Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace...
Adding to the fact that you can live anywhere and if you are interested still help. So any ideas to help?
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace…
Get your facts right you sharaabi. What you are talking about was more than five years ago (in early 2000), and at that time America was not formally an “ally” of Pakistan’s, plus Clinton objected to the military coup that brought Musharraf to power. Nowadays the American President sings the praises of Pakistan and at every turn, entertains Musharraf at Camp David and he and his officials have no compulsions at being photographed with Musharraf and his government. I am sure you will spin this fact negatively as well, because that is all you want to focus on.
Btw, Pakistan’s doom has been predicted for 58 years now by many a people, and we have always survived by the grace of the Almighty, and by and the dedication of it’s 160 million citizens. 
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace...
millions of refugees, no organised government, no money-I think Pakistan has progressed a lot in thse 58 years.
Freeze the obsession on Kashmir. That is bringing Pakistan down.
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace…
Quick, harsh punishment for corruption. People must be mad afraid of abusing authority that they are trusted with in order to make material gain.
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace...
I get where you coming from Scientist but it always puzzles me how is one person without any links or position or status to get that started? For instance if you need your birth certificate or some other document even a police report and you arent getting it without handing in bribe , what would you opt for?
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace…
There needs to be some kind of anti-corruption taskforce that the public can report any form of corruption that they encounter to. The task force would then be responsible for investigating.
So in the case you reported, the person who wouldn’t get the document would phone up the task force and report the name and location of the official who would not issue it despite being supposed to do so.
The task force would send an undercover investigator with a hidden camera to pose as a regular person trying to get the same kind of document. If it becomes clear that the official will not act without a bribe, then he would be arrested and tried.
As a harsh punishment, he should be publically flogged, with attendance by his family to witness it being mandatory. After the flogging, he should be put in stocks for an hour so as to publically humiliate him further. Follow that up with a jail sentence.
In our culture, public humiliation has an added effect not found in the west. We should leverage that in the War on Corruption.
Fighting corruption should be at all levels, not just the white-collars level of society.
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace...
Thats a good idea, think of the employment opportunities.
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace…
thats a nice idea but it will never work especially when every one from top to bottom is invloved in corruption. clerks won’t pass on your files to their heads without bribe and senior officers won’t put their signs without hefty money. these days majority of people don’t even bother to ask for bribes as they already knows how much who is asking for. its a very common practice now and is here to say. you can clean correct a few but not the whole lot.
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace...
Of course, the problem would be the danger of the anti-corruption task force being corrupt - the harshest punishment of all should be reserved for them.
In the War on Corruption.... Pakistan should learn from Georgia. Georgia recently fired every single traffic policeman in the country (about 30,000) because the government decided the traffic police was terminally corrupt and could not be fixed. They then hired new policemen to replace them and now the Traffic Police has a reputation for trustworthiness!
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace…
this truely is one of the root causes of our downfall.
and Inshallah we shall continue to do so.
My point was not that, Pakistan would cease to exist, but the fact that such predictions ARE being made. They have a reason to pass such a judgement.
We got a degree of influence in the way the world operates? oh wow, where did you read that, in the funny pages?
That beloved east pakistan was where the drive for independence of Pakistan first started. And i guess its okay now to make fun of them, since they are no longer part of us and also the fact that they hate is…poking fun of them would make us feel a bit better.
varying and shifting preferences is all one can see when he reads your post. Once beloved Talibans are now hated. We supported them when US wanted us to, we betrayed them when US wanted us to…oh well what does that make us, hmm.
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace…
People have made similar predictions about the breakup of India, the end of US economic dominance, and God knows other states as well over many a years and decades. Did they have a reason to pass such judgement? So frankly you don’t have much of a point.
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace...
These are experts on politics, they just dont start mud slinging for no reason.
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace...
In my humble opinion, greed is what has brought us all down, desire to become rich overnight so we can buy the stuff we love (for us or our beloved ones) tomorrow morning.
The most important institutions whose being fair/not-fair impacts everyone are:
- Judicial system
- Police (again, somehow tied with judicial system)
These are the very basics of a society to proper in a healthy way. Fix these two institutes and you'll have a wonderful country. You won't have to pay Rs 20 to a policeman just because he stopped you for no reason, you won't have to pay Rs 500 to get out of jail because you refused to pay Rs 20 in first place.
Anyone, anywhere asks you for a bribe, you report it to police and he will be taken care of.
Now that we have a trash judicial system, trash "police" whose job is to find people to extort money so they can pay back the Rs 100,000/- loan they secured to get this job in police.
How to eliminate this corruption? One way is to go Georgia way as pointed earlier, the other one is to be done by media... send undercover reporter to catch video clips of people asking for bribe and record the transaction on video, the same undercover "victim" then goes to police to register his complain, and proceed all the way to a "court" and record the proceedings. After "full circle" is complete, play the video on national TV and you'll have rishwat khor running to hide their faces.
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace…
As I said so-called experts in politics said/say doom and gloom things about India, America and other states, so maybe they don’t start mudslinging for no reason as well?
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace...
There are, even today, "experts" who are predicting the collapse of the USA within our lifespans - including an "expert" who predicted the collapse of the USSR 20 years before it happened.
The fact that such predictions are made do not detract from the USA's track record of success as a nation looking after its own interests.
Similarly, predictions about Pakistan are just speculation.
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace…
no. american foreign policy in the subcontinent is shaped by considerations for pakistani sentiment. likewise for other allies of Pakistan.
you didnt answer any of the points I posed to you in my reply. name a few other Muslim countries you hold as models of development. what countries in the Muslim world have a similar quality in education, engineering, military technology ? existing countries please, nations that ceased to exist arent really models of behavior
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace...
Major problem, we still have traitors to our nation who call themselves pakistanis but wish for nothing more than it to fail. These people are the ones who work from withing to destory our nation.
To bad they all haven't been killed or are now living abroad.
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace...
Sharaabi lives abroad. One down, hundreds more to go.
Re: 58 Years - of shame and disgrace…
The problem iam discussing in this thread, is not unique to Pakistan, its a widespread throughout the Islamic World. Hence i do not see any Muslim country that can be seen as an ideal society in the present Islamic World. But then again, we are not a Communist Russia who wanted to see a working example, in the present world, before they accepted anything.
btw…i see a few posts missing, wth happened.