6 Muslims sue US Airways

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

maybe they wanted to slouch and sleep, who knows..I know when I was travelling internationally, some of us would request extenders and belt up and lie down in the empty row and sleep. empty planes rock.

it was an assumption on the part of the aircraft crew
now, so once the guys are taken off, and the feds clear them teh airline is being told these guys are not a threat.
airline could have said, okay fine, but you are not getting seatbelt extenders..

or did the airline think that its mickey mouse air hostesses are better than the feds. ooooooh blasphemy ;)

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

yup, asking for seat belt extenders by some was considered trouble making. i will keep this in my mind and just make sure I dont push the steward button if I am ever on a USAir flight.

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

Just factually, this all started because of a note from an Arabic speaking passenger to the aircrew. There just might be two sides to this story.

ABOUT THOSE IMAMS By RICHARD MINITER

December 2, 2006 – THE notorious case of U.S. Airways Flight 300 gets stranger by the minute, as more facts emerge about why six traveling Muslim clerics were asked to deplane. A passenger on that flight - I’ll call her “Pauline” - has inadvertently publicized some facts via a much-forwarded e-mail; she gave me more details in an interview this week. The airport police report confirms some of her claims and holds more revelations of its own. And U.S. Airways spokeswoman Andrea Rader also confirmed much of Pauline’s account.
One detail that’s escaped most reports is that other Muslim passengers were left undisturbed and later joined in a round of applause for the U.S. Airways crew.
“It wasn’t that they were Muslim,” says Pauline. “It was all of the suspicious things they did.” Sitting by Minneapolis-St. Paul’s Airport Gate C9, she noticed one imam immediately. “He was pacing nervously, talking in Arabic,” she said.
As the plane boarded, she said, no one refused to fly. The public prayers and an Arabic phone call triggered no alarms.
But then a note from a passenger about suspicious movements of the imams got the crew’s attention.
To Pauline, everything seemed normal. Then the captain - in classic laconic pilot-style - announced there had been a “mix-up in our paperwork” and that the flight would be delayed.
In reality, the crew was waiting for the FBI and local police to arrive.
Contrary to press accounts that a single note from a passenger triggered the imams’ removal, Captain John Howard Wood was weighing multiple factors.
** * An Arabic speaker was seated near two of the imams in the plane’s tail. That passenger pulled a flight attendant aside and, in a whisper, translated what the men were saying: invoking “bin Laden” and condemning America for “killing Saddam,” according to police reports. **

  • An imam seated in first class asked for a seat-belt extender - the extra strap that obese people use because the standard belt is too short. According to both an on-duty and a deadheading flight attendant, he looked too thin to need one.
    A seat-belt extender can easily be used as a weapon - just wrap one end around your fist, and swing the heavy metal buckle.
  • All six imams had boarded together, with the first-class passengers - even though only one of them had a first-class ticket. Three had one-way tickets. Between the six men, only one had checked a bag.
    And, Pauline said, they spread out - just like the 9/11 hijackers. Two sat in first class, two in the middle and two back in the economy section, police reports show. Some, according to Rader, took seats not assigned to them.
  • Finally, a gate attendant told the captain she was suspicious of the imams, according to police reports.
    So the captain made his decision to delay the flight based on many complaints, not one. He also consulted a federal air marshal, a U.S. Airways ground-security coordinator and the airline’s security office in Phoenix. All thought the imams were acting suspiciously, Rader told me.
    One more odd thing went unnoticed at the time: The men prayed both at the gate and on the plane. Yet observant Muslims pray only once at sundown, not twice.
    “It was almost as if they were intentionally trying to get kicked off the flight,” Pauline said.
    While the imams were soon released, Pauline is fuming: “We are the victims of these people. They need to be more sensitive to us. They were totally insensitive to us and then accused us of being insensitive to them.”
    The flight was delayed for some 31/2 hours. Bomb-sniffing dogs swept the plane, and every passenger got re-screened.
    “I think it was either a foiled attempt to take over the plane or it was a publicity stunt to accuse us of being insensitive,” Pauline told me. “It had to be to intimidate U.S. Airways to ease up on security.”
    So far, U.S. Airways refuses to be intimidated, even though the feds have launched an investigation. “We are absolutely backing this crew,” Rader said.
    Tucked away in the police report is this little gem: One imam had complained to a passenger that some nations don’t follow sharia law and had said his job in Bakersfield, Calif., was a cover for “representing Muslims here in the U.S.”
    What are the imams really up to? Something more than praying, it seems.
    Richard Miniter is a best-selling author and a fellow at the Hudson Institute.
    http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/print.php?url=http://www.nypost.com/seven/12022006/postopinion/opedcolumnists/about_those_imams_opedcolumnists_richard_miniter.htm

