Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
Guys ab peecha choR do aik doosray ka and lets wait for investigation, this bickering is not taking you anywhere.
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
It does not matter at this time who was responsible... independent investigation should reveal this but the sad part of the whole story is a very pathetic response from the indian government which does not augur well for improving peoples perceptions especially in pakistan.
How come there was no passenger manifest? No list of passenger who boarded the train. There are over 40 dead bodies which are still not identifed and relatives of many on both sides of the border are awaiting with pain and angst any information.
The delays happening especially to the injured passengers train at atari in india is now well covered by Indian media.
All of this is adding to resentment at Pakistan side of the border and should have been avoided.
After all its in the interest of both countries and peoples to improve relations and any culprits from whatever side they belong to should be brought to justice. In the meantime - the most important thing is to ensure safe and quick return of injured passengers to their destinations and identification of dead bodies at the earliest.
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
I don’t understand why the security officials were acting like there’s never been a terror attack ever in the history of south asia for them to not check bags and do a security check of the train before passengers boarded it:mad:.
Those poor people must have suffered so much:teary1:
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
Well, whats the difference then between a Hindu Fanatic who has no quams about setting people on fire or murdering people in mass orgies of violence, and a Muslim fanatic who chooses to set up a bomb to do the same thing or blow himself up for the same purpose?
Why is the Muslim called a terrorist and the Hindu not called a terrorist?
Perhaps terrorism is defined by the method used to terrorize, or the end result of it?
Im starting to sense some bias here, perhaps you dont like the term “terrorist” being used to describe Hindus? Somehow you have no problem using it to describe Muslims.
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
Babri Mosque incident, andthe riots that followed come to mind.. Also, im sure they had some role to play in the Gujrat riots recently.
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
Yeah it was pretty horrible, I simply cant imagine what those people went through.
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
the distinction doesn’t necessarily signify some greater level of evil. that should not be the assumption. a life taken by a terrorist is not more valuable than a life taken by a standard murderer. at the same time, attacks of equal heinousness can fall into to separate categories of crime. not necessarily “worse”, but different.
the difference is relevant to this discussion simply because the act in question was an act of conventional terrorism as opposed to an act of mob violence or some other form of assault. as such, the classification of criminal style is important when evaluating probabilities of different groups being responsible.
no, i have no problem calling a spade a spade. if a hindu organization is involved in terrorism, i have no problem with them being classified as terrorists.
certain factions of the LTTE can be classified as terrorists. i find the label to be perfectly acceptable. it doesn’t offend me in the least.
and if some muslim kills his wife because she cheated on him, i would not label him a terrorist.
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
shiv sena is a very localized marathi party, not a national organization. it had virtually nothing to do with the demolition of the babri mosque.
but you’re right about the subsequent violence in bombay. shiv sena thugs were the primary perpetrators.
no, it played no role.
that was the work of some “sangh parivar” organizations and affiliates.
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
Its all really relative dude… One Mans terrorist is another mans …
I mean, the definition of Terrorist as we have come to understand it is really from the Western and particularly American notion of it.
You have a point, but I think it is relative. Take Modi for example, and certain other Shiv Sena members or groups who have advocated violence either directly or indirectly towards certain groups, and because of whom, violence has actually occured. Do you really think the vicitms of that violence see the distinction between a terrorist and murderer? Convention is lost on them, and frankly I think they are right.
Im sure there are many people in Kashmir who consider the Bharti fauj as big of a terror as the terrorists.
But whatever, we can stick to the defintion of terrorist as we have come to understand it, in accordance with the methods employed…
So, this attack on the train you will agree was a terrorist act in the conventional sense, so whoever commited it, is thus a terrorist, be they Muslim or Hindu.
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
Ok… I stand corrected.
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
It's been a good discussion between you two - Nikhil25 & Pakpatriot! Being a Pakistani I apprciate esp one from Nikhil25!
