A question for the experts ...

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

What makes millions of people come out on the roads and demonstrate/protest against something? Especially, if the issues are not even theirs or immediately related to their country. When millions protest and demonstrate against an idea, how hard is it to ignore them? How many more people have to be on the other side to discredit the protests? If millions come out on the roads, is it safe to assume that billions (who don’t come out) are ALL for the ideas that these people [on the roads] are protesting against? Considering that laying back and watching is far more easy than to assemble and protest (unless it really means something to someone)

Just a few questions without any relevance (or maybe) to the current affairs …

2

All of these protests and demonstrations are pointless and a waste of time unless those who particiapted, and others who didn't participated, vote their conscious next time around. The elected officials have to fear loosing their seats. The demonstators in U.S. (I found it very amusing to see protests in non-Muslim lands by non-muslims) are a drop (is that too much of a size?) in the bucket. There are lot more Muslims and Non-Muslims who side with the "No war with Iraq" issue but unless they express their concerns to their elected officials, they haven't said anything to anyone. The protest in Dallas drew about 2,000 Muslims........ out of a population of over 100,000 Musilms.

Are 98% of the Muslims in Dallas-Ft. Worth area for the war or are they against the war?

Demonstrations are a nice way to express to the world one's thinking, feelings and emotions but all is lost when the votes are not caste consummate with those feelings and emotions.

3

Many of the people who come out have no jobs ot other important thigns in life, so they take up these causes for their own mental stimulation.

Just look at all the hollywood actors and their craze for Tibet. Same general idea.

4

Imdad: How do you know that Many people who come out in protests dont have jobs?

Jannu: Why do you think non-muslims cannot be citizens of non-muslim lands? But you do have a point: Vote counts. But thats not the answer I am seeking.

AC
ps: You dont have to answer my questions just to fill in space.

5

Re: A question for the experts ...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Azkar Choudhry: *

If millions come out on the roads, is it safe to assume that billions (who don’t come out) are ALL for the ideas that these people [on the roads] are protesting against? Considering that laying back and watching is far more easy than to assemble and protest (unless it really means something to someone)

[/QUOTE]

In a democratic election only votes of people who come out to vote are counted. Using the same analogy people who are pro-war should show their strength by some means. Currently, the polls and the world wide protests shows that the majority is against the war.

6

THERE IS clear divide between the government and the people
i think the opposition parties in thier respective countries must cash on the popular sentiments

7

Imdad: Your so warped :nook:

Your so wrong in your assumption, did you ask the 1 million or so that marched whether they had jobs or not… I’m college student and work too, the MAB association they are workers, CND are workers… your arguments has no basis..!

We didnt just march for the hell of it… and we didnt march for ‘mental stimulation’ … we marched for sake of saving people in iraq, on the 15th of Feb thousnads of protestors marched in Baghdad.. like in who’s name gives us the right to go and set fire to their country when majority are asking not to be bombed !

Blair knows his career is on the line here, let’s wait and see whether he is willing to risk all that… the people’s vote count… 2 million and more votes should be playing on his mind…

Unlike you, we didnt just sit and shake our heads at the television when we saw footage of life in iraq… on the 15th of Feb we marched to say that this war shouldnt and can’t be done in our name!

8

Its better not to say anything if you gona BS… Here is a tid bit for your consumption…

http://www.dawn.com/2003/02/18/int5.htm

$5,000 spent to oppose war

WELLINGTON, Feb 17: A 51-year-old New Zealander who earns a living cleaning motels and sewing has spent 5,000 New Zealand dollars (2,750 US dollars) of her own money on a newspaper advertisement urging US President George W. Bush to pull back from war in Iraq.

Margie Beamsley’s open letter, saying, “Mr Bush, please say ‘Never again’ to war,” was published as a half-page advertisement in Monday’s Wellington Dominion-Post newspaper.

“You need not see the day when you are reviled as the man who brought the world to war,” wrote the odd-jobs lady from the tiny town of Karamea, on the west coast of the South Island.

“You can take a different stand and be honoured as the man who used his power to find a warless way, a way that remembers that every human being is glorious, hidden like you and me, beneath our fears.”-dpa

9

Re: A question for the experts ...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Azkar Choudhry: *
What makes millions of people come out on the roads and demonstrate/protest against something?

