6 Arab states join nuclear race

[Seminole]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

@Captain1

We are talking about post-nuke-development history here. In pre-nuke-history no one would be touched if they had good weapons-equipped armies/navies/air-forces.

So if everyone has nukes there will be no more wars? Nukes are that much more powerful than religion in stopping wars? You are right, every country needs nukes to make the world safer and end all future conflicts.

[Seminole]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

@USResident

Seminole and OG, do you actually think a militia coming into power is stupid enough not weigh the option of using a nuke with measuring the consequences. Please grow up. Please go see a physician for hysteria or paranoia.

Enemies change faces everyday, nukes are not developed specific to a country but rather a to deter a threat from any enemy.

You are in la-la land if you think any and every country is equally ready/stable to have nukes. There are many, many stupid dictators/extremists/idiots who would not measure the consequences of using nukes. Or using nukes as blackmail. Or allowing/sellling them to rogue groups. If the prospect of a nuclear winter because of those possibilities doesn't scare you, you are the one who needs to grow up and see a physician for delusion.

[Seminole]

Re: Gora Hypocracy

@Pak Brave Heart

Well I am not saying every thing in moooolim countires is the whitey's fault. But I like the majority of the third world believe that the whitey has imposed these dictators on our countries. These dictators act like uncle tom and keep a lid on their people for the whitey and the whitey in return gives political support to these dictators.

Trust me I love democracy. But it is the whitey who has been supporing dictators in latin america , africa , asia and so on.

Since we are using the terms "west" and "the whitey" interchangeably, there wouldn't be any democracy if it weren't for the whitey. The whitey has been responsible for the spread of democracy from a handful to scores of countries over the past century. There has been much more support for democracies than there has been for dictators over this time.

[Captain1]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

@Seminole

So if everyone has nukes there will be no more wars?** Nukes are that much more powerful than religion in stopping wars?** You are right, every country needs nukes to make the world safer and end all future conflicts.

If you haven’t noticed, no nation currently follows religion correctly, everyone is following the ruling which suits their needs, so you can safely put religion outside of equation. How good are nukes as ‘deterrents’? Well history says they are good, but nothing can be said of future.

[Seminole]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

History also shows that powerful weapons in the wrong hands leads to catastrophic loss of life. When we are talking about something as powerful as nukes, we are talking about the ability of the planet to support life in the future. Obviously, the more nukes available, the more chances that millions if not life on earth will be destroyed. It is extremely naive to believe that if everyone has nukes there will be no more wars.

The reason I bring in religion is because some religons include wars as a necessary part of human life and even have prophets who led wars. So prohpets continue wars, but nukes will stop them? Just an indication how naive that belief is.

We need to be doing everything we can to minimize the number of nukes and those who have access to them instead of increasing.

[Ohioguy]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

@USResident

Seminole and OG, d*o you actually think a militia coming into power is stupid enough not weigh the option of using a nuke* with measuring the consequences. Please grow up. Please go see a physician for hysteria or paranoia.

Enemies change faces everyday, nukes are not developed specific to a country but rather a to deter a threat from any enemy.

Yes, they are completely unbound by any rational sense of propriety, checks and balances and oversight. Warlords, of which the cleric Moqtada fits the description, have the most horrific track record for atrocities and abuse.

The real issue here is that Muslims on Gupshup do not support the idea of non-proliferation, they do not understand the risk, and they believe that a mass proliferation of weapons will depower the US, and will prevent further US military actions. They have no idea of the multitude of horrible possible outcomes, none of which would be good for Muslims. They are in lust with the concept of easy power.

[Captain1]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

@Seminole

History also shows that powerful weapons in the wrong hands leads to catastrophic loss of life. When we are talking about something as powerful as nukes, we are talking about the ability of the planet to support life in the future. Obviously, the more nukes available, the more chances that millions if not life on earth will be destroyed. It is extremely naive to believe that if everyone has nukes there will be no more wars.

Are you talking about the same war for which some people claimed that the powerful weapon helped stop war after successful explosion? Indeed that was catastrophic loss life.

