Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
tikhi et al, Awais e qarni knocked out all his teeth when he heard the Prophet lost a tooth in jang e uhad. kindly research and tell me the prophet's reaction to it.
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
when you read Quran again..don’t forget to read about Hazrat Yaqoob :as:..He cried all His life when he heard his son Hazrat Yousuf :as: was killed..even though he knew his son was alive but he cried so much that he lost his eye side..and i am sure i don’t have to tell you that both Hazrat Yousuf :as: and Hazrat Yaqoob :as: were Prophets of Allah..so if the Prophet of Allah can cry all his life then whats wrong if we cry for the Grandson of our Best Prophet?
another thing tikhi sahiba…When Hazrat Owais Kurni found out that Prophet Mohummad (pbuh&up) lost his tooth in a battle, he broke all of his teeth..Prophet (pbuh&up) was so pleased with this act that he called Owais Kurni his “Sahabi” even though Owais Kurni never met Prophet (Pbuh&up) ..this is in your books too
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
luc: you're wrong about narae haidri. if you count the number of naray you'll find salawat is most common, followed by nara'e haidri which usually comes in points of jazba for some reason :).
secondly, our salawat i believe is based on durud e ibrahimi which is allahuma salle ala muhammadin wa aale muhammad kama sallayta ala ibrahima wa aale ibrahim.. or something (apologies for inaccuracy) which is required in namaz.
our durood is : allahuma salle ala muhammad wale muhammad.
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
LUC: do not forget that we can not go ahead and say that Imam Hussain:razi: had less patience.
If we read in Quran, it is obvious that Hadhrat Ayoob:as: had shown the greatest patience in the history of Human beings.
Please, do no compare about the patience and all… Just respect and learn the lesson from it. They all had different levels due to different scenerios. They all succeeded in the eyes of ALLAH:swt: and at the end that’s all it matters.
The question is can we follow them in such acts?
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
why edit my reply and only answer what u ant to answer 
, i asked u 2 more questions why neglect them?
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
i've answered your questions luc.
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
Aye mere Allah..mujhay aur patience de..iss waqt bohut zaroorat parr rahi hai
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
oh bhai hold your horses..
seems like it’s just a misunderstanding … thanda paani piyo. I will never understand why do we shia and sunni fight on matters where we all respect the same person… you are right .. we need more patience 
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
u gotta give me a break here..i said we will go to ur other 2 questions only after we settle the first…whats wrong with you? can’t you read?
and i see ravage already answered your question..we say Allahuma salle ala Mohummad wa ALE Mohummad
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
its frustrating…itnay simple answer do aur phir bhi kuch assar hi nahi hota..lagta hai been bajana chorna pare ga mujhay
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
anyways i gotta go to sleep..got work in the morning
hope tikhi jalebi could get something out of all this
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
let us chat, all respect to the ahl e beyt comes due to him who's beyt it was, the Prophet. let us not go into who respects him more, because that is really stupid.
let us obey common laws of decency, and agree to let the other person decide what his beliefs are. we respect the Prophet above any other creation of Allah, you take us on our word, and we will believe the same about you.
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
**Important note :
All those curious souls who want to know about why matam is done and logic etc, can refer to 1039 threads on this very subject.Thankyou very much.**
This specific thread is about Muhurram processions and other ritual, performed in pakistan. If you have anything to share, then please do so. 
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
Some things in the Quran are orders, somethings we are encouraged to do and somethings we are not suppose to do and somethings are to learn from. Nowhere in the Quran does it say we should cry our eyes out just like hazrat Yaqoob :as: but it does say we shouldnt harm ourselves.
“…make not your own hands contribute to your destruction…”(Surah al-Baqarah 2:195, );“…nor kill yourselves…” (Surah al-Nisaa 4:29)
002.190 Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not
transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors.(a.yusuf ali)
Secondly, why dont we all break our teeth? After all our prophet was so pleased with it. And there were many great sahabas, we cant even begin to compare ourselves with them. One of (i am sorry i cant remember his name) prayed a thousand rakaat a day of nafl prayers, can any of us do that?
