You can say a Dictator’s view of democratic alliances.
“Being an ally of the United States is like living on the banks of an enormous river. The soil is wonderfully fertile, but every four or eight years, the river changes course and you may find yourself in a desert, alone.” to CIA Director William Casey at the height of Afghan War.
For sure he was left in the desert, along with his top brass. :(
the river did change course after the Ruskies were thrown out, didnt it :D Lets see how long the current course last before the soil is inundated once agan.
Yeah I was impressed reading it coming from Zia. Not a big fan of his, I do confess he had some brain cells even if he used them unwisely. Anyway, if Mushy didn't learn from the desert of late 60s or of 80s than he can just relieve the army to go home and move to Burmuda to chill & let the civilian thugs run the place.
He prolly will want to go to Turkey instead but that only depends on his health and for how long he can stay dry :>
"Being an ally of the United States is like living on the banks of an enormous river. The soil is wonderfully fertile, but every four or eight years, the river changes course and you may find yourself in a desert, alone."
Or you may find yourself drowned in a flood or getting a little moist at least.
Re: A gem from Zia
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
You can say a Dictator's view of democratic alliances.
"Being an ally of the United States is like living on the banks of an enormous river. ...
[/QUOTE]
Poor Zia couldn't think beyond Ravi and the desert of MAToo Mullahs.
Military really needed help from Pak educated elite. Unfortunately the elite turned out to be commie or leftie or both. We as a nation never tried to understand that UK is gone and US is totally different entity. I’d update the analysis of US as following:
** Being an Ally of US means living in Silicon Valley and vying for the enormous venture capital. You have two options:
Zia and Ayub never understood this difference, as they never had support from the educated elite. In the process working on hourly wages shortchanged Pakistan.
Zia and Ayub both were good soldiers. May God bless their souls.
Ahh the lovers of Venture Capital, AntiOBL ;) its not very hard to recognize you, old habits don’t die, I am surprised.
Anyway, scoring big has always been your goal, but old colonial habits of our army cannot change in 10 years. The Pakistani Army has never stayed out of power for more than 6 or 7 years. The military in Pakistan with the help of educated elite has always stayed in power with a colonial mindset. It was not the jahils and guwars of layelpur or Muridkay who put these people in power. It was the educated elite like Justice Nisar who paved the way for this military rule. As far as the US is concerned, US needs the army for its purposes and the army needs the US to stay in power,... Ahh this reminds me of OBL.
Sure, Sikander Mirza, Ayub, Yahya, Tikka, Sahibzada Yaqoob Khan and Zia were and and are good soldiers, so is Musherraf. So lets see how far in the river he drowns him self.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
Not a big fan of his, I do confess he had some brain cells even if he used them unwisely.
[/QUOTE]
I disagree with a number of policies by Zia, but I am sure he was a very intelligent person. He ruled a nation of 120 million people for 11 years and, had he not been assassinated, he had no intention of stepping down either. We can't say the same for many other 'bright' people. Plus, in terms of foreign policies he was truly a great diplomat. Again and again, he would put his foes on the back foot, trying to guess his next step.
Faisal Bhaijaan, I totally disagree.
His hands are as dirty in the blood & turmoil of Afghans as is the CIAs, Saudis or the Russians.
Had The Russians kept on their side of the border & not make it into a problem of their pride, US would have a very different policy on Pakistan especially as the CIA was hell bent to shut down Pakistan’s nuclear ambitions. Just like 9/11 came as a blessing in disguise for the current Pakistani general, so did the Soviet brutal takeover of the Kabul poured in millions of American Tax payer dollars & Saudi’s petro money into Zia’s bank accounts. Otherwise, the army was a few years away to run the country into a brick wall.
I consider it Allah looking out for Pakistan, otherwise the leaders had tried their best to make their people’s life miserable.
