A Desi Rainbow Coalition??? Hee Hee

Lifestyle Relationships
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adoption is very much promoted in islam, what people get caught in is semantics..if you think of the islamic concept of adoption similar to fostercare there is no issue.

children can be mehram to parents, if they have been nursed, and they are mehrem to the 'parents' biological kids as well. IN the end we are not animals and one does not look at his or her adopted kid and say wow..lookin fine, come here and gimme some lovin'

There are issues in terms of inheritence, however there is nothing stopping the beneficiaries from gifting their sharaee inheritance to the 'adopted' kids.

while there is no munh bola rishta in islam, cousins are na mehram too, but that is something where many people dont observe any sort of hijab etc.

you are correct about one actor..woody allen marrying the girl he adopted, and I dont think it was after the wife died anyways. But using that one guy as an example is not very responsible.

and sorry to say, orphanages or such facilities do not compare to the home atmosphere.

Maut ka farishta rishwat nahin leta!
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**You can’t be more wrong. Hazrat Muhammad [SAW] on many occasions have said that a person who adopts an orphan will go to heaven.
**

Woody Allen.

Its called Muslim Hands. Cost only $30 a month. Seriously, who among us, in [NA or EU], cannot put down $30 a month? Even students who are paying for themselves can.

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Re: A Desi Rainbow Coalition??? Hee Hee

^ agree...

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Re: A Desi Rainbow Coalition??? Hee Hee

woody allen is a horrible and pathetic example to use against adoption.

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Re: A Desi Rainbow Coalition??? Hee Hee

it would be equal to use one of those jackasses examples who kill their daughters with the whole honour killing business to discourage having daughters...

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Re: A Desi Rainbow Coalition??? Hee Hee

OK. I was definitely not clear. Nor I tried to give a fatwa!

Adoption after a certain age can cause problem. If the baby was nursed then it makes it simpler. Mahram and Na-Mahrum is not to me or anyone here to settle. What I heard i mentioned and asked someone can check.

Encouraging adoption of orphanage by the prophet needs explaination also. Like I mentioned, up to a certain age the child can be brought up at home.

Cousins are supposed to be considered na-mahrum as per religious teachings. it just is not a norm I do understand.
Besides in other religions cousins are considered sisters/brothers. Not in islam.

The example of Woody Allen was to show one can mary adopted girl. She was not his real daughter. I think it doesn’t matter if his wife died or not.

There is a controversy on issue of the prophet marying the ex-wife of his adopted son (Zainub).

Simply put: Adoption has great responsibility and one has to have some knowledge about what it may pertain. Legally or religiously.

No one is saying we are animals or what, its just a fact. There is no such thing as "munh Bola Rishta in islam. One may feel awkward and has difficulty to accept thats fine, I would too, but reality is that marriage is possible without any problem between adopted person and adopted parent OR adopted and real brothers/sisters… if its not a milk child/milk brother-sister.

Best thing:
Adopt for a certain age.
Never hide true parents and try to give child his/her true family name.
Provide best and complete care even if natural child is born AFTER adoting someone.
Give full allocated inheritance to real children according to rules. Meaning do not divide wealth with adopted child lest it becomes an issue of jealousy between real and adopted children.
Off course try best and some mistakes are forgiven as in the verse.

Did not like to make it religious discussion but someone can read this.

Adoption in Islam

About adopting and prophet marriage.

Adoption

Peace.

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Re: A Desi Rainbow Coalition??? Hee Hee

good so the statement that 'adoption' is not very much promoted in islam is not factually correct.

people take the western adoption and then compare it to islamic concept of adoption and then say, adoption in general is not promoted.

the correct and responsible statement would be that islam promotes adoption with certain conditions.

thats it.

and one more thing...

technically from a mehram perspective there is zero difference between cousins, or uncles/nieces, aunts/nephews. marriage is possible there too, or between dewar/bhabhi, or a dude and his sali. and the norm for many families is that you treat your spouse's siblings like your own and parents as your own while there is no mehram relationship, and when it comes to nieces and nephews, u treat them as if they are like your kids even thought they are na mehram..well u know.

possible does not mean thats what you go for. just because it is possible is nt a good enough reason to discourage adoption.

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Re: A Desi Rainbow Coalition??? Hee Hee

^ Sure. I should have been more clear. It does become difficult for someone to adopt if tries to follow the rules/conditions as they are.

In other cultures its much easier but we just do not know what other religions say about it. They maybe even harder. Just like it was not allowed to mary ex-wife of adopted son at the time of the Prophet. Which prompted the verse to make it easy for someone interested and more importantly to abolish that custom.

Oh, one thing I might add. I have no detailed knowledge of Woody Allen aside from watching someof his movies etc. But if thats what he did marying his adopted daughter then nothing wrong with that. One may just say Ewwwww.. As long as she was not nursed by his wife, then obvously its not good.

