a REPLY to abdulla's beliefs --- a QUESTION for everyone

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Well actually this is in reply to Abdullah’s previous post, but its a question for everyone, I invite all of you to shed some light on it. These are your fundamental dogmas, how can you escape your concept of Mehdi from that?

***************

Please allow me to present the verse, which says who to believe in.
Allah says in Al-Nisa, verse 137,

These are your fundamental beliefs. Out of these principles quoted above, only one refers to man, and that is Prophets. So among men, except for the prophets, the Holy Quran does not make it incumbent on you to believe in any man (even imams) but only the prophets are for us to believe in, otherwise we will become kafirs.

Dear Abdullah and my other brother Muslims, I want to know what type of hypocritic personalities you are?. When I raised the same issue in respect to Imam Mehdi, you along with others denied and cursed me with all your heart and soul and referred a long list of Quranic verses.

Can you tell me how will you define your Imam Mehdi? If according to you we should not believe in anyone else among humans except Prophets then why you and your Ulemas declare that believe in him is MUST and denier of Imam Mehdi is a KAFIR??? Your argument clearly indicates that an Imam Mehdi will be a Prophet and nothing less otherwise its useless to believe in him.

And the verses I presented earlier in my posts i.e

These verses clearly forecasts the continuity of Prophets and rejects the concept of Mohammed as the last in the line of Prophets and supports the concept of Imam Mehdi being a Prophet.

When I presented these verses, you remain speechless and make lame excuses like they are not from our scholar’s translation and so on. All this is because you believe that you are not from the progeny of Adam, and this weak verse doesn’t carry any message for you. Thus denying Imam Mehdi’s prophetic nature and degrading him as an ordinary human. How silly of you.

It is very sad to see that even if the whole Quran is presented in front of you, you will certainly reject it just because you don’t want to give up your false concept of KHATAM as “the last in the line of Prophets” and you can deny anything, even God on this basis. YET YOU PEOPLE STILL FAIL AND WILL FAIL TO PROOVE THIS CONCEPT FROM QURAN – aztagfarullah. There is no verse in the whole Quran which supports this concept. And brother JEWELS has proved all these concepts in the light of your authentic Ahadiths too.

Most of your statements are flip flop ones and reject your own convictions. So next time if you ever CUT & PASTE anything please go through it first before you cough-up something unappetizing.

Allah says; ** Give to the hypocrites the tidings that for them is a grievous punishment. ** [04:139]

I wish you all the best !

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I doubt abdullah will reply to it. He will just do what he has been doing. run away for now, because he is pointless. then he will come back and argue on the same very point.

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Zalim,

You said,

"If according to you we should not believe in anyone else among humans except Prophets then why you and your Ulemas declare that believe in him is MUST and denier of Imam Mehdi is a KAFIR??? Your argument clearly indicates that an Imam Mehdi will be a Prophet and nothing less otherwise its useless to believe in him."

When has any Sunni scholar said that Imam Mehdi will be a NEW prophet succeeding and improving on the blessed Hazrat Muhammed Sall allahu alaihi wasallam?

Would Imam Mehdi really have sent his people to fight alongside pork consuming British who rejected Allah (SWT) and his messenger, against muslims who believed in Allah and the Last Day?

You said

"36: 0 children of Adam, -if Messengers come to you from among yourselves, rehearsing My Signs unto you, then whoso shall fear God and do good deeds, on them shall come no fear nor shall they grieve.
37. But those who reject Our Signs and turn away from them with disdain, -these shall be the inmates of the Fire; they shall abide therein. [36 & 37: Al-Araf]

These verses clearly forecasts the continuity of Prophets and rejects the concept of Mohammed as the last in the line of Prophets and supports the concept of Imam Mehdi being a Prophet."

This verse refers to those who rejected Muhammed (SAW) and those messengers who came before him. Not the imposters who were to come afterwards claiming prophethood despite all the evidence in both Qur'an and Sunnah that there will be no prophet after Muhammed(SAW).

Stop quoting Qur'an and Hadith selectively. Look at the overall picture and the many ayats and hadiths which flatly go against what you say without a shadow of a doubt.

