A question about God

Dushwari, you posted a similar question about why atrocities take place a long time ago.

Do such people always know better? What makes you so confident that they do? It is believed that fundamentalists and people who commit atrocities have psychological disorders such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder.....one of the symptoms of such a disorder being lack of empathy for others. Or perhaps in their quest to achieve, rule, conquer...they have sold their souls to the devil....and could care less how many innocent people they need to trample on or kill to get to what they believe is the "top".

Why God is not Present?

Hmm....there are many things Dushwari, that we can't perceive with our five senses but that doesn't mean they don't exist. For example, we learn in science class that all matter consists of atoms. But guess what? We can't see atoms. Scientists still **have not been able to clearly see an atom utilising the complex technology that we have today. We know now that diseases can be caused by bacteria and viruses. But think about the people who lived centuries before us. They thought diseases were caused by supersitious ideas. But WE know better. **Now imagine if the microscope was NEVER INVENTED. As a result....would we, living in the year 2009, still continue believing that just because we can't see germs, viruses, and bacteria.........that these microrganisms don't exist. Is that what we would believe just because we don't have our handy dandy microscope with us to help us "percieve" these mirorgnaisms? That's not logical assumption is it?

As I have answered before in one of your previous similar threads........it depends upon what you believe. The Quran reminds us frequently that life is a test. How could life be a test if Allah/God was to give you the answers and control our every action? How would it be a test if God stopped you every time you were about to do something bad. Think about it this way. Most teachers want all their students to do well on a test. So she does her best to prepare her students and equips them with the tools they will need to succeed. But when she passes out that test.........those students are on their own. If she were to give out test answers so freely.........how would that be a test?
**
As God decides just to be an Observer?**

How would you so confidently know that God decided to be just an Observer, Dushwari? Yes, Allah sees and hears everything. Try reading Allah's 99 names sometime.......they tell you a bit about His job description.....and it goes beyond just being an Observer. If you do some reflecting you will find that there are many things that are controlled by Allah that we have no control over (rotation of the earth, changing of the seasons, etc). And there are many times in life when we go out of our way to make sure that things go according to our plans...........but then something goes wrong...maybe it rains, maybe a flight was delayed, maybe a last minute emergency....and our planning is spoiled. Someone once said that he knew God existed when he realized that his plans don't always go according to his ways. Sometimes God teaches us a lesson in this world for our crimes.........sometimes he delays our punishment for the next world. Something we like to call, "What goes around comes around." Sometimes God likes to give you enough rope to hang yourself. It is said that if Allah punishes you in this world....he's being merciful because it's better to get the punishment over with in this life........and that if HE really wants to punish you, he'll give it to you in the next life.

Look, Dushwari.........when Allah made Adam and told the angels he would endow him with free will.....the angles were scared. They asked Allah why He would want to create a creature that would cause bloodshed and disaster. And Allah told the angels that He knows what they do not. And he bestowed upon human beings the title, "The Best of Creation." Why would He do that if there are those among us who are so cruel? Well.........it's because Allah knew that the human race ALSO has the** potential** to do immense good.

When people are committing atrocities.........what is everyone else doing? Sleeping? Instead of blaming Allah, shouldn't we think of ways to make a positive change? Not just thinking and brainstorming.......but actually putting ideas into action? Blaming Allah is the easy way out. He has equipped us with intellect and much more. Why not ask ourselves, "Is the suffering around me supposed to be a test for the witnesses to see what they can do to help?" "If someone is starving, is that a test for me to see if I will help the person or at least spend some of my wealth on the needy?"

Anyone can point a finger at others even at God........but it takes great courage to point that finger toward ourselves and ask what we're doing to better things.

very well said...
Or It cud be that, God rather gives us hints that he is present rather than showing up. Probably he wants us to see things around us and use our wisdom to analyze his presence; coz wisdom is the difference between us and animals. Anybody who see's wud believe; but who just catches the hints and acknowledges is wise one. And GOD wants us to proof that we r making use of wisdom he gave us.

Mash'Allah, I actually got quite a few answers to certain questions from reading your post. Very well written RV, as always :) Thanks for sharing this :D

I think that when these kind of questions arise (and they do often with every misfortune) it generally a lack of understanding of the true nature of God and His relationship with humans.

If you think about it, these questions are in essence a direct or indirect claim against God, based on the assumption that God does not seem to care enough about his creation for letting so many die, or for allowing tyrants to get away with murder and oppression without any form of justice. There is also another assumption at play here, and that is that us humans supposedly have more empathy with other humans, than God seems to have.

Now I'm not saying whether these questions are right or wrong, infact they're probably a starting point for most of us in challenging our blind faith in God, and most likely if concluded correctly, will lead to stronger faith based on conviction, however what im saying is it certainly reflects our limited knowledge regarding our relationship with God, and his view with respect to us humans.

If you think about it in the wider sense, God created this earth with many systems running simultaneously and interdependant on each other. He created the solar system, the weather system, the water system, vegetation system, animal food chain system and various other eco systems that feed, grow and compete for each other.

In each of these systems, the mechanics or the blueprints as it were, are created and set out by God, after which nature takes its course. Despite what we like to think, God doesnit sit there interfereing or rectifying every disruption that occurs in the natural world, but lets it correct itself. He set up a mighty system that either adapts to its changes or naturally dies out. Life goes on and that is what we call evolution.