Hain.. where did I say his hands are not dirty or not bloodied. I did say that I disagreed with his policies (many of them, at least). But none of that takes away the fact that he was a shrewed politician. I give the same back-handed compliment to Bhutto too. I disagree with his politics, but I think he was truly a genius when it came to political menouvering and out-smarting his opponents. Yes, so in their greed they both may have damaged Pakistan (we can each have our opinion on that), but thats another discussion.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Faisal: *
I disagree with a number of policies by Zia, but I am sure he was a very intelligent person. He ruled a nation of 120 million people for 11 years and, had he not been **assassinated*, he had no intention of stepping down either. We can't say the same for many other 'bright' people. Plus, in terms of foreign policies he was truly a great diplomat. Again and again, he would put his foes on the back foot, trying to guess his next step.
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bhai humne to suna tha ki woh plane crash main mar gaye the! is that a typo?
So you are one of those who say ke plane khud hi girr giya.. just fell out of sky? Well, in that case, obviously you won't call it "assassination". Is 'accidental death' more like it, for you?
Re: A gem from Zia
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
.... every four or eight years, the river changes course ....
[/QUOTE]
… Zia is saying the same thing that Ayub lamented in his "Friends and not Masters",
Or
… Gen. Hamid-a Gul-badan more crassly explains in terms of condoms.
Ayub was not a slave nor a friend, but simply a "partner" for anti-Soviet alliance. Gul-Badan was also a partner and not a condom (unless he insists to be one)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
..... Dictator's view of democratic alliances.
[/QUOTE]
Modern day alliances have nothing to do with dictatorship or democracy. Otherwise China won't be doing $billions business with US.
Post WW-II order demands stability, and business friendly policy (in that order) in every part of the world.
You mess up with stability; the world will make you history. You don't have business friendly policies; you would be left to rot.
Both Pak and Bharti armies have a long history as a stabilizing force. Bharati army couldn't be a partner due to Show-Shaw-list leanings of the country until the advent of Baja-pipe. Pakistani army needs to be aware that bunch of future “stabilizing” projects may go to Bharat.
Pak-army so far is more important that it can positively influence Middle East and Africa. That is where planning by Pak think tanks count. You predict an oncoming crisis; be it fire, earthquake, flood, or some thug like Sad-Damn. You prepare a policy paper, and then you show up at NATO head quarter or at the Pentagon. You apply for 5 such "projects" and you may get funded for 2.
That will ensure you will be a partner even if the "river" changes its course. This has got to happen, simply because you will have an advance knowledge of the future direction.
Off course this type of strategic planning doesn't concern the MAToos. They are too brain dead. Poor Halwa Khors!
agree.. we don't see any prominent Pakistani lobbyists in CFR or CRG etc..
Re: Re: A gem from Zia
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Modern day alliances have nothing to do with dictatorship or democracy. Otherwise China won't be doing $billions business with US.
Post WW-II order demands stability, and business friendly policy (in that order) in every part of the world.
You mess up with stability; the world will make you history. You don't have business friendly policies; you would be left to rot....
Off course this type of strategic planning doesn't concern the MAToos. They are too brain dead. Poor Halwa Khors!
[/QUOTE]
You sure said it right, its a new order of colonization in which for the stabilization of few, and to safe guard their own business friendly policies they can destroy all other markets or in your word "creating new markets at home". As per Pakistani and Indian Armies are concerned, the last I heard both had their hands full in blood rather than stabilization.
So dear pick a side, Military-American-Tatoo's (MAToos) planning would be good for the new order only. Or may be this is what you stand for?
Re: Re: Re: A gem from Zia
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*Originally posted by MiniMe: *
.....to safe guard their own business friendly policies they [Western powers] can destroy all other markets .....
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Post WW-II US "destroyed" markets of China, Hong Kong, South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia, the whole EU, Bharat and you name it.
Commie lefties on the other hand wanted to create jobs and bad bad uncle Sam stopped them. Commies are gone and now MAToo terrorists have picked up the commie leftie flag. I say may Stalin be with you! May you prosper in the commie land (or is it the Disney land of Mini-mouse?).
P.S. MAToos are angry that lately they haven't seen Shia mosques blown up, or Ahamadi houses burnt, or Christian churches bloodied. Poor halwa khors are being hunted in Wana.
One of the best things he did was to bring the bill against Qadiyanis.