As I have told you before I am not prepared to get bogged down in useless debates over twisting the meanings of the ayats and hadiths. There are better ways of dealing with this. It's up to you. Leave it now and I won't pursue it, otherwise you will be exposed once again for the Zindeeq fitna baaz that you are.

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--- ** saying: **
* When has any Sunni scholar said that Imam Mehdi will be a NEW prophet succeeding and improving on the blessed Hazrat Muhammed Sall allahu alaihi wasallam? *

--- ** reply: **
When has Hazrat Mirza ghulam ahmad, peace be upon him, said that he is a NEW prophet succeeding and improving on the blessed Hazrat Muhammad, sallallahu aliahi wassalam?

--- ** saying: **
* Would Imam Mehdi really have sent his people to fight alongside pork consuming British who rejected Allah (SWT) and his messenger, against muslims who believed in Allah and the Last Day? *

--- ** reply: **
Which neutral book of history has recorded it? You started a thread claiming that Mirza sahab is a british agent, and i ** CLEARLY ** proved infront of everybody, that by your method, most of your own pious sunni scholars, including some mujaddads, and mufti's of makkah, also become the british agent. I also uncovered you mis-quote, and told the actual context, but you were extremely shameless, and refused to apologize for misquoting. fear god, and be shameful. lie and truth dont go hand in hand. truth doesnt need lies to defend itself. your clearly proven lies have long ago uncovered your beliefs.

-------------> ** The clear verse of koran: **

Critic has stated:
* This verse refers to those who rejected Muhammed (SAW) and those messengers who came before him. *

--- ** reply: **

-> ** POINT 1: **

How is it possible my friend? If you reread the verse from the koran, you will find out the words ** * imma yateyannakum rusulumminkum ** * Which is clearly future tense. If it regards to previous prophets, why has ** FUTURE ** tense been used? if the verse related to messengers BEFORE prophet mohammad, then PAST tense shouldve been used, however, ** FUTURE ** tense has been used.
Do you know more arabic than allah??
fear god! dont make such illogical claims.

-> *POINT 2 *

Also note that in the whole chapter, al-airaf, God has addressed ** MUSLIMS ** as "children of adam", for example:
* " O children of adam, take your adornment at every mosque" *
(from verse 32)
All muslims already believe in the Prophet Mohammad, peace and blessings of allah be upon him, and all the previous prophets, peace be upon them. Then what is the significance of this verse? this verse only holds when it tells of prophets coming ** AFTER ** prophet Mohammad, peace and blessings of allah be upon him, as is evident by the future tense.

Now the truth is crystal clear. If anyone thinks this verse is not talking about muslims, and not talking about prophets coming in ** FUTURE ** then they can pick up the koran and read the verse. It will automatically become evident!

[This message has been edited by jewels of insignificance (edited May 31, 1999).]

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“O people ! Muhammad has no sons among ye men, but verily, he is the Apostle of God and the last in the line of Prophets. And God is Aware of everything.” (Surah Al Ahzab: 40)

•The Holy Prophet (PBUH) observed: “The tribe of Israel was guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another prophet succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; only caliphs will succeed me.” (Bukhari, Kitab-ul-Manaqib).

•The Prophet of God (PBUH) affirmed: "My position in relation to the prophets who came before me can be explained by the following example:

A man erected a building and adorned this edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche, in the corner where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marvelled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche? I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in the line of the Prophets." (Bukhari, Kitab-ul-Manaqib).

(In other words, with the advent of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) the edifice of Prophethood has been completed and there is no empty niche in this edifice to provide room for another prophet.)

Four traditions relating to this subject are recorded, in Muslim, Kitab-ul-Fada’il, Babu Khatimin-Nabiyyin. The latter tradition contains the following additional sentence. “So I came and in me the line of Prophets has ended.”

The very same tradition in similar words has been reported in Tirmidhi, Kitab-ul-Manaqib, Bab-Fadlin Nabi and Kitab-Adab, Bab-ul-Amthal. In Musnad Abu Dawud Tayalisi this tradition has been incorporated among other traditions reported by Jabir bin Abdullah; and its last sentence reads, “It is in me that line of Prophets came to its final end.”

