31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

[Med911]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

with the amount of time you spent further embarrassing yourself typing this post demanding evidence of convictions from very high profile and highly publicized indian court cases, you could have just googled it yourself.

you are a remarkably unintelligent individual. you are posting something from 2004. do you think convictions that may have taken place in any of the years 2005-2011 could have ended up in that report? that may be a complex mathematical brain buster for you, but for others it's common sense.

Which of my arguments is unintelligible in you estimation? Obviously your an Indian, and you have to go to every extent to defend you nation, even if reality doesnt conform to your understanding. You have no evidence to support your nonsense, so you resort to insults. Brilliant!

Article I posted among others, shows the problem in India when investigating crimes against minorities.

Facts are stubborn things.

Its usually those who declare others as unintelligent, who are trying to hide their won insecurity... So carry on.

[Med911]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

@The_Player

Sorry to burst your bubble, but what you question really counts for zilch. The fact is that we have a functioning judicial system and these people were found guilty in a court of law.

Functional is a relative term. Read the article I posted by Human rights watch in which your own Supreme Court suggested having hearings into the Gujrat riots oved out of Gujrat because they were being hampered by judicial bias and threats to victims and witnesses.

Here are other links highlighting problems with Indias Judicial system:
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=37972
http://sabhlokcity.com/2010/01/corruption-in-the-indian-judiciary/
This article from Hindustan times tells us that Corruption in India is closely linked to a weak Judicial system.
A
Here is another article on the problem with your police in India, in an interview of Parkash Singh, former DGP Assam and UP.

Standing up for police reforms | India News - Times of India

So condiering the problem within your system, with corruption being what it is, why are you so confident that justice was served?
And again, this same justice system, and these same investigators, have faile dmiserably in the past.

[Med911]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

what part of that was nonsense? facts are facts.

The part where you claimed that HUNDRED'S of people have been prosecuted and justice has been served, when actual facts show the complete opposite. Facts are facts everywhere except among some Indians.

[Med911]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

@The_Player

Comprehension issues again, my friend ? Its the SIT which found that the NGOs and the people tutored by them lied. Pls read what I posted again -

Burning children to death ? The so-called first hand accounts have been proven to be false & tutored. So did you see them do it ?

Your in denial…
Look at these images. Those aren’t people with congenital dwarfism, those are the corpses of children, who were murdered by blood thirsty Hindu fanatics.
http://indianterrorism.bravepages.com/gujarat%20pictures%202.htm
All the survivors have brun injuries.
And here are the corpses.
http://indianterrorism.bravepages.com/gujarat%20pictures%206.htm

Now your going to tell us these pictures were all Photoshoped…

[Med911]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

All of thise isnt to say that there hasnt been any progress in India. The issue here is the slow progress, and the apparent bias.

Many people have been convicted im sure, but its always a needlessly slow process...

[nikhil25]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

@Med911

Which of my arguments is unintelligible in you estimation? Obviously your an Indian, and you have to go to every extent to defend you nation, even if reality doesnt conform to your understanding. You have no evidence to support your nonsense, so you resort to insults. Brilliant! Article I posted among others, shows the problem in India when investigating crimes against minorities.

Facts are stubborn things.

Its usually those who declare others as unintelligent, who are trying to hide their won insecurity... So carry on.

let's just stick to the facts in question. you claimed that not a single hindu was convicted for crimes committed during the gujarat riots. in fact you repeated this several times like a throughout this thread. in reality around 30 people were convicted of murder in multiple cases.

let your next reply not be vague commentary and insults, just an admission of error. thanks.

The part where you claimed that HUNDRED'S of people have been prosecuted and justice has been served, when actual facts show the complete opposite. Facts are facts everywhere except among some Indians.

you are getting desperate and it shows. i'm sure you've quietly gone and done some research, realized you were wrong and have now decided to twist the argument as a last resort. i certainly never claimed justice has been served. i said very clearly that large numbers of hindu criminals are surely roaming free. why are you manipulating my comments?

