A little concerned about the future ...

[Anil_Khan]

To be blantantly honest: I’m part of a dieing breed.

I’m religious but I’m not an extremist. I’m patriotic but I don’t dress like a Pakistani. My thinking is traditional but I’m also defined by the many modernities of current life.
In general, with all praise due to Allah, I’m quite happy with the way I turned out.

But when I look towards the future I get concerned. I’m not sure how my children will turn out in life. Now, there is no doubt that Allah (swt) is the maalik of all worlds and all things in it but we, as parents, have an influence on how our children turn out.

I wonder sometimes that with the baysharmi that is here in the west, if my son(s) will be able to control themselves from the temptations like i have? I wonder if my daughter will commit herself to only having interactions with the oppisite sex on important issues? I wonder if my children will have the same passion and love of our background and of our zameen that I have? I also wonder if my children will honour me and my wife like I have and will continue to do (inshAllah, inshAllah) with my parents?

A permanent move to Pakistan is not the correct solution because unfortunately the education system there is flawed and I would want my children to be educated, intellectual professionals.

I don’t intend to have children for another 8-9 years (first gotta get married ) but still, I get concerned when I think about the future.

Your thoughts?

[Degas]

Re: A little concerned about the future ...

just typical ramblings of a desi!!!!

Not clear .. wash away these guilty laundry somewhere... why worry about something that that is so distant.. i usually met in States who cry tears all teh time making themselves and their kids miserable.. how can someone has the same love for a country or land that one has never seen or lived!!! education is Pakistan is excellent these days.. students fromhere excel all over the world.. choice is quite clear.. i left for Pakistan few years back as determined to enjoy life here as i had enjoyed living abroad..

[sweet_taboo]

Re: A little concerned about the future ...

I don't plan on having kids anymore so I don't care how Pakistan or any other place turns out for the future generations.

With my hedonistic lifestyle it would have been hard protecting my kids from vice and bringing them up with values and morals.

I just need to find a Paki chick who doesn't mind not having kids.

[mercenary2k]

Re: A little concerned about the future ...

To be blantantly honest: I'm part of a dieing breed.

I'm religious but I'm not an extremist. I'm patriotic but I don't dress like a Pakistani. My thinking is traditional but I'm also defined by the many modernities of current life. In general, with all praise due to Allah, I'm quite happy with the way I turned out.

But when I look towards the future I get concerned. I'm not sure how my children will turn out in life. Now, there is no doubt that Allah (swt) is the maalik of all worlds and all things in it but we, as parents, have an influence on how our children turn out.

I wonder sometimes that with the baysharmi that is here in the west, if my son(s) will be able to control themselves from the temptations like i have? I wonder if my daughter will commit herself to only having interactions with the oppisite sex on important issues? I wonder if my children will have the same passion and love of our background and of our zameen that I have? I also wonder if my children will honour me and my wife like I have and will continue to do (inshAllah, inshAllah) with my parents?

A permanent move to Pakistan is not the correct solution because unfortunately the education system there is flawed and I would want my children to be educated, intellectual professionals.

I don't intend to have children for another 8-9 years (first gotta get married :) ) but still, I get concerned when I think about the future.

Your thoughts?

you sound like me :D

[S02]

Re: A little concerned about the future ...

You're not the only one. I don't know if there's one simple answer to this, but I imagine every generation asks these same questions -- and is sometimes pleasantly surprised and other times very disappointed. Sometimes that's the fault and responsibility of the new generation that too soon disregards the teachings and wisdom of the past. And sometimes -- perhaps often -- that is the fault of the older generation clinging to an understanding of things that is overly simplified, inaccurate, or illogical.

[Munni]

Re: A little concerned about the future ...

Consider the early muslims. The society they lived in. The society they brought up their children in.

I think parents that really interact with their children can make a world of difference as to how they are raised and whom they are influenced by.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: A little concerned about the future ...

anil

the issues that you talk about are present in Pakistan as well, the video of some girls school chicas kissing were quite infamous on youtube just recently.

Expectation that your kids will have the same passion for Pakistan as you do is a wrong expectation, it simply will not happen. and when you go to your grandkids it would be even less. look at italian americans, few generations down and they share very little with italians, each generation is more and more different from ppl from their country of origin. Is that necessarily bad?