Thirdly, if we really wanna feel what went on, why dont we all go to a desert, remain thirsty for three days, kill our sons, strip hijabs off of our mother and sisters and really get a idea of what went on? What they felt we never can. What bibi zaineb felt you never can! What we really should do is read and appriciate the sacrifices made.
P.S. dont get all worked up about nothing, if its such a trouble to answer questions, please dont!
Sorry Code Red, i just had to reply..i wont ask anything else. Well I have a question about the processions too.
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
when did this start and why?
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
I am no expert. Anyway here is what i know
Tabarruk, and Sabeel are just common offering (food drinks) to the people who came to attend the gathering.
Mannat is like some offering, promised by a person if his prayers are fullfilled.
I will try to dig out more info :)
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
Ok, I blelieve we can learn a lot from the tragedy of Karbala. Here is an extract taken from the same link. If there is any mistake in the following, I request shia brother and sisters to kindly correct them
...................................
Women from the prophet's family play an active role in the battle of
Karbala, they embody various forms of familial love: as a wife, a sister, a
mother, a daughter, a bride. They take on the role of lamenters, sufferers
as they send their husbands and sons to be sacrificed. They act as exemplary
moral guides on whom other women are suppose to model themselves.
I will discuss four prominent women who embody a certain kind of love by
weeping for a particular martyr in the battle of Karbala:
i. The daughter/wife/mother- Bibi Fatima
ii. The sister- Bibi Zainab
iii. The orphaned daughter- Bibi Sakina
iv. The bride- Bibi Kulsum
Abu Abd Allah (i.e. Imam Hussain), peace be upon him, said the following,
"Fatima, peace be upon her: within her is a lamp. Hassan is the lamp within
a glass. Hussain is the glass like unto a glittering star. Fatima is a
'glittering star' among the women of the people of the lower world, a star
that is enkindled from a blessed tree. (Kulyani, cited Pinault 2001, pg. 65)
-Fatima
Kulayni uses the "light verse" from the Quran 24:35 to comment on the role
of Fatima in Shia historical-philosophical thought. She is the source from
which the Imams (leaders) are born. She is the womb that breeds martyrs like
Hassan and Hussain, each collapsing into the other. She is the wife of the
Shia leader Imam Ali, daughter of the prophet Muhummed.
Although dead for almost fifty years before the battle of Karbala and the
martyrdom of her second son Hussain, Fatima is remembered while recalling
the incidents of Karbala. She is believed to descend to earth to grieve for
her son Hussain and is present at every majlis. She is believed to provide
Shafa'ah (healing) to anyone who cries at the injustice done to her son.
There are shrines built and taziyas taken out in her name. Endless
literature has been written on her, from Iqbal's homage to her in his
Persian epic in 1917, Rumuz-I-be-Khudi (Mysteries of Selflessness) to Ali
Schariatis Fatima is Fatima, which appeared during the Islamic revolution in
Iran in 1979. An entire genre known as Fatima's dowry (Jihaznama-I-Fatima),
enumerating her humble dowry, her ability to suffer and continue giving to
the poor. (Schimmel, 2003)
She is the only woman who has and ever will attain the stature of becoming a
prophet. She is counted among the five people who form the nucleus of
Imamat/leadership, the Panjetan. She embodies everything virtuous, of
piety, of a suffering mother, a devoted daughter to the prophet. One who
endured poverty and hardship.
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
"Would that you could bury me too beside my brother!"
-Zainab
Zainab symbolizes defiant in defeat. She and Umme Kulthum were both sisters
of Imam Hussain- present at Karbala and survived the battle, they were later
lead as captives to Yazids court in Damascus. While still a prisoner in
Damascus, she was the first to hold a majlis to mourn Hussain and the first
to begin the tradition of majlis and matham.
"…she who endured every injury and outrage after the martyrdom.