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Re: A Desi Rainbow Coalition??? Hee Hee

diwana its actually not that hard, the place adoption is hidden is Pakistan due to taboos and the fear that the child may no be treated well by others around him/her. The issue you brought up regarding nursing and thus preference to go for a younger kid, coupled with the secrecy mean that older kids who have been abandoned or orphaned dont get a home..and by older i dont mean 13, i mean anything more than a couple months old.

next you have the issue of giving the child its parents name, which you dont know in many cases for abandoned kids. then the recommendation is that you u give them the last name abdullah etc, which is just a recommendation, however there is no harm in them having the same last name as adoptive parents as long as the fact that they are adopted is not a secret. issue being that in our society kids without their background info will be illtreated, and by having a banner of a last name of abdullah or amatullah is just a license to others to treat them poorly, so its in their interests. IN old days the records were not there these days the records are all over so you have to make an effort to hide otherwise its open anyways.

Then you have the issue of inheritence, and as I mentioned the sharaee beneficiaries can gift their

Its just that ppl follow the word and not the essence, which leads to situations like teh couple in who adopted a girl, and then they died in a car accident, the guy's brothrs took his property and booted the daughter. sorry mon ami...but in my view while in shariah she did not have a right over her adoptive father's assets, but in my view it was also not very muslim of what her 'uncles' did to her. had it not been for her adoptive father's friends taking her in, she would be on the street. can u imagibe the trauma for a child who grew up in a family atmosphere and then being just tossed on the street.

I am not trying to be aggressive here at all, and my frustration is not with you at all but just the general misconcpetions in society at large.

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Re: A Desi Rainbow Coalition??? Hee Hee

^I hear you. All points well taken.
One has to know rules and only then is able to conform to the situation. In the end aim should be benefit to society.

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its just our society X2. People use Islam where they want and turn a blind eye when it suits them.

I feel for the kid.. i dont know about Islam, but how is that even justified as humane? Sure she may not be blood.. but she is a human and she was very much part of the family. It's wrong on all levels.

I sometimes feel, this is one reason why people in our culture are so reluctant to adopt. The fear of what other people will think. More than what peopel will think.. I think people ought to educate these jaahil laug (even if they are family members)... this is so upsetting

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Re: A Desi Rainbow Coalition??? Hee Hee

sadz not all ppl are that way, I know ppl who have adopted in pakistan and are open about it, but the overwheming majority of adoptions in Pakistan are secret, this si traight from mrs bilquis edhi and her view was, yes its sad that it has to be thr case but it is for teh child's welfare and she wished that was not the case, so seeks forgiveness for being part of it, but feels a bigger sin would be to let the kids languish in orphange and grow up to be a marginalized person

One Song, Different Singers Competition [OPEN NOW]
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Re: A Desi Rainbow Coalition??? Hee Hee

^ yeah i know... I have known a few people here (of desi decent) who have adopted and Mashallah their kid (who is my age) has done really well. And it was known by everyone that she was adopted.

Its the majority that sadden me and not the people adopting but the people around (extended family) who are so reluctant to accept. And that is because they are not educated.. do not have full knowledge...

Dr Shaista 3rd Marriage!!!
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Re: A Desi Rainbow Coalition??? Hee Hee

I have always wanted to do this. The thing is, recently Ive actually voiced my intentions and got a little resistance from family. One member said that until I give birth I will never know what it means to be a real mother. I found this offensive. There are natural mothers who walk away from their own everyday. Does becoming pregnant make you a mother or does Allah swt make you a mother? I know carrying life has a beauty on its own and is incomparable but does not being a natural mother make me less of a mom?

Also, adoption is not for everyone. If someone feels they can be just and fair to both: natural adopted children - they should do it.

Additionally, if I raised all of my kids - natural and adopted - as one family then why am I leaving inheritance for only natural children? Isnt that unfair?

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PSquared - I would love to adopt. I have 2 girls of my own. But I seriously feel that my family and my in laws (our society and culture in general) would not be fair to the child. (NOT mean or rude but indirectly they would do love them as much)

Then they bring the whole islam issue into it - what you can't give them your last name etc. Eventually I'll have to seprate my daughters if I adopt a boy.
You have to tell them that they are adopted.

I don't want these restrictions in the home so I decided not to.

My cousin feels the same way. She wants to adopt a Chinese baby, a black one and desi one. She is very inspired from Angelina Jolie but I feel like out culture is so backward - I don't want my children to be judged or made fun of because of my choices.

I don't think you need to have kids of your own to be a good parent. Personally there are sooooooooo many muslim kids in Africa and India and Pakistan that need good homes. If you don't care what people say or how they act - I say go for it!

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from what I understand it was aguidance given to tackle the issue where people would 'adopt' orphans and then get their hands on the wealth left by the orphan's parents so inheritance and all is seperate.

secondly, it was actually dont to promote adoption, so a person's beneficiaries like children and siblings dont discourge the person from adopting since they would not have any financial threat from it.

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look, if you adopt an deceased friends or reltives kid its a diff issue, but for an abandoned kid, you have no info, so what name do you give the child. pick a random name? or just use the one that you have. hiding te fact that theya re adopted is something where religion and psychology agree. tell them, dont hide it like some bad thing.