A Big mistake that all make here is quoting out the Quranic Ayaat and Ahadeez without reading its tafseer. They make their own tafseer. I think you dont know that most of they Sahaba(R.A) would shake and tremble when quoting a Hadeez. They always Said Hazrat Mohammad (PBUH) said that , or he said more or less …This was the state of Hazrat Usman (R.A).. Why was this ?? it was beacuse Hazrat Mohammad (PBUH) said which summarizes that if aperson deliver a wrong hadeez he will find himself in Jahannam.
Hazrat Abu Bakar siddique(R.A) could not sleep the whole night after the demise of Hazrat Mohammad (PBUH) because of he was having a whole bundle which was written by him as hadeez from Hazrat Mohammad(PBUH). He thought that if i wrote something wrong in there and now i dont have Hazrat Mohammad (PBUH) with me to correct it. Then i will go to Jahannam . so the first thing he did in the morning was to burn that bundle.
This was the state of those people about which quran says Razi-Allah(Allah un say Razi hai). Then why the heck we all quote a hadeez so easily and make a story of our own. The Tafseer needs a training of 9 years and a person should be having at hand 9 different types of alooms to figure out what a quranic verse really says and what it really means and what hadeez said and what it really meant.
Without reading any of the tafseer we just go on and quote a thing that we even dont know about.
I posted my thread of Alaamat-e-Qayamat after reading 6 different books and wrote a summary from there . May Allah forgive me if i gave less or more.
So please before quoting something or getting something out of it . Fathom that you know what it really means or consult to Quranic tafseer for this.
Masha' allah, that is something true. I see this happening in the forum over and over by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. I keep repeating the message, but people continue to quote things out of context.
for anyone who want to read books on the tafsir of the qur’an, i would suggest tafsir ibn kathir, Tafsir At-Tabarî, and the tafsir done by [font=Trebuchet MS]Ismail ibn Abd al-Rahman Suddi. You can also get the noble qur’an (in 9 volumes).
Doesn't the Quran also say that a muslim can read and understand the Quran without an interpreter?
And if Tafsir is done by humans, then isn't there the chance of bias coming into the picture.
By the way, Hadeeth were recorded well after the Prophet died. Everyone knows that even the caliphs did not want hadith's to be recorded for the fear that it would be mixed up with the Word of God.
You cannot even fathom the things that i said in the first post then how can you say that you can do tafseer with 100% accuracy. And who said that Hazrat Abu Bakar (R.A) burned the bundle because it was going to mixed up with word of God. He was fearing that if i had written the wrong words in writing hadeez(which is most likely he didnt) which were not used by Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) then i am going to be a culprit of spreading the wrong hadeez.
As i have cleared that it is not possible for a common man to fathom the knowledge in b/w the lines of Quran. Every verse can have 10 possible meanings which will lead you to confusion and reading it out of context will make it even worse. Hazrat Mohammad (PBUH) said which summarizes that to take education even if u have to reach the distant land china. So without education of Tafseer and fiqah a common man’s torch is the book of tafseer if wants to get the in depth analysis.
hmmm… a well-known fabricated hadith… the part “distant land china” (wa law bis-sin) being the fabricated component (the authentic version of the hadith does not have this addition) as a number of hadith masters have shown (Cf. Al Dhahabi’s Tartib al Mawdu’at, 111; al Shawkani’s al Fawa’id al Majmu’a, 851)… of course, seeking knowledge is encouraged and necessary but we don’t need this spurious hadith to prove it…
and i think you are going too far… you seem to make the Qur’an and hadith untouchable and unapproachable for Muslims in general… and in contrast there are others with a DIY approach who can’t even understand the basics of Arabic grammar and the meaning and origin of Qur’anic/hadith words and terms or historical context and they think they stand as champions of Islamic jurisprudence and commentary…
the middle approach, as usual, is the best… many aspects of Qur’an and hadith are understood and deciphered by all (and not necessarily just in Arabic) but only a fool would kid himself into thinking that there aren’t other aspects that do require some specialist knowledge and research
Oh my Good GOD . I dont think the people who spend 9 years studying fiqah are doing something for hangout with friends and having fun. They are spending their lives upon getting the knowledge of quran to Muslims in a easiest way possible by tafseer. The best way is to read quran regularly and the things that you understand take them to your mind and work on those and the things that you dont understand leave them like that and start reading ahead when you think that you did the Nazraa. Then there is the time to learn Quran by heart and go in to depth with tafseer already written by scholars. In Todays life i cannot even think that what you think about a verse of quran can be true it can be made through the contexual meaning or figuritive meaning or the words meaning or else . But the study of Quran and fiqah will lead us to the most preferable meaning which is Allah Trying to say.
I dont think my talk is leaving the Hadeez & Quran Untouchable in any manner. All i am trying to say is be very safe and sure when you Quote a Hadeez and that china hadeez i was sure about that becuase i read it in two books. And i dont think fabricating this will do me any good.
^ yes, we should be "very safe and sure" when quoting Qur'an and hadith... but your arguments will be seen to lack credibility if, against your own advice, you start this thread with a false story about Abu Bakr (r) and compound it with a known hadith fabrication... it's hardly a convincing advertisement for the points you are trying to make
You are seriously offending me - there are lots of translations out there and there is lots of research out there as well that explains the historical background of particular ayah - plus if an individual wants, they are free to look at tafsir to gain more knowledge etc.