Zaynab safeguarded the goal and aspirations of Hussain,
Zainab made Islam safe from the flames." (Cited Pinault 2001, pg. 82)
With all her male kinfolk dead or too incapacitated to fight, Zainab as the
literature on the incident reveals becomes the spokesperson and the defender
of the prophet's household. After the prophet, Ali his cousin succeeded him
as the religious leader. On Hussain's death his sister Zainab succeeds him,
maybe not as an Islamic leader but as someone who taken on the role of a
protector, safeguarding Islam till the next Imam takes over. Zainul Abedin,
the only son of Hussain to survive the battle of Karbala. Too ill to take
part in the war, Imam Zainul Abedin helplessly couldn't be a part of the 72
martyred. He was brought along with the other prisoners to Kufa, where the
governor Ibn Ziyad ordered to kill him. According to Majlisis' account
Zainab rushes and clasps him in a protective embrace, "By God, I won't let
go of him, she exclaims. "If you're going to kill him, you'll have to kill
me along with him." (Cited Pinault 2001, pg. 73)
How will I lift up your corpse?
My head lacks any veil which I might spread out for you.
Dust of the wasteland covers your body.
Alas! Beloved son of Fatima, O Hussain! (ibid. pg. 77)
De-veiling of the women in captivity is a fact much mourned and regretted,
emphasizing shame as a virtue and hijab as a significant creed in Shia
theological philosophy.
....................................
**She was only fours years of age, alas!
She was imprisoned, and she departed this life;
Weep, yes weep in grief
For how long could this child's spirit, at such a young age,
Endure affliction and tragedy?
Weep, yes weep in grief
-Sakina**
Just as Zainab symbolizes defiance in defeat, and Fatima Zehra passive
endurance through eternity, Sakina becomes emblematic of innocence and
suffering against which the tyranny of Yazid is described. Merely four years
old at the time of the battle, she is starved of food and water like the
rest and eventually dies in captivity in Damascus.
David Pinault quotes one of Majlisi's sermons on Sakina's dream in the
prison that maps the Shia historical trajectory mapping certain women as
signifiers of a larger historical process, also bringing out the
timelessness of Karbala.
The servant then took me by the hand (Majlisis has Sakina report) and led me
into the palace. Within were five women whose appearance had been glorified
by God and whose forms were radiant with divine light. In their midst was
one woman in particular of wondrous appearance: her hair was disheveled; she
was dressed in black garments; in her hand was a tunic stained with blood.
Whenever she stood up, the other women stood with her; when she sat, so did
they.
I said to the servant, "who are these women whose appearance God has
glorified? He replied, "Sakina, this person here is Eve, mother of
humankind; and this is Mary bint 'Imaran [the mother of Jesus Christ]; and
this is Khadija bint Khuwaylid (the Prophet Muhammad's first wife]; and this
is Hagar; and this is Sarah. And this woman here, in whose hands is the
bloodstained shirt, who whenever she stands, the others stand with her, and
whenever she sits, so do the others: why, this is your grandmother, Fatima
the Radiant."
So I drew near and said to her, "Grandmother! By God, my father has been
killed; and even though I'm so young, I've been left an orphan." Then she
hugged me to her breast and she wept bitterly. All the women wept with her
and said to her, "Fatima, may God judge between you and Yazid on Judgement
Day!" (cited Pinault, 2001 pg. 69 )
Majlisi presents Sakina's dream in a manner so as to develop both doctrinal
and liturgical themes. From the beginning of time, starting from Eve,
tracing the prophetic lineage to Mary, mother of Jesus Christ to Khatija,
the wife of the Prophet to Fatima. History is signified through women, who
support the prophetic framework through their familial ties and their
capacity for virtuous love.
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
"Our wedding feast will take place at the Resurrection"
-Fatima Kubra
Fatima Kubra, the bride of Karbala, is one of the disputed figures, for
there is no historical validity of a wedding that took place during the
battle. She is described as an Indian bride, who bids her bridegroom (Imam
Qasim) farewell at their wedding night.
The seventh day of Muhurrum is reserved for Qasim, the nausha-e-Karbala. He
is also one of the most popular figures of Karbala. Qasim is not given
permission for martyrdom by his uncle Hussain. Shortly before the defeat
during the battle, Qasim begs his uncle to allow him to fight, but Hussain
and his mother refuse to let him go.
