A Western qoute abt Islam.

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

“Muslims not only despise Western secular values as decadent, materialistic, corrupt and immoral. They do not accept the distinction between the spiritual and the temporal, the division which in Christian societies confines religion to the margins of everyday life. Instead, for Muslims, the whole of human life must represent a submission to God.

This means that they feel a duty to Islamicise the values of the surrounding culture. Since most of the mass immigration now convulsing Europe is composed of Muslims, it is therefore hardly surprising that anti-immigrant feeling is largely anti-Muslim feeling. The sheer weight of numbers, plus the refusal to assimilate to Western values, makes this an unprecedented crisis for Western liberalism. The crisis is forcing it to confront the fundamental questions of what constitutes a country, national identity and the very nature of a liberal society.” Melanie Phillips, Spectator Magazine, May 2002

ok people what do u think?

2

former British PM Churchill who said in reference to the use of poisoned gas against Iraqis post-World War I, “I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. The moral effect should be good…and it would spread a lively terror…”

3

“The underlying problem for the West is not Islamic fundamentalism. it is Islam, a different civilisation whose people are convinced of the superiority of their culture and are obsessed with the inferiority of their power.” Samuel Huntington, Harvard University, The Clash of Civilisations and the Remaking of World Order

4

:eek:

scary!

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Hey there Clubber-boy. What part of your 1st posting do you disagree with? It seems to sum up your standard positions on all things western.

6

And this quote from your second posting seems to sum up your motivations, IMHO:

"convinced of the superiority of their culture and are obsessed with the inferiority of their power"

Don't you also agree with this Club?

7

Former CIA director James Woolsey, quoted in The Washington Post (September 15th 2002), outlined the real motives for war on Iraq when he said, “France and Russia have oil companies and interests in Iraq. They should be told that if they are of assistance in moving Iraq towards decent government, we'll do the best we can to ensure that the new government and American companies will work with them. If they throw their lot with Saddam, it will be difficult to the point of impossible to persuade the new Iraq government to work with them”.

8

'refusal to assimilate to Western values'

extremely interesting! if by assimilation the writer meant that the Muslims should perhaps somehow relax the laws of Islam, then she should give up the hope of seeing the Muslims ape the west. sure some actually do, but to expect the same from the masses....... keep on dreaming!

9

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by clubber lang: *
“The underlying problem for the West is not Islamic fundamentalism. it is Islam, a different civilisation whose people are convinced of the superiority of their culture and are obsessed with the inferiority of their power.” Samuel Huntington, Harvard University, The Clash of Civilisations and the Remaking of World Order
[/QUOTE]

i 100% agree with this quote.

10

why other civilisation are not based on religen like western, indian or
chinese it is more based on racial linguistic and culturtral aspects with their identity. why it should be based on religen?

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
why other civilisation are not based on religen like western, indian or
chinese it is more based on racial linguistic and culturtral aspects with their identity. why it should be based on religen?
[/QUOTE]

as said many times before islam is not just a religion, its a cult, a way of life.
and as quoted in clubber llang's post:
"They do not accept the distinction between the spiritual and the temporal, the division which in Christian societies confines religion to the margins of everyday life."

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and shud we really be bothered with what they think????

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Jhankar: *

as said many times before islam is not just a religion, its a cult, a way of life.
and as quoted in clubber llang's post:
"They do not accept the distinction between the spiritual and the temporal, the division which in Christian societies confines religion to the margins of everyday life."
[/QUOTE]

even muslim countries dont follow universal islamic law or conduct state
affirs on purley relgious basis since they have to deal with wider
non-islamic world.

14

All you need is Believe in Allah … :bukbuk:

15

so we should close our eyes and limit our vision??? :confused:

and not all westreners have negavtive views on islam, you can always find gems among stones.