[Med911]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

@nikhil25

let's just stick to the facts in question. you claimed that not a single hindu was convicted for crimes committed during the gujarat riots. in fact you repeated this several times like a buffoon throughout this thread. in reality around 30 people were convicted of murder in multiple cases.

let your next reply not be vague commentary and insults, just an admission of error. thanks.

you are getting desperate and it shows. i'm sure you've quietly gone and done some research, realized you were wrong and have now decided to twist the argument as a last resort. i certainly never claimed justice has been served. i said very clearly that large numbers of hindu criminals are surely roaming free. why are you manipulating my comments?

Post you evidence here.

Im asking simple questions, and its up to u to provide answers. If you cant then your the bufoon.

You said " hundreds of hindus were prosecuted and dozens of them were convicted of murder in gujarat (not to mention hundreds that were shot and killed by the police)."

Where am I manipulating your comments? Where are your hundreds of prosecutions..

Now you bark endlessly as you do about supposed prosecutions, but you havn't given any evidence.

Lets see the evidence of these Hundreds of prosecutions...

Even I admitted that there have been some convictions. Ultimately however the question is and has been why is the process so slow. I offered answer to the question which you rejected.

At least one of us is doing actual research. All you seem to do is make tall claims and hurl insults. What to expect from a miserably self deluded Indian?

[Med911]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

@nikhil25

let’s just stick to the facts in question. you claimed that not a single hindu was convicted for crimes committed during the gujarat riots. in fact you repeated this several times like a buffoon throughout this thread. in reality around 30 people were convicted of murder in multiple cases.

let your next reply not be vague commentary and insults, just an admission of error. thanks.

you are getting desperate and it shows. i’m sure you’ve quietly gone and done some research, realized you were wrong and have now decided to twist the argument as a last resort. i certainly never claimed justice has been served. i said very clearly that large numbers of hindu criminals are surely roaming free. why are you manipulating my comments?

Ok genius. Because Google is to complicated for you…

This is what I am referring to in this debate: This from the UNHCR dated from last year.. 2010!

"…Also, efforts continue to lag to prosecute the perpetrators of the 2002 Hindu-Muslim riots in Gujarat, in which the official death toll was 1,272 (with some groups estimating double that number of actual fatalities), the majority of whom were Muslim.

Infrastructure for investigating and prosecuting cases of religiously-motivated violence or harassment exists in India, but the legal system’s capacity and will is severely limited and is utilized inconsistently. These deficiencies have resulted in a culture of impunity that gives members of vulnerable minority communities few assurances of their safety, particularly in areas with a history of communal violence, and little hope of perpetrator accountability. USCIRF urges the U.S. government to encourage and assist the government of India to undertake measures to make more vigorous and effective efforts to halt violent attacks against members of religious minorities, as well as women and individuals deemed to be of lower caste; conduct timely investigations and prosecutions of individuals alleged to have perpetrated violence; hold state governments and officials accountable for violence and unlawful acts in their states; and enact policies to encourage religious tolerance in accordance with India’s rich history of religious pluralism and the peaceful coexistence of different linguistic, ethnic, and religious groups."
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,USCIRF,,IND,,4be2840aa,0.html

There is an inconsistency here in investigations and prosecutions in cases involving minorities. And apparently, im not the only one making this claim. This report by the UNHCR from last year, compliments the finding of the HRW’s report way back in 2004.

Anxiously awaiting you next worthless rant.

[nikhil25]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

@Med911

Post you evidence here.

Im asking simple questions, and its up to u to provide answers. If you cant then your the bufoon.

You said " hundreds of hindus were prosecuted and dozens of them were convicted of murder in gujarat (not to mention hundreds that were shot and killed by the police)."

Where am I manipulating your comments? Where are your hundreds of prosecutions..

Now you bark endlessly as you do about supposed prosecutions, but you havn’t given any evidence.

Lets see the evidence of these Hundreds of prosecutions…

Even I admitted that there have been some convictions. Ultimately however the question is and has been why is the process so slow. I offered answer to the question which you rejected.

At least one of us is doing actual research. All you seem to do is make tall claims and hurl insults. What to expect from a delusional Indian?

Now continue barking your insults.

9 convictions, 8 acquittals
11 convictions, 29 acquittals
52 acquittals
12 convictions, 7 acquittals
108 acquittals

i’m sure you know basic arithmetic. add up those numbers.

hundreds of prosecutions? yes.
dozens of convictions? yes.

again, no need for any reply apart from an apology and an admission of error.