He remembers an amulet given by his father, who asked him to open it only at
a time of great sorrow and distress. He opens the amulet to find a message
in his father's handwriting asking him to fight with his uncle Hussain in
the desert of Karbala and to become a martyr. Qasim takes the note to his
uncle, and asks his permission once more. Hussain cannot refuse his elder
brothers request. Qasim bids his wife farewell who bravely lets her
bridegroom get martyred.
*Conclusion: *
*"For reasons of faith, the poet must depict the martyrs of Karbala and their
women as ideal beings, and nothing less. Not even a suggestion of fault ,
for example, can be allowed with reference to Hussain and his companions;
his opponents, on the other hand, have to be evil incarnate, with no
exception. Thus, the protagonist in the marsiya are all anonymously ideal." *
(CM Naim, 2004, pg. 16)
But the genre of marsiya emerges from a particular
historical/political/theological trajectory. Its motive is propagational as
much as aesthetic. It gives its believers (as opposed to its readers)
defining markers to build a concept of community, of a common historical
past, of ways of coping with the present.
While signifying historical/political processes that bind individuals within
a community, it also propagates an ideal self for the individuals. This is
not an individuated self, a normativized self entitled to rights, but a
relational, communitarian self.
**The martyrs of Karbala from the literature, do not emerge as individuated
persons but by the role they play within their familial space and within the
larger communitarian space. Imam Hussain dies for the ideals and the values
his grandfather, the Prophet stood for as much he dies in order to protect
Islam and its 'truth'.
Similarly the women of the prophet's family stand for the same ideals. In
fact they become the site for propagating virtues and the moral self. They
act as exemplars for the rest of the community to follow their examples.
The eye weeps as it identifies with the forms of love they embody and the
loss they suffer. And in the act of weeping the relational self gets
appropriated, as it re-affirms its place within the familial space and
within the larger community. As long as such a vision endures, this story
needs to be told.**
Khatam shud
Re: A Study of Muhurrum Processions
[quote]
I don't think cutting the skin on your head with a sword is a natural expression of grief. Needless to say, the USA miliatry kids are freaked out in Iraq after seeing the peaceful processions. Its high time we evaluate our own practices as to exactly how "natural" they are.
[/quote]
PCG, being a shia, I agree with your statement about the evaluation bit. And to be frank I do squirm at the sword hitting (iraqi/lebanese tradition) and zanjeer zani (indo-pak tradition). However alot of people, especially the sunnis see that as the be all and end all of shia commemoration of muharram. It is not. Muharram is so much more. As you know, the visual display of grief in this form, as is the wearing of black and having processions and marches is very very effective in getting a person's attention, especially in asking the question of 'what happened?' or 'why?'. The crying and the matam also helps to deeply personalise the sufferring of Imam Hussayn, his family and his companions. Personalising is the first step in accepting. But the point is to move beyond the visual and to get to the essence of the message of Hussayn (as). The ultimate point is to inform and to educate. btw alot of people think self-flagellation is an atonement for sins, it is not.
Matam, Majalis, re-enactments of the battle on day of Ashura (iranian theatrical tradition) etc all are a way of renewing the allegience to Imam Hussayn's message. To stand against oppression and importantly to never accept a system which could make a person like Yazid the Amirul Mumineen, remembering that it was muslims who were aware of the status of the Imam in the view of the Prophet who slaughtered him. Collectively it is a very powerful political message. On the personal level it should be about spiritual development and introspection for the year passed and the year beginning. Not many people know that for the shias the whole night of 9th and the morning and early afternoon (till Zuhr) of the 10th is passed in reading Salahs and duas and such amaals of worship too. I reckon instead of arguing sunnis shouldn't be afraid of participating in with the shias on Ashura. If hindus in India and other indigenious religious faiths in different countries can join in, I don't understand why sunnis can't. In fact i think it is a good idea for sunnis make an effort to attend shia mosques and pray with shias for 10 days at least. It will do more for unity than anything else.