My folks were born in India, cities I have never been to, cities that hold meaning to me as the birthplace of my parents, grandparents etc. a sense that this is where my family comes from, but that is not where they always lived..what about places the family came from before, as generations pass you have passion for stuff from a few generations ao and the rest is history that is of interest to you but would it hold the same meaning to you that it did to you great greatgreat great garndparents? I doubt it

Think about it for yourselves. dont set such expectations for your kids.

And while you may be worried about their interactiosn with the opposite gender and while that is something one is more concerned about in the west more than in Pakistan. Parental guidance plays a big role. We all know people born and raised in Uk, US or Canada and how varied they are, even after living in teh same city and going to the same school.

[Mamaof3]

Re: A little concerned about the future ...

It seems to me that when you think too deeply about life phases that you arent yet ready for, thats when all these doubts and fears arise. Take your life one phase at a time. Have a general plan, sure .. but dont sweat the specific things about future phases too much.

I had this blissful idea about "when I have kids", I wanted them to have much the same type of childhood that I had. Times are so different now that its not remotely possible. So I had to adapt. Thats all we can do. We can give our kids the best we have, do our best to instill the values that are important to us. Worrying about the specifics - "Will my boys be tempted by sex? Will my daughters want to date? " These questions are answered with the values they have been taught as they grow up. These are things that are way in the back of my mind as I teach them how to respect others and be polite etc. But I dont specifically think about those things too much since we've still yet to get them thru elementary school.

Specific worries and plans for the current life phase. General worries and plans for the next phases yeah?

Hope this helps a bit.

[hareem01]

Re: A little concerned about the future …

@Anil_Khan

To be blantantly honest: I’m part of a dieing breed.

I’m religious but I’m not an extremist. I’m patriotic but I don’t dress like a Pakistani. My thinking is traditional but I’m also defined by the many modernities of current life.
In general, with all praise due to Allah, I’m quite happy with the way I turned out.

But when I look towards the future I get concerned. I’m not sure how my children will turn out in life. Now, there is no doubt that Allah (swt) is the maalik of all worlds and all things in it but we, as parents, have an influence on how our children turn out.

I wonder sometimes that with the baysharmi that is here in the west, if my son(s) will be able to control themselves from the temptations like i have? I wonder if my daughter will commit herself to only having interactions with the oppisite sex on important issues? I wonder if my children will have the same passion and love of our background and of our zameen that I have? I also wonder if my children will honour me and my wife like I have and will continue to do (inshAllah, inshAllah) with my parents?

A permanent move to Pakistan is not the correct solution because unfortunately the education system there is flawed and I would want my children to be educated, intellectual professionals.

I don’t intend to have children for another 8-9 years (first gotta get married ) but still, I get concerned when I think about the future.

Your thoughts?

ummm…I pray to Allah that may you have a pious wife and obedient children, and remember the hadith of Prophet Muhammad(SAW), “The child is the master for seven years; and a slave for seven years and a vizier for seven years; so if he grows into a good character within 21 years, well and good; otherwise leave him alone because you have discharged your responsibility before Allah.”

The same hadith has been explained by Imam Ja`far as-Sadiq (a.s.): “Let your child play upto seven years; and keep him with you (for education and training) for another seven years; then if he succeeds (well and good); otherwise, there is no good in him.”

this great article by Imam Zaid Shaykh will also help inshaAllah.

http://www.zaytuna.org/articleDetails.asp?articleID=94

Also try reading this book "Toxic Childhood by Sue Palmer http://www.suepalmer.co.uk/toxic.php to understand the factors behind negative changes in the behaviour of children in this competitive and consumer-driven western society.

[kaka_in_usa]

Re: A little concerned about the future …

@Fraudz

anil

the issues that you talk about are present in Pakistan as well, the video of some girls school chicas kissing were quite infamous on youtube just recently.

Expectation that your kids will have the same passion for Pakistan as you do is a wrong expectation, it simply will not happen. and when you go to your grandkids it would be even less. look at italian americans, few generations down and they share very little with italians, each generation is more and more different from ppl from their country of origin. Is that necessarily bad?