Musnad Ahmad contains traditions reported by Hadrat Ubayyi bin Ka’b, Hadrat Abu Sa’id Khudri and Hadrat Abu Huraira(may Allah be pleased with them) on the same subject with a slight variation of words here and there.

•The Holy Prophet (PBUH) observed: "God has bestowed upon me six favors which the former Prophets did not enjoy:
•I have been endowed with the gift of pithy and perfect speech. •I was granted victory owing to my awe. •The spoils of war were made lawful unto me. •The whole earth has been made the place of worship for me and it has become the means of purification for me also. In other words in my religion, offering of prayers is not confined to certain specified places of worship. Prayers can be offered at any place over the earth. And in case water is not available it is lawful for my people to perform ablutions with earth(Tayammum) and to cleanse themselves with the soil if water for bathing is scarce. •I have been sent by Allah to carry His Divine message to the whole world. •And the line of prophets has come to its final end in me.

(Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah)

•The Prophet of Allah (PBUH) affirmed: “The chain of Messengers and Prophets has come to an end. There shall be no Messenger nor Prophet after me.” (Tirmidhi, Kitab-ur-Rouya Babu Zahab-un- Nubuwwa, Musnad Ahmad, Marwiyat-Anas bin Malik)

•The Holy Prophet (PBUH) observed: “I am Muhammad, I am Ahmad, I am the effacer and infidelity shall be erased through me; I am the assembler. People shall be assembled on Doomsday after my time. (In other words Doom is my only successor.) And I am the last in the sense that no prophet shall succeed me.” (Bukhari and Muslim, Kitab-ul-Fada’il, Bab: Asmaun-Nabi; Tirmidhi, Kitab-ul- Adab, Bab: Asma-un-Nabi; Muatta’, Kitab-u-Asma in-Nabi, Al- Mustadrak Hakim, Kitab-ut-Tarikh, Bab: Asma-un-Nabi.)

•The Prophet of God (PBUH) observed: “God Almighty hath sent unto the world no apostle who did not warn his people about the appearance of Dajjal( Anti-Christ, but Dajjal did not appear in their time). I am the last in the line of Prophets and ye are the last community of believers. Without doubt,then, Dajjal shall appear from amongst ye”. (Ibn Majah, Kitabul-fitan, bab

http://www.pak.org/gupshup/biggrin.gif

ajjal).

•‘Abdur Rahman bin Jubair reported: “I heard Abdullah bin ‘Amr ibn-‘As narrating that one day the Holy Prophet (PBUH) came out of his house and joined our company. His manner gave us the impression as if he were leaving us.’ He said, ‘I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah’ and repeated this statement three times. Then he affirmed: "There will be no prophet after me’.”(Musnad Ahmad, Marwiyat’Abdullah bin Amr ibn’-As.)

•The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Allah will send no Apostle after me, but only Mubashshirat. It was said: what is meant by al-Mubashshirat. He said : Good vision or pious vision”. (Musnad Ahmad, Marwiyat Abu Tufail, Nasa’i, Abu Dawud) (In other words there is no possibility of Divine revelation in future. At the most if some one receives an inspiration from Allah he will receive it in the form of “pious dream.”

•The Holy Prophet (PBUH) said: “If an Apostle were to succeed me, it would have been 'Umar bin Khattab.” (Tirmidhi,Kitab-ul- Manaqib)

•Thauban reports: “The Holy Prophet (PBUH) observed: And there will arise Thirty imposters in my Ummah and each one of them will pronounce to the world that he is a prophet, but I am the last in the line of the Prophets of God and no Apostle will come after me.” (Abu Dawud, Kitab-ul-Fitan)

Abu Dawud in ‘Kitab-ul-Malahim’ has recorded another tradition reported by Abu Huraira in the same subject. Tirmidhi has also recorded these two traditions as reported by Hadrat Thauban and Hadrat Abu Huraira. The text of the second tradition runs thus: “It will come to this that thirty imposters will arise and each one of them will put forth his claim to be the Apostle of God.”

