, we are justified at killing theirs". You'd be surprised how many people fail to see a logical problem here; I'm not even talking about the moral one.

It's not an issue of where one's genetic ancestors come from or where they used to live at some point of history. The main point is one's national identity. You are right that there are no pure races, and if traced well back anybody is a genetic relative of anybody else on this planet. However, sometimes people form a certain connecting identity - a tribe, a nation, a people. Sometimes, when separated from the rest of the group or from their national homeland, they lose this connection and assimilate within the local majority. Yet, sometimes it does not happen and people preserve their national identity, their link to their national homeland and the rest of their people. No matter where they are and how much time has passed, they keep this link, passing it from generation to generation.
I'll give you an example. The right of return is a very big issue for the Palestinians. I mean the Palestinians, majority of whom where born outside of Palestine and have never been to Palestine. Those people, who live in London or Toronto, were born there and their children were born there, some of them speak English much better than Arabic, and yet insist that they are Palestinians, demand their right of return to Palestine and promise that they will never abandon this demand and will return eventually no matter how much time will pass. Some would say that this promise is completely unrealistic, but I don't know... It did happen to the Jews after all.

Relatives or not, these are two different people now and as turns out, the Jews and the Palestinian see exactly the same piece of land as their one and only national homeland. This is the main problem. There are also some secondary issues, like certain religious directives, which add fuel to the fire.

It is a good question. Maybe it's because their political leaders strongly encourage them against compromising, or because of "support" from other Arab countries who are very enthusiastic at fighting Israel "till the last Palestinian", or maybe it is because of the influence of some other political groups and forces, which find continuation of the conflict more useful than its resolution.

Hell, maybe it is just human nature. It seems like everybody hates war, and yet wars happen all the time. Go figure.

I forgot to address this question.

I think it is a pity it turned out this way. It did not have to. There were several opportunities for a peaceful arrangement that would prevent that.

Totally by accident. I was googling something completely unrelated (I don't even remember what), and this site turned out near the top of the search results.

The same argument can be presented by other groups saying that their blood boils and they hate every Muslim, when they see pictures of victims of terrorism, conducted by our so-called Muslims involved in suicide bomb blasts and beheading of Army personnel in Pakistan.

Lets NOT generalise and stereotype. It doesn’t matter if AlexB is Jew, Atheist or a Christian. The important thing is that he is on a Pakistani board to LEARN about us, which also presents an opportunity to us to learn about them. We both can learn about each other’s societies IF we keep an open mind here.

I hope to answer to all of you.

The basic idea of Zionism is restoration of the independent Jewish state in the historical homeland of the Jewish people. This is the only essential element of Zionism. Anything else is superficial and not defining.

Zionism did not die with creation of Israel, but was partially realized. Why partially? Because establishment of a state takes a little more than a simple declaration. The state should also be recognized by its neighbors and live in peace with them. It is hardly a normal situation, when a state has armistice lines instead of national borders. It was the situation with Israel from the moment of its creation till 1979, when the first piece of the national border was established (with Egypt). And mind you, this situation was not Israel's fault or intention.

As you know any good idea can be perverted and driven to absurd. The right-wing extremists among Zionists is a case to the point. But saying that you hate Zionists, because of them is like saying that you hate Muslims because of Taliban, or you hate socialists because of Stalin.

Since settlements seems to be quite a big issue, I should say that only a very small part of Israelis or Zionists support the settlement movement out of truly ideological conviction. A large part is simply against it, but for the majority of those who do not object it or even support it the reason boils down to a simple formula "if they don't wish to compromise, why should we?".

Just a few more points. "The Greater Israel" is a completely bizarre idea, which nobody takes seriously these days.
Taking the homes of Palestinians and converting them into settlements was never a part of Zionist ideology, modern or otherwise. There are, however, other things, which are not a part of any ideology, but rather a part of the conflict realities. There are, for example, demolitions of houses of terrorists or houses used to launch a terrorist attack (as a deterrence measure). Or, there has been a slogan "We will respond to every terrorist act with establishment of a new settlement". Palestinians usually respond with another attack, to which Israel responds with another settlement, to which Palestinians respond with an attack, to which Israel responds... You get the picture.

Thank you.
Yes, I could easily put here pictures of killed Israelis. So? What does it prove?

No, you are being too utopian.

Palestinians do object to any concept of the Jewish state. After ~100 years of a conflict, it still remains a main problem.
Regarding East Jerusalem, I should remind you that Jerusalem is an ancient capital of the Jewish state, and the Temple mount (the Al Aqsa location) is the holiest place of Judaism. So Israel also has some valid argument here. :)

Zionism is not racism, it is a national-liberation movement of the Jewish people.

No. Neither it is a part of Zionism in any way.

Again, neither my beliefs, nor a part of Zionism.

Re: A Zionist visitor

Okay so if there are peaceful people among Zionists then there must be peaceful people among Taliban, fair enough.
What are your views on Satmar Hasidim and Neturei Karta?? Why are they anti-zionist?

I'm not sure that there are peaceful people among Taliban, just like there are probably no peaceful people among Kahanists. If you compare these two groups, it probably would be a fair comparison.
Yet, there are plenty of peaceful people among Zionists (a majority), just like there peaceful people among Muslims, or all those people who support an independent Palestinian state.

Regarding Satmar and Naturei Karta, they oppose Zionism on religious grounds.
There are Jewish religious Zionists and Jewish religious anti-Zionists out there. It is a funny thing about religion - based on the same religious scripts, people can equally zealously support one idea and its absolute opposite.

Taliban and Zionism, both are political organizations unlike Islam or The Kingdom of God on earth, and believe me there are Talibans who are peaceful and against terrorism just like some Zionists.

I'm not aware of Kahanists but I'd like to know more about the differences among zionist jews and non-zionist jews, how do you feel towards the groups of non-zionist Jews who oppose the illegal occupation of Palestine (existence of Israel)?

Re: A Zionist visitor

and one more thing!

why does Israel not stop building, building, building? The majority of Israelites does not think good about Muslim and we in majority do not think positive about Israelites. We are the each other hating cousins/brothers since the time of Muhammad (saw).

The Thing is, problems which your folk causes, why is it put in a Muslim’s shoe? Can you explain me this?
I confirm my accusation with a picture in the link below. You and all can look for yourself. Why don’t you bomb Iran who threatens Israel to bomb it off the worldmap? You can’t, because you need the gas of Iran someday.

These wars [and history shows and tells us] are only fought for the own advantage. May it be religously, may it be because of the [the arabs indeed are wealthy with their oil] resources in the Middle East or may it be just the fascination of slaughtering innocent people.

I have read everything about Israel till to Today and their doings. The majority of Israelites hates to purchase goods touched by an Arab or produced. Even if they have to travel on the other side of their homeland, they do it just to get it from jewish hands. I guess same it is with the Muslim.

I’m Not accusing you but explain me this!

First Palestine, then Afganistan [Cold War], Iraq/Afghanistan together. Now all eyes are on Pakistan.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8992/pali.jpg

please click on the link and care to explain. I would recommend also the others members not to waste their time and watch this link.

am I wrong when I say that Israel is trying to take over Palestine and when once done it’ll become an base for their ongoing wars against humanity for their own sake or shall I say misery?

this statement can be presented or not.aik cheez app nai sabit ker di hai kai app Yahudi ul Nasal Hain.
yeh yehudi ul nasal or hindu baniay hi insurgents ki monetary support ker rahay hain.

app ki misal aisi hai more loyal to the king than the king himself.hahahahah fittaymou thouada