A Question

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Posted in another thread,

Exasperated? wry smile i don’t think so, just curious.

What does it mean when someone says, ‘the narrowmindedness of a religious mind’? Is it just out of irritation/frustration with people who refuse to see any other or even just acknowledge any path other than their own? Or is it out of hypocrasy—i mean in the sense that others cannot acknowledge another’s sense of commitment, and strength of belief in one’s faith-viewing it as something excessive and extreme..disproportionate maybe? But then is that really fair? hmm kay, hope all this makes sense…if not then ummm makes a face i’m out either way:)

2

To some extent ppl are right but on the whole , No...they are not!!!!

Especially religious authorities in Islam had shown the narrowmindness, something like the CONCEPT OF TALIBAN for Women education. That was totally WRONG. Women have equal rights of education. This is what criticised a lot.....

Nadeem

[This message has been edited by Nadeem (edited February 19, 2001).]

3

[quote]
Originally posted by Girl from Quraysh:
**Posted in another thread,

Exasperated? wry smile i don't think so, just curious.

What does it mean when someone says, 'the narrowmindedness of a religious mind'? Is it just out of irritation/frustration with people who refuse to see any other or even just acknowledge any path other than their own? Or is it out of hypocrasy---i mean in the sense that others cannot acknowledge another's sense of commitment, and strength of belief in one's faith-viewing it as something excessive and extreme..disproportionate maybe? But then is that really fair? hmm kay, hope all this makes sense...if not then ummm makes a face i'm out either way:)

**
[/quote]

GFQ, you could just continue the previous thread rather than starting a new post. Would you elaborate.
Also can you elaborate to explain to my limited intelligence that you agreed with my use of "Narrowmindedness of a religious mind " or you disagree. I am a little confused. Thanks

Belief is not what mind possesses, it is what possesses the mind!

4

Nadeem,

You say, 'something like the CONCEPT OF TALIBAN for Women education. That was totally WRONG. Women have equal rights of education. Women have equal right to education, i agree with that; what i disagree with is your statement concerning the Taliban. Here are the facts, in regards to the rumours circulating about the education of females. In accordance with Islam, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan considers education equally obligatory for both men and women, that is a fact. However, as u obviously know, currently the country is in shambles, the economic structure has been destroyed, and of course the education facilities have been turned to rubble like much else in the country. I mean seriously how can people be sent to school if there is no school to go to? The present war situation imposed and fueled by foreign powers diverts from Afghanistan's already meager national resources that would be better allocated to opening more schools. Secondly, the Afghans do not trust the communist-style curriculum....so the gov't does not only need to compile a new curriculum that will answer the needs of their society, they also have to restore the trust of the common people in government-run education. Thirdly, the war has created a huge brain drain in all sectors including education...which obviously poses additional hurdles in the restoration of educational, economic, political and social institutions. As conditions in the country improve, so will, doubtlessly, job and education opportunities for women.

analyze it,

You're right, i could have just continued the other thread or i could have opened up a new thread. I chose to do the latter, as what i wanted to talk about is people's perceptions that lead to labels such as extremists/fundamentalists/etc., not about technology versus islam which was the topic of that thread.

As far as your statement goes, i'm not agreeing with it or disagreeing with it, i'm just questioning it, its validity, its motive, and the subsequent implications and assumptions that stem from such statements in general.

5

Well, we can combine several running threads.

Let us say that a religious mind is "narrowminded" because he/she refuses to argue outside the confines of the religion. Example - homosexuality is disgusting, because Allah said men cannot act like women, and vice versa.

Now, let us say that science one day proves that homosexuality is purely genetic - that homosexuality is not a choice. In this case, it would mean Allah meant for a person to be homosexual, which contradicts the previous assertion.

Therefore, a religious mind, in order to rationalize the two view points, would necessarily criticize the scientific viewpoint, no matter the amount of evidence.

And that is narrowmindedness. That there is the strength of faith - that it transcends salient observation and makes sure that beliefs must corroborate religion without a second thought.

6

Now, let us say that science one day proves that homosexuality is purely genetic - that homosexuality is not a choice. In this case, it would mean Allah meant for a person to be homosexual, which contradicts the previous assertion.

People are born blind, deaf, handicap and serial killers / molesters. That doesn’t mean you should cry “why” “why”about it or act upon it. You should take it as a challenge. Do it the right way. Allah puts obstacles in YOUR FACE so you can learn and pass the test called life.

Very easy for people to give up to temptations, one can only be respected when he/she chooses to do the right thing, the natural thing.

It doesn’t take a scientist to figure that out.

We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior

[This message has been edited by yOuNgBrAt (edited February 19, 2001).]

7

See, the narrowmindedness here is the definition of "the right way".

Islam clearly defines a right way, a way that is opposite to homosexuality.

Yet, for a strong homosexual, the right way is what makes him feel comfortable and natural, and not what some testing God wants.

A blind person cannot fix his blindness. A deaf person cannot fix his deafness. A handicap person cannot fix his handicap. A serial killer does not stop killing, unless they are locked away. A molestor does not stop molesting, unless they are locked away. You can ask them to fix their problem, but they cannot. Why ask that of a genetically programmed homosexual?