•The Holy Prophet (PBUH) observed: “Among the tribe of Israel who went before you there indeed were such people who held communion with God, even though they were not his Prophets. If ever there arose a person from among my people who would hold communion with God, it would be none else but 'Umar (May Allah be pleased with him).” (Bukhari, Kitab-ul-Manaqib)

A version of this same tradition in Muslim' contains Muhaddithuna instead of Yukallimuna. But then Mukalima and Muhaddith bear identical meaning i.e., a man enjoys the privilege of holding direct communion with God or a person who is addressed by the Almighty from the unseen. Thus we conclude that if there had been any person among the followers of Muhammad who could hold communion with God without being raised to the dignity of prophethood, it would have been Umar.

•The Prophet of God (PBUH) said: “No Prophet will come after me and there will, therefore, be no other community of followers of any new prophet.” (Baihaqi,Kitab-ul Rouya; Tabarani)

May the peace and blessings of Allah SWT be upon the LAST Prophet Mohammed Ibn Abdulla. I am speechless in front of the above Quranic Ayat and the hadiths of Prophet SAW, as i cannot explain it better.

Regarding the Imam Mehdi issue, a simple question, do you consider the masjid Imam also a Prophet ??

I hope you will say No, if yes, then why Imam Mehdi has to be a Prophet?

The Holy Prophet (PBUH) observed: “The tribe of Israel was guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another prophet succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; only caliphs will succeed me.” (Bukhari, Kitab-ul-Manaqib).

As per the above hadith only Khulafa will succeed Prophet SAW, so just like Hazrat Abu Bakr RAA, just like Hazrat Umer RAA, just like Hazrat Usman RAA, just like Hazrat Ali RAA, etc.., Imam Mehdi will also be a pious Khalifa of Muslims and not a Prophet.

04: O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and his Messenger, and in the Book which He has revealed to His Messenger, and the Book which he revealed before it. And whoso disbelieve in Allah and His Angles, and His Books, and His Messengers, and the Last day, has surely strayed forever. [04:137]

As a Muslim Alhamdolillah my believe is perfectly according to the above ayat, i do believe in Allah SWT and Prophet SAW (and what ever he said) and in Quran and all the books before Quran sent by Allah SWT and in Angels, and all the messangers before Prophet SAW and Qayamah.

I do believe in Prophet SAW and as he said No Prophet after him and Mehdi will not be a Prophet, So THAT IS IT.

And Allah SWT knows best.

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Bismihi Ta’la (In the name of the Most High)
Assalam o alaikum …

insha 'Allah every one is back safe and sound from the rather long weekend … While there is a lot to catch up, let me state this to those who deny the role of a leader (imam) in the very lives. The Qur’an states, in Sura al Nisa,

Also in another instance, the noble book says:

Little can be said, if asked as to who are those “vested with authority”, since this was a matter that was sacrificed at the altar of political expediency.

Iltimase duas

Ali Abbas
www.al-islam.org

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Dear abdullah,
sawaal gandum, jawaab chana!

abdullah has again FAILED completely to reply to the real point, and has now started talking about other points.

If you have courage, talk about the point which was originally being dicussed!

It is a normality with you molvis that you people just wander around pointless and logicless!

The end result of the discussion is that abdullah has lost the discussion, and was unable to defend the points we made, and therefore, in confusion, posted a new essay here, which he hasnt even written himself.

Very sorry abdullah. work hard next time.

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::::: REPLY TO Mr. Xtremely Xtreem :::::

Jewels has given you an excellent answer, I can’t add anything to it. For an intellectual person that’s more than enough. But if you are expecting a word from my side, I will try to reply other points of yours.

• Xtreme says::: “...When has any Sunni scholar said that Imam Mehdi will be a NEW prophet succeeding and improving on the blessed Hazrat Muhammed Sall allahu alaihi wasallam?”

First, Succeeding and Improving is not my vocabulary, its all in your head for us which spills out periodically. we NEITHER used such words NOR try to impose such thoughts. Its the hatred you carry in your heart compose such discords. By the way our words in this reference are REVIVE and REHEARSE the lost faith.