My folks were born in India, cities I have never been to, cities that hold meaning to me as the birthplace of my parents, grandparents etc. a sense that this is where my family comes from, but that is not where they always lived..what about places the family came from before, as generations pass you have passion for stuff from a few generations ao and the rest is history that is of interest to you but would it hold the same meaning to you that it did to you great greatgreat great garndparents? I doubt it

Think about it for yourselves. dont set such expectations for your kids.

And while you may be worried about their interactiosn with the opposite gender and while that is something one is more concerned about in the west more than in Pakistan. Parental guidance plays a big role. We all know people born and raised in Uk, US or Canada and how varied they are, even after living in teh same city and going to the same school.

Wait… your parents were born in India, and you never lived in Pakistan… so you are an Indian

[masoom_se_larki]

Re: A little concerned about the future …

ah i have the same concerns sometimes i look around and see all the ignorance, hatred, and disbelieve that is in this world.. and i worry when i see small elementary school children that know everything.. things we didn’t know until much later. it scares me as well. i think the youth of today is slowly forgetting so many beautiful things of our culture. even i am ashamed myself because i can’t write urdu & that fault is not due to my parents, whom have done a wonderful job i think of teaching me urdu and instilling in me the values that they pride, despite the fact that i was born here. even still when ppl meet me they r surprised at how i can speak urdu so well. i think raising children is one of the most difficult tasks in this world, and it is a great accomplishment when u kno u have raised a good human being. no one is perfect and everyone has their faults. i just leave everything to Allah and InshAllah will try my best. remember the outcome is only half in our hands.. we shud have good intentions and try our best and Inshallah Allah will guide us all.

[Ansoon]

Re: A little concerned about the future ...

Anil, its the matter of facing the reality and fighting it head-on. So what if the world is turning in the wrong direction.. take this as a challenge and ask Allah to help you get through this challenge. You are going in the right direction, you need to start thinking about these issues and find a solution to them.

I am assuming that you are in your twenties, so get up and start doing something about it. No one else is going to fix things for you. Think positive just like our Prophet (PBUH) did when he was faaced with difficult time. Allah will help those who help themselves - something that we Muslims seem to have forgotten.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: A little concerned about the future …

@kaka_in_usa

Wait… your parents were born in India, and you never lived in Pakistan… so you are an Indian

parents were born in India, moved to pakistan. I was born in UK, but I did spend 2 years in Pakistan during my teens.

officially I am only British.

[Mostar95]

Re: A little concerned about the future ...

I don't plan on having kids anymore so I don't care how Pakistan or any other place turns out for the future generations.

But you need kids at later years of your life!

[Anil_Khan]

Re: A little concerned about the future ...

anil

the issues that you talk about are present in Pakistan as well, the video of some girls school chicas kissing were quite infamous on youtube just recently.

Expectation that your kids will have the same passion for Pakistan as you do is a wrong expectation, it simply will not happen. and when you go to your grandkids it would be even less. look at italian americans, few generations down and they share very little with italians, each generation is more and more different from ppl from their country of origin. Is that necessarily bad?

My folks were born in India, cities I have never been to, cities that hold meaning to me as the birthplace of my parents, grandparents etc. a sense that this is where my family comes from, but that is not where they always lived..what about places the family came from before, as generations pass you have passion for stuff from a few generations ao and the rest is history that is of interest to you but would it hold the same meaning to you that it did to you great greatgreat great garndparents? I doubt it

Think about it for yourselves. dont set such expectations for your kids.

And while you may be worried about their interactiosn with the opposite gender and while that is something one is more concerned about in the west more than in Pakistan. Parental guidance plays a big role. We all know people born and raised in Uk, US or Canada and how varied they are, even after living in teh same city and going to the same school.