** the fact that their government is going to spend so much money on the destruction of people's lives instead of using it in their own country for constructive purposes. millions will die just so that US can take out their frustation of sep 11 and gain access to the oil. doesnt make sense if the terrorist were from egypt and saudi arabia and they go after iraq instead. i dont know if this makes sense or not ..just my opinion,**

Especially, if the issues are not even theirs or immediately related to their country.

** ofcourse its related to them, its their sons n daughters who will fight the war and die in it. not bush's children..y shudnt they be concern about it? **

When millions protest and demonstrate against an idea, how hard is it to ignore them? How many more people have to be on the other side to discredit the protests? If millions come out on the roads, is it safe to assume that billions (who don’t come out) are ALL for the ideas that these people [on the roads] are protesting against? Considering that laying back and watching is far more easy than to assemble and protest (unless it really means something to someone)

** i think it is safe to say that protest is a great way to show the govt how common public feel about the issue. it does effect the politicians since their position is weakened for the next elections.. and votes are important to them. people who never showed up in the protest is probably because they dont know who is right or just dont care **

** * these r just my opinion i might be wrong though... so disregard anything that doesnt make sense ** * :)

[/QUOTE]

10

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Imdad Ali:

Many of the people who come out have no jobs...
[/QUOTE]

Prove it, with the facts.

11

nine replies and one serious attempt to answer my question(s) ... can the 'experts' here only do cut-paste jobs?

12

Generally the people who participate in protests are the side with stronger passions on an issue (not necessarily convictions) and those who feel a moral obligation. And in times of (pending) war, it's the advocates of peace who more meet both critieria. The billions who don't participate aren't necessarily on one side or the other, they just aren't motivated enough to get off their butts. But thank God that massive "let's go to war" protests have not been a factor in history, there's enough violence going on in the world without that kind of bedlam.

13

Re: A question for the experts ...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Azkar Choudhry: *
What makes millions of people come out on the roads and demonstrate/protest against something? Especially, if the issues are not even theirs or immediately related to their country. When millions protest and demonstrate against an idea, how hard is it to ignore them? How many more people have to be on the other side to discredit the protests? If millions come out on the roads, is it safe to assume that billions (who don’t come out) are ALL for the ideas that these people [on the roads] are protesting against? Considering that laying back and watching is far more easy than to assemble and protest (unless it really means something to someone)

Just a few questions without any relevance (or maybe) to the current affairs …
[/QUOTE]

What makes millions of people to show up and demonstrate against something could either be mutual interest or political tactics, driven to change the minds of those who are linked or associated to think tanks and decision makers.

Now a days, except for some small family issues, and sometimes including those matter too, everything is either directly or indirectly related to nation or world wide interest regardless of how many individuals, groups or a population involved.

Yes, it is not very hard to ignore them if they are smaller in size and reason to protest is just limited to an extent or not so large that it could affect or change the common person’s life.

If a single person protest in front of your house one day you may or may not remember that after a week, but if a large number of people protest and block path to your destination then you may think about your problem 1st because to you that's your priority than to understand their reason for protest.

If the protestors are dramatically large in numbers and their reason to protest could easily affect you or your financial position or your daily life pattern then you may think what's good for you at present. If this happens as an on going issue then it could easily alter your thinking & then lead you and others for exodus of behavior and opinion, either you will support it or you reject it.

In educated societies rules, regulations, law and justice system are designed to regulate public. But if the public does not have the authority to change the rules then the reaction comes out in a form of protest or demonstration, which builds up gradually and eventually involves every related person. This could also lead to either change in decision/rule or it completely suppresses their will. Suppression could lead to an ongoing protest.

As I said people on roads could ultimately trigger a permanent change in behavior of those who just sit in front of TVs all the time. Media is also a key component here for altering people’s mind. Take an example of Green Peace or Sierra Club, when they protest what makes organizations to change their decisions, after all they are not involving you physically or the whole world. But my friend Azkar media is building up a decision in your mind as to why its good to support SC/GP. Although, they do not protest in large numbers, but have the capability to change your thinking with the help of media. You could say here its because their scope or reason to protest is far greater than an individual’s priority.

Azkar, don't mind me saying that but a question like this only comes when you may or may not fed up with reasoning, but this is natural its just a step towards CHANGE, a transformation of perception.

