Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
roadrunner, the analogy was in the clerics perspective.
and it is meat* not meet.
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
^ you know there are mental patients, in the world that don't have the ability to reason (we have some posting in this thread lol). We call them 'psychopaths' and 'maniacs', a rapist can easily fit into that category. Try that with the lion analogy.
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
Now extend this thought process further. The mental patients are to blame for the crime they commit, not the victim. If a mental patient goes and stabs an innocent man, then this is the fault of the mental patient, NOT the innocent man!!
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
^ thats a totally different case.
You can make that into a case where someone has a grudge against someone, and since they're a bit mentally loose, they go and kill the person they had a disagreement with.
See how the 'grudge' acts as a triggering mechanism that makes the man commit the crime.
No doubt he committed the crime and is guilty of it, but taking this back to the rapist, if a girl is dressed in a way, where shez acting as a sex beacon, then part of the blame will go on her too. Logically it does, forget islam for a bit.
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
This conversation is getting ridicilous....
All that it boils down to is that Man has control over his actions and is responsible for his actions....
Even if he sees a women is naked, that does not give that man the right to touch her without her consent
If he does, its violating her rights and its sexual harrassment....
This anaology about the meat is ridicilous because that Imam generalized that all men are untamed animals and will lunge at the first sight of a naked woman
That is ridicilous because most if not all men have brains and can diffrenciate between right and wrong...
So its not the woman's fault she is being raped its the man for failing to deduce between right and wrong and failing to understand the ramifications of his actions
I have been to nude beaches in Australia, Holland, and England and I have never been inclined to rape another woman because I see her naked....
The Imam was wrong, and his anaolgy was stupid.......
Case Closed...
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
thank you!
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
Why?, do you need Wahis or Ilhaams to live your daily lives.
Do you need a Wahi to figure out not to touch the pot when its hot.
Do you need Ilhaam to help an old lady corssing the road??
No you dont, you use your brain.
God has given us brains and made us capable of picking right from wrong.
We are humans not animals ( the statment may not be true for some inviduals in this thread but nonetheless)
He has given every creature a brain, animals and humans.
However animals use their brains for survival.
They kill to survive and they dont get sent to prison for it.
They have sex with whoever and whenever
Thats not considered as wrong.
Why because they are only capable of surviving, not understand the way of life.
Whereas humans not only have brains but are capable of making decisions that distinguish right from wrong.
If we kill, we go to jail.
If we steal, thats not survival, thats a crime.
Now unless you are telling me that you are incapable of putting your brain that God has given you for every day isntances, i wouldnt know why you’d be needing Ilhaams and Wahis.
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
You can make that into a case where someone has a grudge against someone, and since they're a bit mentally loose, they go and kill the person they had a disagreement with.
See how the 'grudge' acts as a triggering mechanism that makes the man commit the crime.
No doubt he committed the crime and is guilty of it, but taking this back to the rapist, if a girl is dressed in a way, where shez acting as a sex beacon, then part of the blame will go on her too. Logically it does, forget islam for a bit.
No it does not fall back on the girl for acting as a sex beacon. Sometimes a girl who is dressed modestly and attractively will end up being raped..nothing to do with her, it's the way she is. She cannot change her looks. Saying that if a woman looks attractive, she shares part of the blame for being raped is ridiculous. It's like saying if someone is coloured, they share part of the blame for being racially abused. One cannot help what race one is, or a woman cannot help looking attractive if she is.
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
^ no doubt there are women who get raped without being seductive. And thats not their fault. Shez done everything to prevent it.
But when a women exposes herself to trigger someone to rape her, is something the women initiated herself, the rape is wrong, the man has chosen wrong, but the women for triggering the rape is also wrong, isn't she?!
If one cannot take the preventive measures, then she shares the blame.
Now understand this analogy correctly, its the last one i'll give.
If a man has a house and he locks it up, and goes on vacation, a robber comes in, and steals things, thats what we can compare to the first point i made. Preventive measures were taken but the robbery still happened.
Whose to blame? The ROBBER. PERIOD.
Now imagine if the owner left everything open, door windows everything, and goes on vacation, the brobber steals things from the house. Who is to blame? the Robber, And the owner for letting his doors open. He could have prevented that robbery.
Case closed. You guys need to stop prancing around "rape is wrong". the whole wolrd knows that. Try to understand the analogy in discussion.
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
Now imagine if the owner left everything open, door windows everything, and goes on vacation, the brobber steals things from the house. Who is to blame? the Robber, And the owner for letting his doors open. He could have prevented that robbery.
Case closed. You guys need to stop prancing around "rape is wrong". the whole wolrd knows that. Try to understand the analogy in discussion.
aye but you forget, shariah law would go after the thief and not the owner. the owner was careless and stupid, but shariah or any other law would not hold the owner responsible for the burglary or leaving the house unlocked. So there goes the 'sharing the blame' theory.
besides, when folks go on vacation, even the most secure houses are vulnerable to burglary... so your analogy doesnt really apply.
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
But when a women exposes herself to trigger someone to rape her, is something the women initiated herself, the rape is wrong, the man has chosen wrong, but the women for triggering the rape is also wrong, isn't she?!
Everything boils down to sex with you, doesn't it? Most rapes do NOT occur due to some sort of sexual appeal by the rapist. Only a handful of cases does this occue in the way you seem to classify all rapes as.
[quote]
If one cannot take the preventive measures, then she shares the blame.
Now understand this analogy correctly, its the last one i'll give.
If a man has a house and he locks it up, and goes on vacation, a robber comes in, and steals things, thats what we can compare to the first point i made. Preventive measures were taken but the robbery still happened.
Whose to blame? The ROBBER. PERIOD.