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

Ohioguy proposed

**
Just factually, this all started because of a note from an Arabic speaking passenger to the aircrew. There just might be two sides to this story.**

hey man every story has atleast two sides :) but lets see

*"It was all of the suspicious things they did." *

okay lets see how suspicious they were. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

*Sitting by Minneapolis-St. Paul's Airport Gate C9, she noticed one imam immediately. "He was pacing nervously, talking in Arabic," *

hmmm, pacing nervously, speaking in your mother tongue...very suspicious. I recall when I founf out that my dad had cancer and I was at an airport and was pacing nervously and since I was speaking to my mum I was speaking urdu cuz she prefers that over english..

so not a huge "suspicion' factor for me. But yeah..for Pauline Hitler, it may be a little suspicious.

** But then a note from a passenger about suspicious movements of the imams got the crew's attention. **

Okay so a passenger, whom we will refer to as James Bond 007 had enough credibility to stop the whole flight..okay.

** Captain John Howard Wood was weighing multiple factors. **

oki doki, lets see what was on cap'ns mind.

** * An Arabic speaker was seated near two of the imams in the plane's tail. That passenger pulled a flight attendant aside and, in a whisper, translated what the men were saying: invoking "bin Laden" and condemning America for "killing Saddam," according to police reports. **

hey man, many people condemned US for killing saddam, dunn make em terrorists. and what is invoking bin laden. but hey man, james bond 007 has **** loads of credibility.
**
* An imam seated in first class asked for a seat-belt extender - the extra strap that obese people use because the standard belt is too short. According to both an on-duty and a deadheading flight attendant, he looked too thin to need one. **

Hey "looked" too thin, well maybe he was maybe he was not.

** A seat-belt extender can easily be used as a weapon - just wrap one end around your fist, and swing the heavy metal buckle. **

so can regular belts...

** All six imams had boarded together, with the first-class passengers - even though only one of them had a first-class ticket. Three had one-way tickets. Between the six men, only one had checked a bag. **

okay then, first of all the airlines usually seat first class ppl and ppl who need special assistance etc. Airline could have stopped the gys and said okay dude u cant board, seen it happen all the time when some yahoo tries to break in front of me when only the elite passengers are borading..yaaay :)

of the 6 men only one had checked a bag...hmmmm, how many ppl still check in bags for a weekender type trip. all my consulting life, I never checked a bag unless I had no other choice.

** And, Pauline said, they spread out - just like the 9/11 hijackers. Two sat in first class, two in the middle and two back in the economy section, police reports show. **

so two ppl were loaded two were so so and two were poor folk. big deal.

*Some, according to Rader, took seats not assigned to them. *

yeah, so 'some' had some discipline issues, see it on many flights, ppl dont want to sit in middle seat so they go take a seat they think is unassigned, sometimes to be pimp slapped by the crew and sent back to their seat and somtimes it goes unnoticed, ..when the seat is infact unassigned.

** Finally, a gate attendant told the captain she was suspicious of the imams, according to police reports. **

on what basis? what is this agent 008 here?

** So the captain made his decision to delay the flight based on many complaints, not one. **

sure...he did what he needed to do then.