The blind, deaf, and handicapped do not infringe upon other's rights while being blind, deaf, or handicapped. A homosexual does not infringe upon another's rights while being homosexual - it is a consentual act. Why is homosexuality so different from these things? And the reason is because God has forbade it.

Disclaimer - I am in no way advocating that homosexuality is genetic. I don't know what causes it, and the example is here only for illustration.

8

See, the narrowmindedness here is the definition of "the right way". <<<

If seems to you that is narrow-mindedness, then tell us what is the right way?
To every person his or her way is the right way. But does that make it so?

This is where religion kicks in.

Islam clearly defines a right way, a way that is opposite to homosexuality.
Yet, for a strong homosexual, the right way is what makes him feel comfortable and natural, and not what some testing God wants.
A blind person cannot fix his blindness. A deaf person cannot fix his deafness. A handicap person cannot fix his handicap. A serial killer does not stop killing, unless they are locked away. A molestor does not stop molesting, unless they are locked away. You can ask them to fix their problem, but they cannot. Why ask that of a genetically programmed homosexual?

The blind, deaf, and handicapped do not infringe upon other's rights while being blind, deaf, or handicapped. A homosexual does not infringe upon another's rights while being homosexual - it is a consentual act. Why is homosexuality so different from these things? And the reason is because God has forbade it.<<<<<<

So will you let a blind person drive you around?
Will you let a deaf person pick up a 911 call?
Will you let your children stay in a room with a serial killier?

I don’t think so.

If there is a problem then fix it the right way, don’t encourage it.

We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior

9

[quote]
Originally posted by yOuNgBrAt:
**
This is where religion kicks in. **
[/quote]

Religion or society's laws. Either way. Essentially, I agree.

[quote]
Originally posted by yOuNgBrAt:
*If there is a problem then fix it *the right way, don’t encourage it.
**
[/quote]

On the other hand, I do not condemn the blind or the deaf the way I condemn a serial killer. I do not let the blind drive a car. I do not let the deaf answer 911. Why should I force a homosexual into a heterosexual relationship where the partner will ultimately feel insecure and unwanted?

10

I think everyone is diverting from the question of the post. Talaban, Homosexuality?? Don’t we have separate threads for them?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Anyway, as for the question in initial post …

To me ‘the narrow-mindedness of a religious mind’ means their scare of the unknown. The scare that if they find something, which contradicts what they believe in or have believed since childhood then … they will be in a dilemma! Out of love (hypocritical or real) they tend to be stubborn about what they think is right rather than having an open mind about arguments.

Though someone else saying ‘the narrow-mindedness of a religious mind’ will have totally different meanings … in their own right!

Peace!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Humanity First! Though I give you the right to disagree …

11

I thought youngbrat and I did a fair job of staying on topic.

12

[quote]
Originally posted by Girl from Quraysh:
**Posted in another thread,

Exasperated? wry smile i don't think so, just curious.

What does it mean when someone says, 'the narrowmindedness of a religious mind'? Is it just out of irritation/frustration with people who refuse to see any other or even just acknowledge any path other than their own? Or is it out of hypocrasy---i mean in the sense that others cannot acknowledge another's sense of commitment, and strength of belief in one's faith-viewing it as something excessive and extreme..disproportionate maybe? But then is that really fair? hmm kay, hope all this makes sense...if not then ummm makes a face i'm out either way:)

**
[/quote]

GFQ:

Since you have quoted from one my posts, I feel compelled to participate.

First of all, permit me to share my thought, that the very fact that you are thinking about these accusations proves to me that you can think beyond your religion.

I claimed that some of us here cannot think beyond Islamic supremacy because of the following:

[quote]
This was the question:
In our daily lives, interactions and everything we do has two major influences."Religion and technology". As compared to the life of a person of 100 years ago, our daily lives have been completely influenced by science and technology and religion has much lesser influence. What is your opinion?

[/quote]

[quote]
This was the answer:
Besides, technology/science is unveiling the mysteries of this world NOW which the Quran proclaimed hundreds of years ago. What does that tell you? So the topic itself Religion vs technology is wrong. It should be Religion & Technology. Because when you put it in the context of "versus" or comparing then technology cannot match Islam. Agreed?

[/quote]

[quote]
This was the comment:
Next thing you know, they'll be saying they Allah is the fundamental aspect of the Self. Atman is Brahman, after all.

[/quote]

[quote]
This was the response:
It doesnt say that Hindus can be muslims.It sites justifications of being a muslim in YOUR ved,hindu scripture.Either no hindu has ever studied Koran,Or if they have ,they have not been able to justify
(which of course we have been telling you eventhough u wont listen as prophecied but its our duty to educate non muslims so that one excuse u never will have that is of ignorence'i didnt know' .."))
Far from true as u are,we acknowledge Brahma,adam & eve which couldnt have been more before budhism & hinduism or judeaism,we have enclosed all the hx of MANKIND not only hindism or vedic or india or arya.
That is why it is comprehensive whole,TOTALL.not piecemeal arrest of transitory religions like Azvesta,budhism,hinduism,bahai or many thousands before islam tried & failed & all destined to fail after Islam

[/quote]

Responses like these, induced me to make that comment.