[quote]
The reason I bring in religion is because some religons include wars as a necessary part of human life and even have prophets who led wars. So prohpets continue wars, but nukes will stop them? Just an indication how naive that belief is.
[/quote]

You only want to incite flames so I'll skip that for now.

[quote]
We need to be doing everything we can to minimize the number of nukes and those who have access to them instead of increasing.
[/quote]
If we really need to do everything then all nations holding WMDs should come forward and defuse them, how about that?

[Seminole]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

@Captain1

Are you talking about the same war for which some people claimed that the powerful weapon helped stop war after successful explosion? Indeed that was catastrophic loss life.

Yes, and it probably saved millions of lives. Unfortunately a crazy mullah or OBL type would not take into consideration the future loss of millions or the future ability of the world to support life.

[quote]
You only want to incite flames so I'll skip that for now.
[/quote]
Trust me, you would know if I was trying to incite flames. I am being reasonable here. If it were possible to stop wars, wouldn't God have sent a prophet to do it instead of the nuclear bomb?

[quote]
If we really need to do everything then all nations holding WMDs should come forward and defuse them, how about that?
[/quote]
Cool, let's do it.

[vroom]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

@Ohioguy

The real issue here is that Muslims on Gupshup do not support the idea of non-proliferation, they do not understand the risk, and they believe that a mass proliferation of weapons will depower the US, and will prevent further US military actions. They have no idea of the multitude of horrible possible outcomes, none of which would be good for Muslims. They are in lust with the concept of easy power.

hold on here, nukes will bring some power and nukes will give some respect to muslim diplomats. a promotion from doormat status. give the respect today and negate the need for nukes!

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

@Ohioguy

Yes, they are completely unbound by any rational sense of propriety, checks and balances and oversight. Warlords, of which the cleric Moqtada fits the description, have the most horrific track record for atrocities and abuse.

The real issue here is that Muslims on Gupshup do not support the idea of non-proliferation, they do not understand the risk, and they believe that a mass proliferation of weapons will depower the US, and will prevent further US military actions. They have no idea of the multitude of horrible possible outcomes, none of which would be good for Muslims. They are in lust with the concept of easy power.

incorrect, I want all nuclear and conventional weapons gone and people to friggin get civilized in their internal and external political matters.

all sorts of conflicts need to stop. its 2006 for god’s sake, when will mankind learn to grow the hell up.

[Ohioguy]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

Fine, but most of the Arab countries who could possibly gain nukes are repressive dictatorships. Do you really want them to gain presitige? Egypt, do you want a more representative Governemnt there, or do you want to keep the current regime because they at least have been stable enough to keep a sound lock and key on the nukes?

I have news for you, I will not advocate change in the Muslim world if it means there is a chance of nukes running around freely. You guys can suffer under one repressive dictator after another so long as they are stable, I don't care. Your rights mean little to me compared to a triggering a mass conflagration involving an entire region of the world. Think about it. More nukes= more secure repressive regimes, if that is what you want, go for it.

What's more, we got lucky with the break up of the Former Soviet Republics. They were responsible enough to keep nukes out of the hands of extremeists. If the house of Saud falls, who will guarantee the world that radicals will not seize the weapons?

[Ohioguy]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

@Fraudz

incorrect, I want all nuclear and conventional weapons gone and people to friggin get civilized in their internal and external political matters.

all sorts of conflicts need to stop. its 2006 for god's sake, when will mankind learn to grow the hell up.

That is a lovely happy thought. Good Luck on that. Kumbaya.....

Nukes are here to stay, the only question is, is the world better off with more? The chances of complete de-nuclearization are very slim, regardless of how lovely that would be....

Read up on basic Chaos theory. The more nukes there are in the world, the more chances that a misunderstanding will cause a launch. That is the history of nuclear politics, let's not make the same mistakes again.

[Captain1]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

@Seminole

Yes, and it probably saved millions of lives. Unfortunately a crazy mullah or OBL type would not take into consideration the future loss of millions or the future ability of the world to support life.