*He also consulted a federal air marshal, a U.S. Airways ground-security coordinator and the airline's security office in Phoenix. All thought the imams were acting suspiciously, Rader told me. *

sure, so they thought these gusy were suspicious based on whatever evidence was presented.

*One more odd thing went unnoticed at the time: The men prayed both at the gate and on the plane. Yet observant Muslims pray only *once at sundown, not twice. **

they could have had only enough time to do the Farz, and not the sunnah prayers.
do any of these experts know what a farz and sunnah or nafil is?

secndly, these so called experts should know that while you are travelling you can combine maghrib and Ishaa i.e. teh 4th prayer of the day and 5th prayer of the day. now depending on school of thought, some people wait just a little bit between the two prayers even when they combine them.

just coming up with this "one more odd thing that went unnoticed" shows me how knowledgeable and genuine the writer is. all its takes is a few minutes on google for anyone to figure this out, or hey call a muslim friend (if you have a moooooozlim friend) and just ask him, but hey minter is a best selling author and whatever the fark at hudson institute, he should have known better.

** "It was almost as if they were intentionally trying to get kicked off the flight," Pauline said. **

yeah, pauline. agent 009

** While the imams were soon released, Pauline is fuming: "We are the victims of these people. They need to be more sensitive to us. They were totally insensitive to us and then accused us of being insensitive to them.**

how is Pauline the victom of "these people" so whatever evidence was presented was shared with the feds and they did not see any issue.

** The flight was delayed for some 31/2 hours. Bomb-sniffing dogs swept the plane, and every passenger got re-screened. **

so thats security doing their job based on all this evidence presented to them by experts like Pauline, some arabic speaking bloke, a gate agent..etc. if it were up to 'these people' they would have flown and not taken off the plane and no need for bomb sniffing dogs and all..

** "I think it was either a foiled attempt to take over the plane or it was a publicity stunt to accuse us of being insensitive," Pauline told me. "It had to be to intimidate U.S. Airways to ease up on security." **

Pauline needs to lay off the funny brownies I think..

** So far, U.S. Airways refuses to be intimidated, even though the feds have launched an investigation. "We are absolutely backing this crew," Rader said. **

sure man, back the crew...the feds cleared the men, so unless we are saying that the feds know less than the arab amateuer translator, a gate agent, this pauline character

** Tucked away in the police report is this little gem: One imam had complained to a passenger that some nations don't follow sharia law and had said his job in Bakersfield, Calif., was a cover for "representing Muslims here in the U.S." **

how do we know this person is telling the truth...but assuming that he is..

many ppl complain that nations dont follow shariah law, dunn make teh dude a terrorist, and if this guys job as an imam is a cover for being some sort of muslim champion, that still does not make him a terrorist.

** What are the imams really up to? Something more than praying, it seems. **

so why did teh feds clear them? and when the feds cleared them the airline still not allowing them to fly is just plain simple idiotic.

what i see here is that imams who followed all the protocol, before their convention and who were cleared by security agencies again and again, but hey as long as pauline, the translator, the gate lady and the shariah dude say the guys are bad news, I guess we hafta believe them.

what is mr . minster up to, an ass clwon who cant even find out something as simple as ppl praying farz, sunnah, and nafil prayers, or combining maghrib (sundown 4th prayer) and ishaa (after sunset 5th prayer) together or with a little break.

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways


As I said, I don't know the details. I'm just throwing out an alternative (perhaps provocative) scenario and let's face it, this forum needs a little provocation. (I use the word provocation in its "stimulating" definition.)

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

I say give the imams and these 007, 008, and 009.325 etc a lie detector test to see how much truth everyone is telling to start with.

If these imams were planning to hijack the plane I would be the first in line to propose thatthey be given capital punishment.

and if it is proven that the people were lying then they need to be charged with hate crime.

and regardless, when the feds cleared the guys for flight again and again. USAir was just being a little byatch by not letting them fly.

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

really..???

hmmmm, ummm well I was hoping it would not need to come to this, but in the interest of keeping the forums going..

semi...

"how you doin..."