“But Islam has a still further service to render to the cause of humanity. It stands after all nearer to the real East than Europe does, and it possesses a magnificent tradition of inter-racial understanding
and cooperation. No other society has such a record of success uniting in an equality of status, of opportunity, and of endeavours so many and so various races of mankind . . . Islam has still the power to reconcile apparently irreconcilable elements of race and tradition. If ever the opposition of the great societies of East and West is to be replaced by
cooperation, the mediation of Islam is an indispensable condition. In its hands lies very largely the solution of the problem with which Europe
is faced in its relation with East. If they unite, the hope of a peaceful issue is immeasurably enhanced. But if Europe, by rejecting the cooperation of Islam, throws it into the arms of its rivals, the issue can only be disastrous for both.”
H. A. R. Gibb, WHITHER ISLAM, London, 1932, p. 379.

“It (Islam) replaced monkishness by manliness. It gives hope to the slave, brotherhood to mankind, and recognition of the fundamental facts of human nature.”
Canon Taylor, Paper read before the Church Congress at Walverhamton, Oct. 7, 1887; Quoted by Arnoud in THE PREACHING OF ISLAM, pp. 71-72.

“How, for instance, can any other appeal stand against that of the Moslem who, in approaching the pagan, says to him, however obscure or degraded he may be ‘Embrace the faith, and you are at once equal and a brother.’ Islam knows no color line.”
S. S. Leeder, VEILED MYSTERIES OF EGYPT

“Sense of justice is one of the most wonderful ideals of Islam, because as I read in the Qur’an I find those dynamic principles of life, not mystic but practical ethics for the daily conduct of life suited to the whole world.” Lectures on “The Ideals of Islam;” SPEECHES AND WRITINGS OF SAROJINI NAIDU, Madras, 1918, p. 167.

“History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths
that historians have ever repeated.” De Lacy O’Leary, ISLAM AT THE CROSSROADS, London, 1923, p. 8.

“The extinction of race consciousness as between Muslims is one of the outstanding achievements of Islam, and in the contemporary world there is, as it happens, a crying need for the propagation of this Islamic virtue.” A. J. Toynbee, CIVILIZATION ON TRIAL, New York,
1948, p. 205.

“I am not a Muslim in the usual sense, though I hope I am a “Muslim” as “one surrendered to God,” but I believe that embedded in the Quran and other expressions of the Islamic vision are vast stores of divine truth from which I and other occidentals have still much to learn, and ‘Islam is certainly a strong contender for the supplying of the basic framework of the one religion of the future.’”
W. Montgomery Watt, ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY TODAY, London, 1983, p.ix.

‘I believe in One God and Mohammed the Apostle of God,’ is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honours of the
prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion." Edward Gibbon and Simon Ocklay,
HISTORY OF THE SARACEN EMPIRE, London, 1870, p. 54.

“The doctrine of brotherhood of Islam extends to all human beings, no matter what color, race or creed. Islam is the only religion which has been able to realize this doctrine in practice. Muslims wherever on
the world they are will recognize each other as brothers.”
R. L. Mellema, Holland, Anthropologist, Writer and Scholar.

“Medieval Islam was technologically advanced and open to innovation. It achieved far higher literacy rates than in contemporary Europe;it assimilated the legacy of classical Greek civilization to such a degree that many classical books are now known to us only through Arabic copies. It invented windmills ,trigonometry, lateen sails and made major advances in metallurgy, mechanical and chemical engineering and irrigation methods. In the middle-ages the flow of technology was
overwhelmingly from Islam to Europe rather from Europe to Islam. Only after the 1500’s did the net direction of flow begin to reverse.” Jared Diamond, UCLA sociologist, and physiologist who won the Pulitzer Prize for his book: “Guns, Germs, and Steel.”

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"I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of
existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today."