God didnt interefere when the dinosaurs died out, or when the dodos became extinct. Similiarly He doesnt interfere when humans distrupt the natural system, with thier own man made creations, laws, societies and lifestyles. He simply created a biological system with the ability to reason, and then He let that system run. And that is what we acknowledge as free will.

For that reason, He does not interfere at every injustice or rectifying every natural distaster, for that is not how the system blueprint works.

You see, where would our free will go, if God was interfering at every turn? What would be the point of his guidance system, if he perfected us from the beginning? And more importantly, what would be the point of societal law of crime and punishment, if it was left to God to deal with the sinners at every point. A system like that would not run independently and eventually break down.

Instead, God gave us humans the abilty to think and adapt. And most importantly, he gave us guidance at every turn. Over 1,24000 Prophets to various parts in the world, at different times, to various people and tribes, of whom we only know about a tiny handful.

This is where we are differentiated from other creations and this is where his mercy comes in.

The system he set in place for us is the act of dua. This is the only point of interference in the natural system that God is willing to make. And as simple as it sounds, dua is the only purpose He created humans for, i.e. to ask from Him, be it for health, wealth, forgiveness or other desires.

After all what is the essence of salah? it is not in anyway to benefit God, after all there are billions of people in this world, who dont recognise the One God, dont pray, fast or give to charity, there are billions who have passed away in that state. It doesnt make an iota of difference to Him except to wanting to prevent more people from going astray.

The ones He is looking for are the ones who are seeking Him, the ones who already recognise Him and ask sincerely for their desires. That is all He wants. That is what you and I are here for.

God is saying to us, I am willing to change your life, your destiny, your afterlife, its not difficult for me, I say 'Be' and it is, but in this system, you need to ask for it. And that is the only point God interfers with nature, inorder to bring it into accord with your desires. What can you say is more merciful then that?

Because by that simple task of asking, you are not only recognising God as your provider, as the all powerful, but you are also recognising your true significance in this world, by submitting sincerely to God. That is all He waiting for. A personal connection with the best of His creation.

So with that in the back of our minds mind, how we can claim to have more empathy than our creator is quite difficult to comprehend. Our empathy is minute when you compare it to the thousands of systems God has created for us, it is minute in comparison especially when we are his creation and he loves us more than any human ever can, regrdless of whether we recognise Him or not.

He created those feelings FGS, he created those parent/child bond, the husband/wife bond, He created empathy and love guys, how can we claim to know more about it than the creator Himself??

I always tell people who question God's powers, that mate, you saw/heard/expereinced one devastating incident and you start to lose hope in God, God has witnessed mass killings and injustices from the beginning of mankind, trashing his laws, denying His existance, harming and killing HIS creation, yet after all that, He still hasnt given up on us.

He is still pleading for a connection of some sort, whilst we have disconnected from Him. He is desperate to answer our calls, whilst we ignore Him, He is willing to help us out, whilst we question His kindness.

That my friend, is the system of true love and mercy.

Re: A question about God

Everything is due to Gid's urge to make Gods of all life forms including humans. Hence relinquishment of control on birth so the human can learn on its own. Some boundaries are however laid out to prevent too much disruption by the errants during the learning cycle.

After all, it is such a bother to have to recreate the universe between every other wink

Re: A question about God

To some questions in this universe,thre are no answers.

Masha Allah ............ Jazaka Allah..........
Very Logical Replies...............
But

You have Quoted QURAN , ESMAI HUSNA (God Names ) , If some one will not believe in Allah , Quran and Muhammad(pbuh) ............. Then...??

everything has an answer. you just have to look persistently enough for it.

Re: A question about God

rv, we all appreciate your thoughts and reasonable account with which you shared your perspectives. yet, you misunderstood the query. it is about questioning the significance of the physical presence of God, but of the significance of God's invisibility that is the gist of the query, put forth in this thread's initial post by me.


Interesting thread. I had a somewhat similar topic in religion forum. What I find ironic is that God expects us to STOP injustice, fight (jihad, crusade etc), but he himself is on the sidelines? This just does not compute. Taking Islam as an example, if God is micromanaging us to the extent that we have to pray 5 times a day, eat & dress a certain way, I find God's inaction most dishearting God.

Re: A question about God

Thats just it, He is not micro managing us, whether we pray or not, that is left up to us.

Re: A question about God

yb, in what vein are you blaming god for micromanaging or not micro managing humans or the world and the universe?


left upto us? right and then what would await you during qayamat?


what do u mean? i already gave some examples.

Re: A question about God

[QUOTE]
Every illness has a cure, and the cure to ignorance is knowledge.
[/QUOTE]

Chaiwala,
What makes you think he/she is not knowledgeable or that you are more knowledgeable? Are muslims really that self righteous that they term people "disagreeing" with their opinion as ill or sick? And don't tell me that your religion says so because then I would be really glad I am not part of that belief system.

What you believe in, is your opinion/choice about some basic questions every human ponders about. Please don't call others ignorant or sick, just because they chose to form a different opinion than yours about these soul searching questions. It says more about you than tham.

In philosophy this query is referred as "the problem of evil". The argument from moral evil presents that the existance of moral evil is inconsistance with the exiestance of omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent God. Usually this argument is counter through the "free will defense" that the moral evils are caused by the free choice which God gave to humans. The freewill argument however is criticized by questioning the responsibilty of God in the creation of these free humans while knowing the risks of moral evils, and therefore atleast partly to blame for their abuse of freedom.
And the debate goes on....

^^^I like your thought process.