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

OG and his facts from the New York Post...that upstanding pillar of journalism in the US, with "whispers" and "facts" that no other journalists heard, and of course "Pauline" and her opinions...no wonder the NY POST and Miniter himself are over flowing with Pulitzers.

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

mufakkar, errr a lil birdie just told me you were invoking bin laden and were going to establish shariah by using that extra pack of salsa sauce you nicked from taco bell !!!!!!!!

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

Hey, I believe it is my God given right to make jokes about bombs in the security lines, as part of my freedom of speech. Others, with a lot of power, will detain me if I do so.

We don't know what happened. I tend to side with the flight crew, because, God forbid something does happen and they could have prevented it. They may have erred on the side of caution, but I am sort of glad they did. Call it racial profiling, prejudice, whatever you want.

Thus far, we have had zero incidents with Norwegian women, or Japanese Grandmothers.

If these Imams were playing stupid games to prove a point, I don't think the passengers were amused at being delayed 3.5 hours. If the Imams were completely and totally harmless, then accept the apology, suck it up, and move on, or better yet, blame your brothers who somehow manage to explode a suicide bomb nearly every day somewhere in the world. Incidents like this *hurt Islam. *Filing a law suit may seem cute to you guys, but looking like whiney victims is not that flattering. Some suspicion is not wholey without reason or rational thinking. Finding an effective middle ground will take some time. Whining like children of the ACLU really helps no one.

Having a trial will not be pretty, but it will take five years to get to trial.

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

Yes and as a result I was denied service at Taco Bell and they even refused to get me a Gordita from Jaliscos next door....apparently, my asking for the extra hot hot salsa raised concerns because I looked "too bland" for it. Further more, I first sat at the table by the door, then went to get napkins and then got up again to get the salsa. This was too much for the Janitor. "Its amost as if he didn't wanted his Taco" said another customer whom we shall call "Billie Jean". "Why is he saying he was harrased? WE are the ones who were harrassed he took the last packet of salsa!" Billy Jean fumed......

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

Good God OG! why do you Goras have to whine so much when you make mistakes? Take a bite of your Mayonaise sandwich and pay the people like you would any white boy had he gone through such treatment.

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

Ohioguy waxed lyrical

*Hey, I believe it is my God given right to make jokes about bombs in the security lines, as part of my freedom of speech. Others, with a lot of power, will detain me if I do so. *

Og come on, yoiu dont have to be so upset if I can destroy NYposts piece of garbage article without even trying.

*We don't know what happened. *

indeed...although the article you posted just earlier was not stating that it was really questioning the imams.

*I tend to side with the flight crew, because, God forbid something does happen and they could have prevented it. They may have erred on the side of caution, but I am sort of glad they did. *

I tend to side with the feds who cleared these guys agan and again and again. I think they may be just a wee bit more skileld and better equipped than the volunteer translator, the gate agent, 'pauline', and the shariah dude.

*Call it racial profiling, prejudice, whatever you want. *

sure...so moronic idiotic senseless prejudice.

*If these Imams were playing stupid games to prove a point, I don't think the passengers were amused at being delayed 3.5 hours. *

IF IF IF IF :) yeah... IF

*If the Imams were completely and totally harmless, then accept the apology, suck it up, and move on, *

accept the apology? where was the apology then, an apology would have been if USAir got them on the next flight to get them to their destination.

*or better yet, blame your brothers who somehow manage to explode a suicide bomb nearly every day somewhere in the world. *

*Incidents like this *hurt Islam. *Filing a law suit may seem cute to you guys, but looking like whiney victims is not that flattering. *

prove the case. if these gusy were up to no good, I would be the first one to say deport them, kick their asses, send them to gitmo. BUT.. u cant just throw ppl off a plane and then not let them fly even after the feds have cleared them again and again. what cuteness, its an issue of civil rights. fine remove suspected ppl, I dont complain that I can not do online check in...oh maybe I do, but I live wit it, driving up to the airport the night before to get my boarding pass so I dont get left behind in an oversold flight... fine...but when you kick someone off for suspicion and then the person is cleared.. treat him in a civilized professional manner. That is not too much to ask.