George Bernard Shaw, THE GENUINE ISLAM

Despite the growth of antagonism, Moslem (Muslim) rulers seldom made their Christian subjects suffer for the Crusades. When the Saracens finally resumed the full control of Palestine the Christians were given their former status as dhimmis. The Coptic Church, too had little cause for complaint under Saladin's (Salahuddin) strong government, and during the time of the earlier Mameluke sultans who succeeded him the Copts experienced more enlightened justice than they had hitherto known. The only effect of the Crusaders upon Egyptian Christians was to keep them for a while from
pilgrimage to Jerusalem, for as long as the Frank were in charge heretics were forbidden access to the shrines. Not until the Moslem victories could they enjoy their rights as Christians."
James Addison in 'The Christian Approach to the Moslem,' p. 35

"During all the first part of the Middle Ages, no other people made as
important a contribution to human progress as did the Arabs, if we take this term to mean all those whose mother-tongue was Arabic, and not merely those living in the Arabian peninsula. For centuries, Arabic was the language of learning, culture and intellectual progress for the whole of the civilized world with the exception of the Far East. From the IXth to the XIIth century there were more philosophical, medical, historical, religiuos, astronomical and geographical works written in Arabic than in any other human tongue."
Phillip Hitti in 'Short History of the Arabs:

17

may be islam was sucessful when it was liberal and in pursuit of science
and technology. no such educatonal or scientific institutions
and liberal educational syystem exist in any muslim countries
that exists in the west now. there is no euivalent of london paris or newyork type comoplotitan cities with various religious and ethenic
diversity exist now in any muslims countries. even muslims of various
natinalities only able to live western cities rather than in any other islamic cities.

18

European Parliament, Mogens Camre, was quoted in the newspaper Politiken as saying, “All countries of the Western world are infiltrated by Muslims - some of them speak to us politely, while they wait until they are enough to kill all of us.”

This same party produced an anti-welfare poster with a picture of a white homeless man with the caption, “When I become Muslim, I’ll have a house.” This is a common unfounded claim, that Muslims get special treatment when it comes to welfare. Absurd perhaps, but appealing to a shallow populace.

The arrogance of the West is all too clear to see.

19

I also saw poster on TV in denmark where a little blonde girl was put and caption was
“when i grow up majority of denmark will be muslim”
Vote for party X if you want to prevent this :frusty2:

20

On Qur'an...

John Burton: "The method of transmitting the Qur'an from one generation to the next by having the young memorise the oral recitation of their elders had mitigated somewhat from the beginning the worst perils of relying solely on written records..." (John Burton, An Introduction to the Hadith, p.27. Edinburgh University Press: 1994)

Kenneth Cragg: "This phenomenon of Qur'anic recital means that the text has traversed the centuries in an unbroken living sequence of devotion. It cannot, therefore, be handled as an antiquarian thing, nor as a historical document out of a distant past. The fact of hifz has made the Qur'an a present possession through all the lapse of Muslim time and given it a human currency in every generation never allowing its relegation to a bare authority for reference alone." (Kenneth Cragg, The Mind of the Qur'an, p.26. George Allen & Unwin: 1973)

On Hadith...

Professor D. S. Margoliouth: " ... its value in making for accuracy cannot be questioned, and the Muslims are justified in taking pride in their science of tradition." (Lectures on Arabic Historians, Calcutta University:1920, p.20)

Bernard Lewis: "But their careful scrutiny of the chains of transmission and their meticulous collection and preservation of variants in the transmitted narratives give to medieval Arabic historiography a professionalism and sophistication without precedent in antiquity and without parallel in the contemporary medieval West. By comparison, the historiography of Latin Christendom seems poor and meagre, and even the more advanced and complex historiography of Greek Christendom still falls short of the historical literature of Islam in volume, variety and analytical depth." (Lewis, Islam in History, Open Court Publishing:1993, p.105)

Cambridge History of Arabic Literature: "The migration of the Companions, the scholars' open sessions in Makkah and Madinah, especially during the annual pilgrimage season, and the journeys in search of knowledge speeded the transmission of Tradition. Evidence of continuous written transmission of Tradition from the second quarter of the first century onward is available in early and late Islamic sources." (The Cambridge History of Arabic Literature, p.297)

Iqbal