Secondly, I apologize for exaggerating the statement. But in view of these two statements, viz;
a. SUNNI’s Statement : No where in QURAN or in SUNNAH of Prophet SAW it is mentioned to follow “IMAMS”.
b. ALLAH’s Statement: v. [04:137], i.e belief in Allah and His Angles, and His Books, and His Messengers, and the Last day.
Please tell me, (considering yourself neutral), what will be your inference in view of both these points??

The only possible intellectual thought that comes to mind is that the promised human will be that of a PROPHETIC NATURE otherwise he will be an imposter.

• Xtreme says::: “...This verse refers to those who rejected Muhammed (SAW) and those messengers who came before him.”

Well Sir, JEWELS has given you a perfect reply for that. The verse has a future form of address. If you can spare some time go the nearest library or Mosque, get the Quran and try to read the verse by yourself. For now, let me repaste the translations from your Qurans.

[quote]

::: Translation of verse **007.035* by;*

YUSUFALI: O ye Children of Adam! whenever there come to you messengers from amongst you, rehearsing My signs unto you,- those who are righteous and mend (their lives),- on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve.

PICKTHAL: O Children of Adam! **When messengers of your own come unto **you who narrate unto you My revelations, then whosoever refraineth from evil and amendeth - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

SHAKIR: O children of Adam! if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My communications, then whoever shall guard (against evil) and act aright-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

Nobel’Quran: O Children of Adam! If there come to you Messengers from amongst you, reciting to you, My Verses, then whosoever becomes pious and righteous, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

[/quote]

• Xtreme says::: “...Stop quoting Qur'an and Hadith selectively. Look at the overall picture and the many ayats and hadiths which flatly go against what you say without a shadow of a doubt.”

Look who’s talking !, Sir, which verse have you ever debated with a broad look? The answer is NONE, ...even the verse of KHATAM UN NABEYEEN doesn’t fit with the corresponding verses when translated in your way.

• Xtreme says::: “...despite all the evidence in both Qur'an and Sunnah that there will be no prophet after Muhammed(SAW)”.

Mr XTREEEEEMEEEE, PLEASE ! JUST WRITE DOWN ONE REFERENCE FROM QURAN IN SUPPORT OF YOUR STATEMENT..... I WILL REVERT TO YOUR ISLAM AT THE SAME MOMENT

• Xtreme says::: “...Leave it now and I won't pursue it, otherwise you will be exposed once again for the Zindeeq fitna baaz that you are.

My dear ! don’t threaten us with such humbucks, we don’t care for such narcissistic attitudes.. beside I dont have those books which you usually refer to validate them and the Mosque from my place is around 40 miles away. So if you really want to confirm those quotes then please refer all the quotes from “ONE VOLUME” at a time. I can’t borrow all those books at one go. And if possible, let me know your email and I will scan it for you.

If you want to debate, first of all be precise to the topic. I wont reply next time.

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited June 03, 1999).]

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::::: REPLY TO Abdullah

Well Sir, this is not the topic of the thread, I asked you about the STATUS OF IMAM MEHDI and in reply you quoted list of Ahadiths pertaining to KHATAM’UL AMBIYA. Thereby showing that you have nothing else beside this loose concept of LAST IN THE LINE, and your whole life revolves around this.

Since you have quoted the words of our beloved Prophet(sa), It will be inappropriate for me to remain silent. Though I will not reply to all those Ahadiths in which you have used the word “LAST IN THE LINE” because these Ahadiths were originally written in Arabic and this meaning is merely your translation, thus making it a controversial and never-ending issue. Wait, I’ll reply for this on a separate thread.

For now, all those quotes which pertain to Imam Mehdi are answered below.

I know, you will not go through this because of your self-esteem or stubbornness or whatever, but there are many other silent readers around the world who are interested in this form of speech.

Abdullah says :::: “•The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: **"Allah will send no Apostle after me, but only MUBASHSHIRAT. It was said: what is meant by al-Mubashshirat. He said : Good vision or pious vision". (Musnad Ahmad, Marwiyat Abu Tufail, Nasa'i, Abu Dawud).

