A pipe dream?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

I was wondering about the similarities between US of A and GB and India and Pakistan. Let us see how similar they actually are:

USA basically took shape because of religious disagreement between the Church and some Brits. The ones self-exiled themselves to USA and made their own country. Pakistan was also formed on religious lines as many Muslims believed they would not be safe under Hindu (perceived) rule.

USA and GB speak the same language (different dialects though). Pakistan and India share many languages and dialects - Punjabi, Hindi/Urdu, Sindhi etc.

USA and GB fought a few wars. So did we :frowning:

USA and GB have similar cultures. Pakistan and India have almost the same culture in most places.

Other things common in Pak/Ind not necessarily common to USA/GB:

Despite the claims of so many PakNazis (those that believe in an aggressive India-negationist ideology), Indian and Pakistani cuisine is virtually the SAME.

Racially, Pakistan and India (at least North India) share the same ethnic stock.

Now, the point behind all this deliberation is to show that Pakistan and India could well be co-operating friends in the future if we see how USA and GB quickly reached that state in history.

What do you think the chances are that we have a powerful bloc of nations in South Asia, that though independent and sovereign, co-operate in just about any domain. Let’s say, Pakistani forces go to Sri Lanka to help quell Tiger trouble and Nepali soldiers help Pakistan Army to defeat Baloch rebels. Likewise, there could be a common currency (the names are already the same - rupee). Why can’t it happen? Even in the EU, nations like Germany and France disagree a lot and might even hate each other but all that happens within the basic framework of co-operation and civility. Why can’t we progress together?

I would like to invite all GS people to debate this topic. Let us be positive. Only then we can have a positive future. No more discussions on Kashmir, religious fundamentalism, cultural clashes etc.

Those with trouble-mongering or mocking mindset please stay away. I am expecting a lot of mature responses from the enlightened crowd at GS.

To South Asian peace and progress!

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Re: A pipe dream?

To South Asian Peace and Progress, Cheers!

This is the first time ever I have read such an analogy, that is equating GB and USA to India and Pakistan. I have thought about Germany and France and read about replicating the EU model in our part of the world. Then sometime back I came across an argument as to whether we can emulate the Brazilian/Argentinian Model. But in my view, each case is unique in its own way.
Our problem is the asymmetry within the region and India's hegemonistic designs. Either India should treat the rest of the South Asian states with respect or the 30% land mass constituting the six smaller states reconcile their differences with India and accept it as the God father. I mean, it is imperative that South Asian states find a middle ground IF they are really serious about building a powerful regional block, the way they are doing it in the North Asian, South East Asian and Pacific Region.
In our case, particularly between Pakistan and India, religion was a factor to contend with...that has to an extent waned now. Having the same cultural and ethinic affiliations across border or professing the same religion is no gurantee for a peaceful co-existence. (Franco-German case in point). However, it is the 'powerful' economic interests that would ultimately bring both the countries together. (we are in that phase now though, the realisation is there). And to this the cultural and ethnic and other similarities would be an added advantage.
I would reinforce your point only that we need to have a basic framework which would guide or rather underline our interactions with other states within the region.

more later....

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Re: A pipe dream?

True. India should accept the status quo on all disputes and so should Pakistan. It is time we shed the baggage we inherited from history and started out afresh.

The New Emperor
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Re: A pipe dream?

The difference is that the present GB-US special relationship has had 270~ years for there disputes and ill feeling to wane. For Pak/India the partition generation are still with us.

There should and will be a mutually beneficial coexistence in time between Pakistan and India.

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Re: A pipe dream?

Look, until those who were alive during the partition and their kids are still alive, there will never be such bon honie. These people need to die and the memories need to fade.

I was reading something I found interesting. After the Tsunami, the Indian subcontinent actually shifted to the east. If god is making this an asian century by physical means..we should do our part atleast economically.

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Re: A pipe dream?

How goes it?

Your point on the partition generation is the exact one I made. I think thats the key, its hard for some 20 year old in Bombay or Karachi to harbor genuine ill will to each other drawn from their own experiences.

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Re: A pipe dream?

haha. dream on..if anything, its the partition generation that crossed over that actually keeps indianness alive in pakistan…once its dead and the kids are dead, its saudia all the way…with progress, our Muslim identity is all thats going to linger on…we are incidently ‘west’ of india…the west only looks onto east for exoticness and mystery, not for anything else…any advances that way are only for entertainment…indian films ki hi had tak raho, humari asal possiblites middle east mai hain…:snooty:

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Re: A pipe dream?

well, I would not blame the past generation who endured all the hardships in their days. Let me just say that in our part of the world, most of what happens, happens when there is a change in the mindset or realization of some sort at the top level. I understand that ordinary citizen on both sides of the border is least borthered about the arms race and hardly see India as an evil (and vice versa) at a time when they are plagued by so many issues of their own. In the same way, the younger generation is more understanding of the situation on the ground and finds little substance and depth in the negative politics pursued over the years that literally became the hallmark of south asian polity. (today's BBC. India, quesion time is a case in point).
However, no matter what these people think, it is indeed the quite change at the state level that has opened the doors of reconciliation between the two countries. The bottom up approach could be effective but I do not think 'they' are a powerful force to contend with atleast in our region. I feel that if we would not have been given the ashirbaad from our leaders, a straight 'go ahead' we would not have witnessed such an atmosphere of bon homie.