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
freedom fighter?
that’s fine, but freedom fighters can be terrorists.
the two terms are not mutually exclusive. there are, and have historically been, plenty of freedom fighters the world over that rejected terrorism. why group them with those that approve of terrorism? that is not fair. there is a huge difference between the two.
the term becomes meaningless if we start using it for all manner of criminality.
like i said, the playground bully can be considered a “terrorist” by definition.
it’s not about comparisons. a non-terrorist can potentially inflict suffering far greater than a terrorist.
for example, when the pakistani army was slaughtering bengalis by the lakh in '71, they were committing war crimes, not acts of terrorism. i don’t recall anybody labeling them “terrorists”, and i wouldn’t either. does that mean that war criminals are any better than terrorists? obviously not.
you would have a better case if you had said intelligence agencies, be they RAW, ISI, CIA, Mossad or whoever else. every one of these agencies keeps terrorism as a tool in its arsenal. i’m sure there are plenty of intelligence agents all over the world who are pure terrorists.
i’m not sure why muslims are so eager to redirect the terrorist label back onto others. why are they not satisfied with terms like “murderer”?
is the term “murderer” any more pleasant or nice than “terrorist”? i don’t think it is. they are just different terms. like i said, it is wrong to view “terrorist” as being the highest term on the evil scale. a terrorist can plant a bomb that is designed to injure one person…and i would consider him far less evil than a hindu militant that murders a dozen innocent muslims in conventional fashion.
yes.
if hindus perpetrated this act then of course they are terrorists. no question about it.
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
Given that a terrorist is :
a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities…
and terror is something RSS/VHP very much delve in, wouldnt you classify them as Hindu terrorists?
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
shows what pakistanis “NOW” think of India.
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
Janaab Pakora Saheb,
We Indian's do admit that the work of police and investigating agencies in India has rarely been impressive. Samjhuata express investigation will also takes its own sweet time to complete given the intelligent police and supporting infrastructure it has.
I don't think any of my fellow Indians who happens to be a member of this forum will tow the line of RSS/VHP/Bajrang Dal et al. It is true that many members of these associations are Anti-Muslims but these are only localised associations and neither have a pan-Indian acceptance nor will have in near future.
So don't jump to conclusions.
If a person is hell bent on playing a mischief, he will do it irrespective of what his faith is. Such people being sadists can also turn against their own community.
People like Bal Thackeray/Narendra Modi don't define what India is.
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
hummm.. I think you have a point But as these mischief makers are a minority, they must be having a political/religious motivation to do what they did so boldly. I think thats what the articles talk about.
Nevertheless I had no right to add my own two cents about the whole of “INDIA” as that comes out as “stereotyping”, which is mother of all michief.
The question I want to put across to you is that in my honest opinion people like you are also a minority in India, and as you say people like the bombers are also a minority, so what do the majority say?
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
The question I want to put across to you is that in my honest opinion people like you are also a minority in India, and as you say people like the bombers are also a minority, so what do the majority say?
*Mischief mongers are always in minority and mischiefs do happen either in connivance with petty politicians or local goons or because of dereliction of duty. I don't think there is any politician in India who can really be a role model for society. All are crooks to the core except a few highly educated ministers whose duties cannot be performed by others. Police doesn't carry a good image in India. So a small minority is capable of creating nuisance of stunning proportions. *
On the other hand there would always be a chunk of society which will do its best to make a positive difference in the lives of others but they rarely get noticed.
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
HG: thats a pretty good take on the indian society, and I do respect your thoughts But! I did not loose my brother, mother, sister in samjhoota express, If i had, I would have finely sifted everything coming out of the indian authorities and try to reach a conclusion where I understand why these attacks took place, and if God Forbid! I believe that it was religion, that motivated the attacks and the indian government is covering up the facts because India is a predominantly hindu country, I would be crossed against all indian hindus I meet, dont you think so?
Re: 62 dead in suspected blast on India-Pakistan train
*Yaar do you think Hindus living in India are satisfied with the way investigations are carried out? One must understand the profiles of these people who perpetrate such attacks, educated/sensible people will never indulge in such attacks. *
On this train passengers are allowed to board only after passport verification but on that unfortunate day 2 or 4 (nobody knows) reportedly boarded the train without a verification and got down at Panipat. So clearly a security lapse, whether a deliberate (Connivance) or dereliction of duty nobody knows.
Bombay, Aligarh used to be very volatile many years ago..but people have realised that there is no point in hunting each other and that frustrates these mischievious elements so they look for opportunities and a society chracterised by social inequality, fragmented social fabric, poverty, corruption, rich-poor divide has all the ammunition for disturbance. Caste, colour or religion then simply become excuses to perpetrate a crime. And if guilty don't get punished (either destruction of evidence or botched up investigation or because of inefficient police), they will continue to indulge in such activities, because it becomes evident that system is ineffective in dealing with them.
Media in India does play a very proactive and impartial role. It was because of NDTV that some old cases were reopened, trials conducted and culprits (who were earlier declared innocent) were sentenced and put behind bars..atleast that's hope for common people irrespective of their faith.