13

Why should I force a homosexual into a heterosexual relationship where the partner will ultimately feel insecure and unwanted?

We can't allowed it either. Since we know that its not the right way.

We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior

14

Responses like these, induced me to make that comment.

That makes it narrow-mindedness on your side.

Like astrofan said once that the educated people (indians) ignores stupidty, but so far i havn't seen it happening. You can't help it because your a human. So can't we because we are human also.

We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior

15

[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
** To me 'the narrow-mindedness of a religious mind' means their scare of the unknown. The scare that if they find something, which contradicts what they believe in or have believed since childhood then ... they will be in a dilemma! Out of love (hypocritical or real) they tend to be stubborn about what they think is right rather than having an open mind about arguments.**
[/quote]

Alright, i agree with you when you say narrowmindedness results out of ignorance, and fear, fear of the unknown, fear of rejection, fear of being wrong.

But, what i'm asking, is that, is it right to label those, who out of perhaps, a strong attachment---a strong commitment, refer back to their religion, in a majority of if not all circumstances,...as narrowminded?

[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited February 20, 2001).]

16

[quote]
Originally posted by Girl from Quraysh:
** Alright, i agree with you when you say narrowmindedness results out of ignorance, and fear, fear of the unknown, fear of rejection, fear of being wrong.
**
[/quote]

I think there are many narrowminded people weather religious or not, but tlaking about Islam, if one applies its rules as the sunnah and actions of our role models, there won't be such thing as narrowmindness, rather it will be broad logic.

17

Anyone insisting that “my way is the only right way” is narrow-minded. This is regardless how right that person may be. This goes for religion, politics, sex, and eating habits, among other measures. Basically, narrow-minded people reject every other way of doing things simply because they are programmed from the early childhood not to question the ways things have passed on to them. They are basically narrow minded from birth, due to no fault of their own.

These people come in all colors, races, sexual orientation, and religious backgrounds.

18

NYA:
It appears that the Muslim master of this web site have ralegated you to a lesser forum because of your rational and intelligent views. Unless you start pulling the jihadi line they might kick you out of the Islamic ulema. Watch out pal.

19

GfQ!

You wrote:

[quote]
Nadeem,
You say, 'something like the CONCEPT OF TALIBAN for Women education. That was totally WRONG. Women have equal rights of education. Women have equal right to education, i agree with that; what i disagree with is your statement concerning the Taliban. Here are the facts, in regards to the rumours circulating about the education of females. In accordance with Islam, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan considers education equally obligatory for both men and women, that is a fact. However, as u obviously know, currently the country is in shambles, the economic structure has been destroyed, and of course the education facilities have been turned to rubble like much else in the country. I mean seriously how can people be sent to school if there is no school to go to? The present war situation imposed and fueled by foreign powers diverts from Afghanistan's already meager national resources that would be better allocated to opening more schools. Secondly, the Afghans do not trust the communist-style curriculum....so the gov't does not only need to compile a new curriculum that will answer the needs of their society, they also have to restore the trust of the common people in government-run education. Thirdly, the war has created a huge brain drain in all sectors including education...which obviously poses additional hurdles in the restoration of educational, economic, political and social institutions. As conditions in the country improve, so will, doubtlessly, job and education opportunities for women.

analyze it,

You're right, i could have just continued the other thread or i could have opened up a new thread. I chose to do the latter, as what i wanted to talk about is people's perceptions that lead to labels such as extremists/fundamentalists/etc., not about technology versus islam which was the topic of that thread.

As far as your statement goes, i'm not agreeing with it or disagreeing with it, i'm just questioning it, its validity, its motive, and the subsequent implications and assumptions that stem from such statements in general.
[/quote]

I totally DISAGREE with you. These statements TALIBAN had made only when they really came under fire from WESTERN WORLD & ISLAMIC WORLD too. In Urdu we say, jub aqal Thekanay aa gaiee...

For your info, my info about TALIBAN is first hand other than any news agency info!!!!

Former Islamic Jehad alliance, who fought the war against USSR was much much better in their views about Islam bocz they were all not MOULVEEz, most of them were the graduates of Engg. Universities & Colleges. Hope Prof. Abdur Rab Rasool Sayyaff will give you correct info about the views of TALIBAN!!!

If you wanna know about Taliban, Maulana Sameeul Haq (co-founder of Taliban from Akora Khatak) will also let you know about their biased behaviour against Women!!!!

Nadeem

20

Nadeem,

Which statements are referring to specifically? You say came under fire from the western and islamic world, which parts of the islamic world?

You say your info is first hand, what is first hand?--and how much of a difference does that make, every person, every journalist, will report what they know, what they have seen, what they have heard, and what they have researched, with their own pen, with their own ink, and there is no doubt that their feelings, their experiences will influence their words. So its prudent to examine sources and not to rely solely on a limited amount.

Furthermore, what information is it exactly that you are propagating? All i see is a statement, or allegation rather, in regards to taliban and their views in regards to women, their education, treatment and the like.