*Some suspicion is not wholey without reason or rational thinking. Finding an effective middle ground will take some time. Whining like children of the ACLU really helps no one. *

suspicion is fine as I said. but when suspicion is proven false by the feds then why refuse service?

Having a trial will not be pretty, but it will take five years to get to trial.

yeah it wont be pretty if we have ppl like miniter writing about it or people just telling mooozlimz to just take it.

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways


Well everyone seems to love Joey, so I doubt they'd throw you off the plane.

I am anxious now to hear the real story, if it ever comes out. Was it just a case of Arab-phobia? Will Pauline show up in court? Will she be credible? Just how fat was this imam and was it his weight that afforded him 1st class while the rest rode with the chickens? Nancy Grace is going to eat this up.

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

Don’t like the Post? Try this one on:

Tale Of Fibbing ImamsINVESTOR’S BUSINESS DAILY
Posted 12/4/2006 Islam And Politics: As we first suspected, the six imams bounced from a US Airways flight misled the public about the incident and likely staged the whole thing as a scheme to weaken security.
Their actions undermine any good will and trust Muslim leaders have built since 9/11. And they call into question what we really know about these supposedly virtuous men we invite to the White House and other halls of power in gestures of tolerance.
Are they really moderate? Do they really mean it when they renounce terrorism? Do they really have America’s best interests at heart?

The police report detailing the US Airways flap gives us serious pause. The imams acted more like provocateurs than victims. At the gate before boarding, they angrily cursed the U.S. Then they bowed to Mecca and prayed “very loud,” chanting “Allah, Allah, Allah,” according to the gate agent and another witness.

On the plane, they didn’t take their assigned seats and instead fanned out to the front, middle and rear of the plane. One even “pretended to be blind” to gain access to another passenger’s seat, according to a flight attendant.

Some ran back and forth speaking to each other in Arabic. Adding to suspicions, most of them asked for seat belt extensions even though they didn’t need them — or even use them.

Yet the ringleader, Omar Shahin, claimed before the police report was released that they “did nothing” unusual. “It’s obvious discrimination,” he insisted.

When the story first broke, the imams denied they chanted “Allah.” Yet, several witnesses in the police report say they did. The imams also claimed they were handcuffed and harassed by dogs. “Six imams. Six leaders in this country,” Shahin complained. “Six scholars in handcuffs.” But the police report puts the lie to both those claims, too.**

Shahin also claimed that a local FBI agent pleaded with US Airways to sell the Saintly Six imams another plane ticket, telling airline reps that the government had “no problem” with the men. “Never happened,” says an FBI spokesman in Minneapolis.**

Shahin and his fellow imams, who were educated in Sudan and Saudi Arabia, says he and the imams are all moderates who love the U.S. and denounce terror. He doubts Muslims were responsible for 9/11.

“We have been asked by God and by the prophet Muhammad to respect all human life,” he said. “The Quran is very clear, to save one life he saves all human life, and whoever kills one person he kills all humankind, and that is what Islam is all about.”

But Shahin engages in more dissembling. He leaves out a key part of the verse (5:32) that condones killing those who murder fellow Muslims or spread “mischief in the land.” Mischief is defined as “treason against Allah,” and the very next verse calls for guilty infidels to be beheaded.

Shahin himself has ties to terrorism. He served (unknowingly, he now says) as an agent and fundraiser for a Hamas front. He ran a mosque in Tucson, Ariz., attended by several al-Qaida operatives including the hijacker who flew the plane into the Pentagon. And he now runs an imam federation that counts an unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing among its trustees.

Shahin also teaches at an Islamic school fully accredited by an Egyptian university tied to the dangerous Muslim Brotherhood. The school’s founder preaches sharia law. One of the imams kicked off the US Airways flight, an Egyptian native, praised sharia law, according to a passenger who sat next to him.