Fraudia bhai, I don't think its a wrong expectation for our children to be proud of their background. Pakistanis is what we are and I think our children should heed this and wear their nationality on their sleeves. I agree that italian americans have forgotten about their country of origin and I'm sure the majority of Pakistani-americans, canadians and brits (of future generations) will forget their country of origin; but this reality feels like a punch in the gut to me.
I'm reminded of a quote from the movie The Good Shepperd where Joe Peschi's charcter asks Matt Damon's character "We italians have our family; the niggers have their music, the jews their tradition. What do you have?"
So I asked myself what to we have as Pakistanis? and the answer I came up with is Sindh, West Punjab, Baluchistan, Frontier, and Kashmir; that is, we have our LAND, our own zameen. This is the gift that Allah rab-ulizzat gave through the efforts of ganaab Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Allama Iqbal sahaab, prince Sultan Aga Khan and others.
And I feel that all Pakistanis current and future should understand how great their land of origin is.

But the true issue is instilling these ideas into our children's minds; I wouldn't know how to instill traditional values into them here in the west, I wouldn't know how make them proud of their identity.

[Anil_Khan]

Re: A little concerned about the future …

@hareem01

ummm…I pray to Allah that may you have a pious wife and obedient children, and remember the hadith of Prophet Muhammad(SAW), “The child is the master for seven years; and a slave for seven years and a vizier for seven years; so if he grows into a good character within 21 years, well and good; otherwise leave him alone because you have discharged your responsibility before Allah.”

The same hadith has been explained by Imam Ja`far as-Sadiq (a.s.): “Let your child play upto seven years; and keep him with you (for education and training) for another seven years; then if he succeeds (well and good); otherwise, there is no good in him.”

this great article by Imam Zaid Shaykh will also help inshaAllah.

http://www.zaytuna.org/articleDetails.asp?articleID=94

Also try reading this book "Toxic Childhood by Sue Palmer http://www.suepalmer.co.uk/toxic.php to understand the factors behind negative changes in the behaviour of children in this competitive and consumer-driven western society.

Happy to see you put ‘a.s.’ after Imam Jafar as-sadiq and not ‘r.a.’ :).

And a solid overall post.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: A little concerned about the future ...

anil, i see what you are saying...but lets look at it from another perspective, many pakistais say they are arab, greek, central asian, turk, persian whatever. now how many of them speak arabic, turkish, greek etc and have any traditions from those cultures that they follow knowingly.

as time passes, it will diminish. you can maintain an identity but a 3rd generation brit is more than likely not going to have the same affinity for pakistan as hs grand dad did.

[Anil_Khan]

Re: A little concerned about the future ...

Anil, its the matter of facing the reality and fighting it head-on. So what if the world is turning in the wrong direction.. take this as a challenge and ask Allah to help you get through this challenge. You are going in the right direction, you need to start thinking about these issues and find a solution to them.

I am assuming that you are in your twenties, so get up and start doing something about it. No one else is going to fix things for you. Think positive just like our Prophet (PBUH) did when he was faaced with difficult time. Allah will help those who help themselves - something that we Muslims seem to have forgotten.

I'm 21.

I can only control (although the concept of a person controlling anything in this world is laughable since Allah is the master and controller of all things) or influence my children; but future children of Pakistani background forgetting their origin is, i believe, a serious problem.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: A little concerned about the future ...

waisay..pakistai toh kaafi pakistan mein rehnay walay bhi naheen huay :D

[Anil_Khan]

Re: A little concerned about the future ...

@Fraudz

anil, i see what you are saying...but lets look at it from another perspective, many pakistais say they are arab, greek, central asian, turk, persian whatever. now how many of them speak arabic, turkish, greek etc and have any traditions from those cultures that they follow knowingly.

as time passes, it will diminish. you can maintain an identity but a 3rd generation brit is more than likely not going to have the same affinity for pakistan as hs grand dad did.

I agree and I have also read posts here on GS where people say they are half this and a quarter that; and maybe they are right; if sindhis say their ancestors are persians or if pashtuns say they are afghans I have no problem with that because the great thing about Pakistan is that it has multiple ethnicities (but its also a source of tension w/i the country). But as long as these people are loyal to Pakistan and consider it their home and willing to defend it, they have my respect.

I also agree with your second point about the admiration for Pakistan diminishing with the passing of generations; and this is the core issue of the thread: how do we prevent this from happening? But perhaps a more critical question would be: Does it matter if future generations don't care or lose interest or are NOT passionate about Pakistan?