If hadith forecasts the coming of a Mubashir, then we have to look in the Quran, what that Mubashir could be. Because any Hadith contradicting Quran are considered “suppositious”

Now what I’am able to found in Quran is that the word Mubashir/Bashir has been used in Quran to address Prophets only, and no one else. some examples are as follows;

[Mubashir: 33:46 & Bashir: 2:120, 35:25, 12:97] (Mubashir is a superlative form of Bashir, as Munzir and Nazir which are also used for prophets)

I am sorry to say that I can’t change my opinion on this quote of yours.
And Sir, for your kind information, Dreams is not the only mode of communication with God. There are other means like “Kashfs”, “Royas” etc. which still exists.

*Abdullah says :::: “Regarding the Imam Mehdi issue, a simple question, do you consider the masjid Imam also a Prophet ?? I hope you will say No, if yes, then why Imam Mehdi has to be a Prophet? *

To rephrase your question, I would like to ask, if Imam Mehdi will be an ordinary man, then why there is so much emphasis on his acceptance. Why will he receive revelations and why will he be appointed by Allah. Perhaps these are the qualities of Prophets only, Can you quote anything??

Does the imam of Masjid receive such things?

**Abdullah says :::: “The Holy Prophet (PBUH) observed: "The tribe of Israel was guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another prophet succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; only caliphs will succeed me." (Bukhari, Kitab-ul-Manaqib).

As per the above hadith only Khulafa will succeed Prophet SAW, so just like Hazrat Abu Bakr RAA, just like Hazrat Umer RAA, just like Hazrat Usman RAA, just like Hazrat Ali RAA, etc.., Imam Mehdi will also be a pious Khalifa of Muslims and not a Prophet.**

Well I repeat, Do all these khulafas received revelations? were they all claim to be appointed be Allah? well if so then to me, they would also be labeled as Prophets, because that’s the quality of Prophets that they were appointed by Allah and they receive revelations.

I am not sure about your Imam Mehdi, Will he receive any revelation. Will he be appointed by general election?

Abdullah says :::: “As a Muslim Alhamdolillah my believe is perfectly according to the above ayat ...[04:137]”

In respect to this verse [04:137], again my question is, what will be the status of your Imam Mehdi?. The inference seams to be that he will be an ordinary man and believing in him is not compulsory or mandatory, because the Quran has given the guidelines for whom to believe in.

Abdullah says :::: “...I am speechless in front of the above Quranic Ayat and the hadiths of Prophet SAW, as i cannot explain it better.”

Well sir to make you further speechless, here are some more Ahadiths to ponder.

** • "O YE MUSLIMS THE PRESENT PROPHETHOOD PERIOD AMONGST YOU WILL LAST AS LONG AS ALLAH WILLS. ON ITS CONCLUSION THERE WILL BE A PERIOD OF 'KHILAAFAT 'ALAA MINHAAJIN NABUWWAT' (KHILAAFAT ON THE DESIGN, PATTERN AND SUCCESSION OF PROPHETHOOD; I.E. IN CONTINUATION OF THE PROPHET'S MISSION). THIS KHILAAFAT WILL BE FOLLOWED BY A SUCCESSION OF KINGSHIP, WHICH WILL BE FOLLOWED BY DICTATORIAL REGIMES OF TYRRANY AND OPPRESSION, WHICH WILL BE FOLLOWED BY NON-DEMOCRATIC REGIMES. ON ITS CONCLUSION THERE WILL THEN BEGIN A SECOND SPELL OF REAL KHILAFAT ON THE PATTERN OF THE INITIAL ISLAMIC PERIOD."**
(Masnad Ahmad, vol. 5, p. 404)

One cannot help remaining flabbergasted at the precise nature of the descriptions that the Prophet (pbuh) gave about future events, as if he were in our midst today, seeing what is going on with his Ummah. The prediction that after a long break during which will appear the kings, dictators and other non-democratic "regimes", there will resume a Khilafat on the pattern of the first "Khilaafat 'alaa Minhaajin Nabuwwat" clearly indicates that the Prophet (pbuh) not only left open the door for other prophets to come in the future, but knew for certain that this would happen. The fourteen centuries after the Prophet (pbuh) have evinced the fulfilment of all the above conditions, including resumption of Khilafat on the pattern of prophethood (I leave you to decide whether this resumption was genuine or not, based on references). A Hadith of "Mishqaat" includes an insertion in Hadith indicating or clarifying that the reference of the second "prophet-based" Khilafat was indeed to the future advent of the Messiah.