“He expressed views I consider to be extreme fundamentalist Muslim views,” said the witness, a clergyman who has traveled to the Middle East. “He indicated that it was necessary to go to whatever measures necessary to obey all that’s set out in the Quran.”

But most disturbing, these imams aren’t the fringe. Shahin’s group, the North American Imams Federation, represents more than 150 mosque leaders across the country. It works in concert with the Council on American-Islamic Relations, which wasted no time slamming US Airways for “stereotyping” Muslims and calling on Congress to pass legislation to outlaw passenger profiling.

Both CAIR and NAIF work closely with Rep.-elect Keith Ellison, D-Minn., the first Muslim member of Congress. Conveniently enough, he immediately stepped in on their behalf to pressure US Airways and the local airport to change security policies.

If it were an orchestrated stunt to create public sympathy and force airports to look the other way when groups of Muslim men fly, it’s working. The Minneapolis airport plans to add a prayer room for Muslims, and Democrats plan to hold hearings on Muslim profiling. This could have a chilling effect on efforts to investigate terror suspects in the Muslim community.
http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=250126364574564

There is reason to doubt the Imams complete story.

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

ummm sure, as long as its not flying and is one of those low planes that I wont break my legs falling off of. one f those puddle jumpers ya know..they have like 4 steps to get in, U can throw me off of that anytime.

that is if you pass the security gate you...you..you.....moozlim

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

OG nice job googlng.
you still have not looked at my assessment of the post article and how it was lacking. is posting a new article admitting that the post article was lame?

and before I even go through this cut n paste, is it providing any new tangible evidence? is it saying that the imams were not cleared by the feds?

because unless it says they were not cleared by the feds, the rest of the jibber jabber is just noise.

the editorial goes from what the imams may have done, to what they may have said, to what their backgrounds are to what islam says to CAIR to Ellison :) ... nice.

what it fails to cover is that when they were cleared by the feds several times over, why were they not allowed to be on that or a different flight.

I dont have to trustthe imams words a 100%, and I dont, but I dont trust the rest of the assumptions a 100% either, and I still dont have an answer on why they were denied flights once the feds had cleared them yet again.

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

in the end OG...butt saaaab, mullak saaab, bhai jaaan..let it go man. the court case would drag it all out and here is my promise, if these guys truen out to be lamers, I would write an editorial to friggin check the backgrounds of imams before visas are given to them.

currently my family tally in US is

my family 3- lame imams 0, we have been successful in sending 3 ppl packing, although one is suing us, but oh well such is life.

PS: i would write an editorial regardless, they really do need to do a better job of seeing who they let in the country.

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

More of the same whining. Just replace a few names and terms and you have the perfect opinion piece criticizing evolution or Hillary Clinton!

Re: 6 Muslims sue US Airways

Um, no.

I just find it funny that none of you guys can even admit that there is a possibility that these Imams crossed a line. Find the original police reports on line and we can talk. But I find it entirely possible that this was a provacative stunt.

A couple of weeks ago I had my toothpaste confiscated. It was a 6oz container, but it only had a few squirts left. Clearly less than an Oz. left in the tube. In front of me there was some woman who was throwing out hundreds of dollars of designer make-up that was not allowed in a plane. An entire frikkin' country has had it's rights infringed upon because of the actions of a few non-Hindus.

A few what you ask? Not Eskimos. Not the Swiss.

Millions of people are inconvenienced every day and made to take off their stinky damn shoes because Richard Reid (not a Bhuddist) tried to light a bomb in his shoe. Do I give a ratsass that these Imams are inconvenienced because they were loudly praying in the airport? I have been traveling the US for the better part of 25 years, and have never seen a Muslim LOUDLY praying in the airport. When you compare the collective hassle this country endures because of certain Non-Chinese people, it pales in comparison to these Imams who plausibly could have been provoking an incident.

Yelling Fire in a crowded theatre is not freedom of speech. Intentionally behaving in ways that may be viewed as dangerous is just stupid. So, the easy way to solve that is to simply point out who the real threats are! Give us an unmistakable clue, and we have no problem with everybody else! Easy.