14

My own personal opinion (which is open to being discredited) is that individuals tend to take the time to participate in these protests only when they feel a personal 'relationship' with the issue at large - the relationship has to go above and beyond the normal mundane issues that affect most of us (and for those who have them, affect our children and spouses) on a day-to-day basis (for example, municipal taxes/closures of public institutions/traffic congestion, etc.). For every protest that was organized in each city, in each town, there was the process of obtaining the requisite permits to march and have the relevant blocks closed down (not an easy task to obtain these permits sometimes, i can say first hand). These permits have to be applied, depending upon your local laws, sometimes months beforehand. There were hundreds - in some cases such as in London - hundreds of thousands - of banners and signs printed and stapled together. Taking in the cost of advertising the protest in diverse media (including radio/tv/magazines/newspapers/universities/cafes, etc.), altogether that expends an immense amount of financial and natural resources - time being one of the main ones. We had anti-war protests on Saturday in Sudbury, Canada - at temperatures of -28 degrees which, anyone living in Canada should be able to tell you, is enough to give you frostbite. Literally. So what makes individuals like these - most of whom i am hazharding a guess have never visited Iraq - come out and protest - ? In my personal opinion it is an immensely personal relationship one feels with the issue at hand, something that gnaws at their consciences - perhaps particularly moreso as they are residing in democratic countries where technically their governments represent them, so they feel they are the ones who possess an obligation to speak out against particular policies.

One aspect about the anti-war protesters that i have noticed (i might be wrong here) - is that one can't generalize them. They don't neatly fit into any one particular age/gender/religious/ethnic category. (This, manifestly, contradicts the point made above by Imdad Ali which i think is a pretty sweeping generalization to make - not certain where he obtains that information from).

>>When millions protest and demonstrate against an idea, how hard is it to ignore them?<<
Interesting query. i am not certain of the answer.
People all around the world have spoken, but it is extremely doubtful (IMO) whether their governments are willing to listen.

15

Re: A question for the experts ...

Originally posted by Azkar Choudhry: *
Just a few questions without any relevance (or maybe) to the current affairs …
[/QUOTE]
When millions protest and demonstrate against an idea, how hard is it to ignore them? How many more people have to be on the other side to discredit the protests?

It takes just one man, the President of the most powerful state in the world to descredit the entire efforts and to turn a deaf year to the millions of people who are actually against war... ah so much for democracy, i say its just a facade.

Imdad, these aren't anti-globalization protests... Please, avoid gross generalizations. THe issue is grave, its a matter of setting up a precedent of pre-emptive strikes against any country. Its a question of saving an entire population from the scourge of war.The condition of the Iraqi people and children are a testimony to the fact that even without war they have suffered a lot. Now, atleast we can't say that there is general apathy all over regarding this issue. The world's conscious is not dead.

Azkar C:
What makes millions of people come out on the roads and demonstrate/protest against something? Especially, if the issues are not even theirs or immediately related to their country.

a)ITs a question of moral obligation.

b) In this globalized world no issue is just my issue. What happens in one part of the world does affect another part and send reverberations all over.The realization that the issue at hand can be solved by host of other means available, without much bloodshed that would kill the innocent civilians makes people raise their voice against injustice.

16

AC: I didn't mean anything that lead to formulate your question.

There's a range of reasons for people to react and that needs to be looked at within the context of their environment or conditions. I am still trying to understand the reasons for the protests in Europe. There are factors like their own forces having to participate, casualtie, the cost, etc. But, still, these are not the bigger reasons. Is it the U.S. bullish stature that is grating on the Europeans? Most probably.

As for millions protesting and their gov'ts taking notice, I don't see that those people make any difference. In a country like Greece where there are direct elections will straight numbres mean anything. But in other forms of gov't, the "protesters" are diffused amongst principalities that have their own elections. The protests make for a interesting watch from a distance, in my opinion, but they wouldn't carry much political punch. I hope they do and somehow the effect filters up to their federal levels. Time will tell. But, actually, the protestors represent a small percentage of the people who are willing to show their feelings and emotions in a physical manner. The protesters might help in forcing their own gov'ts to pay attention to them (is that's what's happening in U.K.?).

Even though the pundits are predicting that the U.S. will go it alone if Europe decides not to come along (with statements like "who needs the Europeans anyway?" "When do those whimps make a difference?" "ungratefuls who forgot who saved them from the Nazis!" etc, etc, etc), people are puzzled in the U.S. over the reactions in the countries considered "Friends of America".

Most of these stem from the fact that there is no other super-power and the U.S. is making it's weight felt and people are showing their anger in the ways they can about the issue/s dear to America.