Similarly, Hazrat Abu Huraira reported that the Prophet (pbuh) referred to the fact that there would be no prophet between him and the Messiah:
** • “LAISA BAINEE WA BAINAHU NABIYYUN”, that there is no prophet between me and him. **

This does not in any way exclude the Messiah himself from prophethood, nor does it close the channel for further prophets after the Messiah. Interesting, isn't it?

Hazrat Ayesha Al Siddeeqah’s(ra);
"QOOLOO INNAHU KHATAMUL ANBIYAA'I WA LAA TAQOOLOO LAA NABIYYA BA'DAHU"
** • "Say he is 'seal of prophets' but do NOT say 'there is no prophet after him' " **
(Takmilah Majma'ul Bihaar, p. 85)

Thus showing that the promised Mehdi will not be out of Prophet Hood.

Let me get back with more hadiths on this subject.

There are number of examples in support of the continuity verdict, but for the sake of specificity of the topic I have not including them here. I will present them on related threads.

One with a pure heart needs not abundance of miracles
One sign is enough if there is in the heart, a fear of God.

If you want to answer, then please stick precisely to the topic. Don’t wander around.

10

::::: REPLY TO Ali Abbas :::::

** • :::: In reply to the first verse**

Abbas Ali, thankyou for telling me this verse. At first look, I thought that I have to change my opinion but after deep study I concluded the following interpretation.

O ye who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you (Uli al amr). If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the last day: that is best, and most suitable for final determination. (4:59)

[quote]

“Oulil amr”(those in authority) is made up of two word;
(1)** “Ouli”which is originally “Oulua” meaning, possessors of or possessing or having; and
(2) “Amr”** meaning, rule, authority, command, affair or matter, etc.

“Oulil amr” means:
(1)** those who possess or hold authority, command or rule ; and**
(2)** the learned one who, as it were, possess authority in knowledge**

(From the Lexicons of Taj & Aqrab).

[/quote]

The word “obey” which has repeated before the words “Allah” and “Messenger” has been omitted before the words, “those who are in authority”, in order to point out that obedience to the authority properly constituted by Law is in reality obedience to God and His Messenger.

The clause, “refer it to Allah and His Messenger”, means that in case of difference the matter should be referred to the Quran and the authentic Sunna and Hadith of the Holy Prophet. The injunction may either relate to differences between the ruler and the ruled or to those among the ruled themselves. In the former case the significance is that if there is a matter on which disagreement arises between the rulers and the ruled, it should be decided in the light of the Quranic teaching, or failing that, in that of the authentic Sunna and Hadith. If, however, the Quran, the Sunna and Hadith are silent on the question, it should be left in the hands of those in whom is vested the authority to manage the affairs of Muslims; and the latter are enjoined to abide by their decision even if they do not see eye to eye with them, because true obedience consists in obeying against one's will and judgement.

The words, “refer it to Allah and His Messenger”, may also mean that in case of a difference between the people and those in authority, the former are enjoined to do as Allah and His Messenger have bidden them do on such occasions, i.e., that in such a case they should obey those in authority.

Primarily, however, the words, “if you differ”, do not refer to any differences between the rulers and the ruled but to disagreements arising among the ruled themselves. In this case the injunction embodied in the verse is that in matters pertaining to discipline and administration Muslims should obey those in authority, but in disputes and differences regarding social matters, etc. they should be guided by the Law of Islam and not by other laws. This is the interpretation which “Ibn Kathir” has adopted and which is in keeping with the context.

In the light of above debate, this verse however does not in any sense carry theme of Imam Mehdi.