But do NOT come here and tell people or tell other muslim people they should not be talking about religion when they haven't had some 9 year course in it and that the ONLY way to understand it is by reading tafsir (which is man-written explanations, and YOU KNOW THAT) when the Quran itself says that anyone can understand it because the meaning is made clear to you.
Perhaps God wants us to take 10 shades of meaning from one verse. I dont see anything wrong in that as long as you're not going against anything else the Quran says.
For example, there is a verse in the Quran about one should not enter houses thru the backdoor. I took it to mean, when I first read it, that one should be str8forward and direct in their interactions with people instead of trying to trick and manuever people. Then the translation I was reading had footnotes that said this verse might refer to superstitious practices of the time in which people would enter their houses only thru the backdoor when a full moon was out. The translator said this could mean to stay away from superstitions. Then I read another interpretation somewhere else that said something else ( I honestly don't remember right now ).
So what is the harm in having a few different meanings of the same verse? Perhaps God wants you to take a certain meaning out of it that applies to your own life - as long as it is leading you to do good things.
There is NO ROOM for a Pope in our religion - any individual of a sane mind can understand the Quran and if they wish to do further research and see what someone else said about it, they are more than welcome to.
If you don't accept this, then you, sir, are directly contradicting the Quran, because the Quran itself says that the language has been made simple so that people can understand.
And we should be very safe saying something is fabricated. How in the hell you say that i fabricated they story. Do you think i have nothing better to do. I Read this in a book by Maulana Muhammad Shafi who has a very famous book named Alaamat-e-Qayamat. And it is one of Rawayat by Hazrat Abu Bakar’s (R.A) Wife.
and you need a credible report to stop you from using a wrong hadeez. All The summary of hadeez that i quote are from the tafseer of strong source. only Sahi Bukhari Sharif has nearly 8000-10,000 hadeez and if quote some from there you will say that this is fabricated too. I am sorry my friend thats not the way you go on saying things without any kind of proof.
Well if this seems hardly convincing then i must say you should make possible to have Sahi Bukhari shareef… But even if u have that and someone will quote from abu dawood or Muslim then you will say this is fabricated too. There is no cure.
Who said that God wants us to take 10 shades of meanings. I said that there can be possible 10 meanings. And as for me i can only understand only one meaning that is the words meanings. i cant figure out contextual meaing. I cant figure out conceptual meaining and i cant figur out the figuritive meaing. You would be able to see them when you read about them and i think that i spoke too soon about 10 possible meainings. Bcuz all we see is this word means this and this word menas this and all in all this means this and then we start preaching it without knowing or consulting it to some authentic tafseer book.
Who said that you cant talk about religion. From All my arguments leads to that keep quiet about the things you dont know in Quran and hadeez and try to get it known by the tafseer already written.
Who says you need a 9 years course to read quran. All i said was they struggled 9 years for idiots like us to make the quran’s meaning more clear to us.
You yourself said that
Made clear to you by whom. The one and only Prohpet Mohammad (PBUH). Who gave the exact meaning to verses of quran to the Sahaba(R.A)..Yes most of the times meaining is clear but most the people quote out of context.
Like one hindu qouted a quran Ayat which says kill the kafir whoever finds one. He was clearly quoting out of context and when some Mulims read the ayat they said yes this is the meaning of this. But what does the context says about this. In tafseer it was clearly written that after the breach of peace treaty b/w Mulims and non-Mulims which was Sulah-e-Hadeebia . Then Allah said that whoever finds a kafir in the battle field kill him.
Well most of the times in Quran there are stories written of nations who were demolished because of their defying nature to God.
Like in Yaseen
The summary of the verses is that …(This is a summary from tafseer)
God sent two messenger to one nation but they didnt selected the right path and rejected the messengers. But Allah Gave them another chance by sending another one. The nation did the same to him and said dont preach your God’s messege or we will torture you. You are black shepp among us. Then a man who came running from outside of the city said to the nation that follow this messenger. Follow the messenger who dosent asks for reward for giving you the right path and he himself is on the right path. I will follow him no matter what. I will not follow those idols who cannot take my side when i am in front of my GOD. Then In yaseen it is written that enter the jannah , but he said can you let my nation know that My Allah has forgiven me and is counting me in respected ones.
No where it is written that how he got to jannah what happened to the messenger . But for indepth analysis when you read out tafseer you will know read it and tell me.
i have also quoted my already written “indepth analysis”
But this is only one case. But there are more cases when you cannot figure out some points which are cleared in the tafseer which came directly from Sahaba’s (R.A) rawayaat. And who do you think told sahaba(R.A). I think i made my self clear that what is the different b/w our own meanings and tafseer already written.
So then when you feel someone is quoting out of context or doesnt' have the right idea when they're using a quotation, then feel free to reply to that thread and correct them.
Asking people not to misquote, and asking people not to quote at all if they haven't had training in tafsir (which we all know is an academic training and not everyone has) are two different things.
By the way, how about you tell everyone reading this exactly what tafseer is and where it really comes from? I.E. who were the researchers/scholars who came up with the tafseer in the first place? When was it written down and recorded, and all such historical information pertaining to tafseer.