[/quote]
The robber is to blame because the house was locked and he broke in. Now you think when a woman gets raped, she let's the rapist do it? Of course she fights back and tries to prevent the rape. If the lock isnt good enough for the house, the physical strength of the woman isn't good enough to fight off the robber. But under neither instance is it is the fault of the owner of the house that was robbed, or that of the woman who's been raped, but the thief and the rapist totally.
[quote]
Now imagine if the owner left everything open, door windows everything, and goes on vacation, the brobber steals things from the house. Who is to blame? the Robber, And the owner for letting his doors open. He could have prevented that robbery.
[/quote]
This analogy is stupid. If the owner of the house leaves everything open and unlocked, then it's his fault. If the woman let's the man rape her, then it's consensual. It is her fault for having sex, and it is the owners fault for not locking anything up. How difficult is this for you to understand?
[quote]
Case closed. You guys need to stop prancing around "rape is wrong". the whole wolrd knows that. Try to understand the analogy in discussion.
[/quote]
The whole world knows that this cat and meat analogy is wrong, except for you and your "pious" friends. Why do you think there is uproar about it. The analogy you give have been disproved several times in this thread, and you still are adamant you are correct. This is why it's so easy for the media to pick out on uneducated Muslims who will give them an endless supply of regressive backward imagery to tarnish the image of Muslims all over the world.
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
besides, when folks go on vacation, even the most secure houses are vulnerable to burglary... so your analogy doesnt really apply.
thank you
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
I dont understand analogies.
Isnt this the whole point of discussion.
The Imam using a stupid analogy to defend an illegal act.
Yet ppl are using dogs and cars and robbers and what not.
Do you guys even know what rape is?
Its someone touching your skin, your private most parts without your consent.
People get angry if someone scratches their car, this is ones body we are talkign bout.
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
abey ab ye thread close bhi kar do.
Log bhi kitni stupid discussion kartey hian ajkal.
You people are stupid, both of you :
Whole general forum is stupid 
I am goin to cafe. 
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
*"A woman possesses the weapon of seduction. It is she who takes off her clothes, shortens them, flirts, puts on make-up and powder and takes to the streets, God protect us ... then it's a look, then a smile, then a conversation ... then a date, then a meeting, then a crime, then Long Bay jail. Then you get a judge, who has no mercy, and he gives you 65 years." *
Thank you for giving me his exact quote to work.
My reading of his statement....my interpretation of his statement is as follows:
Don't be seduced by women....don't enter into a conversation with them....don't date them....don't have sex with them...which may seem like the inevitable next step....otherwise you could be accused of rape and be looking at a long sentance.
In short it seems to me that he is saying stay clear of women. Do not give in to temptations. He is not saying it is ok to rape them.
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
that's not the interpretation. The imam is trying to take away the blame from the rapist, by saying that it's the seduction of the woman that is to blame for the rape. You're missing the context.
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
A woman possesses the weapon of seduction. It is she who takes off her clothes, shortens them, flirts, puts on make-up and powder and takes to the streets, God protect us ... then it's a look, then a smile, then a conversation ... then a date, then a meeting, then a crime, then Long Bay jail. Then you get a judge, who has no mercy, and he gives you 65 years."
Do you accept that the subject that the Imam is talking about is what may be termed as date rape or consensual sex? We are not talking about a guy raping a random woman on the street....but someone that is dating and someone that willingly takes off her clothes...gives in to temptation...and then claims that she was raped.
The Imam is simply advising his congregation to stay clear of women as they could be looking at jail.
I have no vested interest either way....I am trying to look at it impartially and this is what I read. Others may read more into it..than me. Even if others interpretation is valid....mine is also valid...the Imam needs to be given the benefit of the doubt even if your interpretation is the correct one...however I think my interpreation is the correct interpretation based on his quote.
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
Do you accept that the subject that the Imam is talking about is what may be termed as date rape or consensual sex? We are not talking about a guy raping a random woman on the street....but someone that is dating and someone that willingly takes off her clothes...gives in to temptation...and then claims that she was raped.
The Imam is simply advising his congregation to stay clear of women as they could be looking at jail.
I have no vested interest either way....I am trying to look at it impartially and this is what I read. Others may read more into it..than me. Even if others interpretation is valid....mine is also valid...the Imam needs to be given the benefit of the doubt even if your interpretation is the correct one...however I think my interpreation is the correct interpretation based on his quote.
What difference does it make if a woman is dating a man and he rapes her, or if neither knows the other?
For the impartiality of your thinking, why did you miss out "takes to the streets" (highlighted in blue) and put bold type for everything else?
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
For the impartiality of your thinking, why did you miss out "takes to the streets" (highlighted in blue) and put bold type for everything else?
Well if you are dating in a western society or a western girl..sex is quite common. Girls meet a guy at pub and then go and have sex with him..Each week they have sex with different guys. Sex generally does with dating. Don't tell me that does not happen. I assume you live in the west, and have a fair amount of interaction with western girls. Some have steady boyfriends others just have casual relationships with guys...until they find someone "right". The Imam is saying stay clear of women as it is a slippery slope and may lead you elsewhere. Whats wrong in saying that. He is saying don't be tempted by women in dating them. So that the issue of rape does not even arise.
Takes to the street I guess means you meet the woman outside somewhere...probably not literally on the street but maybe in a club, pub at work or anywhere else that you are likely to meet girls. The woman is looking good and her aim to get a date...attract a guy. The Imam is saying don't be tempted by women.
Re: ‘Rape victim’ defends besieged Australian cleric
You got the point. 
I think those supporting the Imaam (Including me) are supporting what he said, “the fact” not the Imaam himself. And he did not say anything wrong.
Even the most brilliant posters are failing to understand this point.