In fact there is lot more that can be said about those "vested with authority". Certainly it is now more a religo-political matter, that’s why Allah didn’t mention the word OBEY before them.

** • :::: In reply to the second verse**

I am still not sure what do you mean by presenting this verse. How this supports the concept of IMAM caring our fate at the judgement day. Anyhow I am presenting some verses and will leave it to you to interpret the message.

[quote]

(al Isra, 17:71)[From the Noble Quran]
(And remember) the Day when We shall call together all human beings with their (respective) Imâm [their Prophets, or their records of good and bad deeds, or their Holy Books like the Qur'ân, the Taurât (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), etc.]. So whosoever is given his record in his right hand, such will read their records, and they will not be dealt with unjustly in the least.

[/quote]

The word “imama” (Leader) here means a spiritual Leader or a Prophet. On the Day of Judgement every people will be summoned along with their Prophet, for he will have to render an account of how he discharged his divine Mission and how his people received and treated his Message. (Bukari, Kitab al-Tafsir).

::: REFERCENCE VERSES with bismillah as first verse :::]

CH. 4, AL-NISA
42. And how will it fare with them when We shall bring a witness from every people, and shall bring thee as a witness against these.
43. On that day at hose who disbelieved and disobeyed the Messenger will wish that the earth were made level with them, and they shall not be able to conceal anything from Allah.

Every Prophet will bear witness on the Day of Judgement against or concerning those to whom be was sent as a Messenger. The word (these) includes both believers and disbelievers, the nature of evidence being different in different cases.

CH. 16 ,AL-NAHL
85. And remember the day when We shall raise up a witness from every people, then those who disbelieve shall not be permitted to make amends, nor shall they be allowed to solicit God's favor

After mentioning the ingratitude and iniquities of disbelievers in the preceding verses, the present verse again reverts to the subject of the life after death. The fact that all the peoples who ever lived on this earth will be present to see their humiliation on the Day of Judgement will intensify their shame and agony. All the Prophets will also be there to bear witness against them. The verse constitutes yet one more testimony to the truth, of the Quran. It says that Messengers were sent to all peoples and nations of the world.

CH. 16 ,AL-NAHL
90. And remember the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from amongst themselves, and We will bring thee as a witness against these. And We have sent down to thee the Book to explain everything, and a guidance, and a mercy, and glad tidings to those who submit to God.

This verse brings to completion the theme of the preceding verses and purports to say that when on the Day of Judgement various Prophets will present their own examples to establish the guilt of disbelievers, the Holy Prophet also will be presented as a witness against the latter. The verse then proceeds to describe the eminent qualities of the Quran and says that it contains an exposition of all the spiritual needs of man and of the means which attract the Grace and Mercy of God.

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited June 03, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited June 03, 1999).]

11

Mr Zalim says

Though I will not reply to all those ahadiths in which you have used the word
“LAST IN THE LINE” because these Ahadiths were originally written in Arabic and this meaning is merely your translation, thus making it a controversial........

Yet in a reply to Ali Abbas he shamelessly quotes a hadith written originally in arabic to prove his point. That hadith is,

On the Day of Judgement every people will be summoned along with their Prophet, for he will have to render an account of how he discharged his divine Mission and how his people received and treated his Message. (Bukari, Kitab al-Tafsir).

On top of that he accusses us of hypocrisy.

what type of hypocritic personalities you are?

Please ask yourself the same question Mr. Zalim before accusing others of things that you commit as well.

[This message has been edited by iqadeer (edited June 03, 1999).]

12

Qadeer bahi, salam

I didnt get your point. can you please rephrase it.

Bahi meray , First of all thats not a hadith secondly in support of this statement I have written a verse from Quran (see my last reference) hopefully yu will get the idea.

One more thing, the Sahi's of Bukhari is not written by me nor I have translated it. Please also go through the translation of verse (al Isra, 17:71) quoted from the Nobel Quran.

And by the way, in the opening of thread I asked all of you to present the STATUS of your MEHDI in the light of QURAN. (and sunnah, seperately) If you can please do so.

shukerya

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited June 03, 1999).]