I'm sure if a terrorist is able to get his 'dirty' job done and puts a country on its knees he will be saying the same thing "we saved millions of lives from this terrorist regime" etc.

[quote]
Trust me, you would know if I was trying to incite flames. I am being reasonable here. If it were possible to stop wars, wouldn't God have sent a prophet to do it instead of the nuclear bomb?
[/quote]
When was the last time a Prophet was part of war? some 1400-1500 years ago? How many wars were fought before and after? The only reason powerful nations don't want other nations to have a nuke is that if everyone gets'em then they won't be as 'powerful' as they are today, they'll lose their dictating-power on many issues.

[quote]
Cool, let's do it.
[/quote]
I'm all for that.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

I do not want any repressive regimes or any war mongers to have weapons, period. My post was all enveloping.

this has to stop, arms race, nuclear proliferation..open or hidden, is not in anyone's interest.

[Ohioguy]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

Everybody hold hands now and toast some marshmellows...

Kum ba yah, my Lord, Kum ba yah!Kum ba yah, my Lord, Kum ba yah!Kum ba yah, my Lord, Kum ba yah!Oh Lord! Kum ba yah! Hear me crying, Lord, Kum ba yah!Hear me crying, Lord, Kum ba yah!Hear me crying, Lord, Kum ba yah!Oh Lord! Kum ba yah! Hear me singing, Lord, Kum ba yah!Hear me singing, Lord, Kum ba yah!Hear me singing, Lord, Kum ba yah!Oh Lord! Kum ba yah! Hear me praying, Lord, Kum ba yah!Hear me praying, Lord, Kum ba yah!Hear me praying, Lord, Kum ba yah!Oh Lord! Kum ba yah! Oh I need you, Lord, Kum ba yah!Oh I need you, Lord, Kum ba yah!Oh I need you, Lord, Kum ba yah!Oh Lord! Kum ba yah!

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

@Ohioguy

That is a lovely happy thought. Good Luck on that. Kumbaya…

Nukes are here to stay, the only question is, is the world better off with more? The chances of complete de-nuclearization are very slim, regardless of how lovely that would be…

well if we are going to start discounting thoughts based on the inability of existing nuclear nations to give up their weapons then we are limiting ourselves.

the world is better off with less nukes and less war.

[Captain1]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

^OG: please go to Cafe`, you really need to.

[USResident]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

@Seminole

You are in la-la land if you think any and every country is equally ready/stable to have nukes. There are many, many stupid dictators/extremists/idiots who would not measure the consequences of using nukes. Or using nukes as blackmail. Or allowing/sellling them to rogue groups. If the prospect of a nuclear winter because of those possibilities doesn't scare you, you are the one who needs to grow up and see a physician for delusion.

If the prospect of a nuclear winter scares you so much then why not push for the current nuclear countries to disarm their nukes and nuke weapon technology.

[Ohioguy]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

From Wiki:

Reference is sometimes made to "Kumbaya" in a satirical context, to denote a blandly pious and naively optimistic view of the world and human nature, insufficiently grounded in real experience. In a satirical television spot for the 2006 Congressional elections, made by David Zucker, an actress playing Madeleine Allbright serves cookies and milk to a group of terrorists: when she notices gunmen and suicide bombers emerging from the basemement, her guests distract her and allay her suspicions by picking up a guitar and breaking into a chorus of "Kumbaya".

[USResident]

Re: 6 Arab states join nuclear race

@Ohioguy

Yes, they are completely unbound by any rational sense of propriety, checks and balances and oversight. Warlords, of which the cleric Moqtada fits the description, have the most horrific track record for atrocities and abuse.

The real issue here is that Muslims on Gupshup do not support the idea of non-proliferation, they do not understand the risk, and they believe that a mass proliferation of weapons will depower the US, and will prevent further US military actions. They have no idea of the multitude of horrible possible outcomes, none of which would be good for Muslims. They are in lust with the concept of easy power.

If US were to disarm its nukes then there would be no reason left to pursue nukes will there. We have nukes, we know they are dangerous, so get rid of the danger then. If it don't exist others will have less reason to invent and buy it as well.