@Med911

Ok genius.

This is what I am referring to in this debate: This from the UNHCR dated from last year.. 2010!

"…Also, efforts continue to lag to prosecute the perpetrators of the 2002 Hindu-Muslim riots in Gujarat, in which the official death toll was 1,272 (with some groups estimating double that number of actual fatalities), the majority of whom were Muslim.

Infrastructure for investigating and prosecuting cases of religiously-motivated violence or harassment exists in India, but the legal system’s capacity and will is severely limited and is utilized inconsistently. These deficiencies have resulted in a culture of impunity that gives members of vulnerable minority communities few assurances of their safety, particularly in areas with a history of communal violence, and little hope of perpetrator accountability. USCIRF urges the U.S. government to encourage and assist the government of India to undertake measures to make more vigorous and effective efforts to halt violent attacks against members of religious minorities, as well as women and individuals deemed to be of lower caste; conduct timely investigations and prosecutions of individuals alleged to have perpetrated violence; hold state governments and officials accountable for violence and unlawful acts in their states; and enact policies to encourage religious tolerance in accordance with India’s rich history of religious pluralism and the peaceful coexistence of different linguistic, ethnic, and religious groups."

Now this is according to the UNHCR.
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,USCIRF,,IND,,4be2840aa,0.html

There is an inconsistency here in investigations and prosecutions in cases involving minorities. And apparently, im not the only one making this claim. This report by the UNHCR from last year, compliments the finding of the HRW’s report way back in 2004. Now bark some more boy…

what does this report have to do with anything i said? in fact i agree with the report.

let’s not get distracted. i specifically called you out on your shameless lies about convictions related to the gujarat riots. i made factually correct claims which you continued to deny at the cost of your own credibility. just apologize and be done with it.

[Med911]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

There were 63 who were acquited but only after spending nearly 9 years in prison! This according to Kuldip Nayar..

"A special court has now convicted 31 people and acquitted the other 63 **for the Godhra train burning incident **after keeping the innocent in imprisonment for nine years. Maulana Umarji, picked up from a relief camp for having ‘masterminded' the carnage, has also been left off for lack of evidence. Maybe, his trial as a leader was wrong from the beginning. When no proof was found of his involvement, the accusation itself seemed concocted."

Ten years in Prison, and now their acquitted? How do you justify that?

[Shamraz_Khan]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

[note] Thread cleaned up. Guys keep it civil and no personal attacks. Thanks. [/note]

[Med911]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

@nikhil25

9 convictions, 8 acquittals
11 convictions, 29 acquittals
52 acquittals
12 convictions, 7 acquittals
108 acquittals

i’m sure you know basic arithmetic. add up those numbers.

hundreds of prosecutions? yes.
dozens of convictions? yes.

again, no need for any reply apart from an apology and an admission of error.

what does this report have to do with anything i said? in fact i agree with the report.

let’s not get distracted. i specifically called you out on your shameless lies about convictions related to the gujarat riots. i made factually correct claims which you continued to deny at the cost of your own credibility. just apologize and be done with it.

Hundreds prosecuted? No

Hundreds of Hindus shot during riots? Huge exaggeration…
Simple.

Inconsistent and bias investigation.. Confirmed.

[diwana]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

@The_Player

The Supreme Court appointed Special Investigative Team did not find any evidence to initiate action against Modi.

@The_Player

Forensic evidence based on the biased Banerjee commission ? Give me a break, dude.

LOL. So whoever does not agree with your point is biased?

Simply put. Modi could have stopped the massacre of so many people and he did not for the sake of hatred and had deliberately let people die.

Whole world and the Indian Muslims know.

Who does not know? The Indian Supreme court and jokers sitting on it.

http://indianmuslims.in/narendra-modi%E2%80%99s-gujarat-is-not-developing-maulana-vastanwi/

http://indianmuslims.in/narendra-modi-travails-of-travel-abroad/

Recently (April 8, 2010), a group of German MPs justified the denial of visa to Modi. They advocated a ban on his visiting Europe. This parliamentary delegation was on a two day visit to the city of Ahmedabad to study the state of minorities in Gujarat.** It concluded that the European Union (EU) decision not to grant visa to him was justified. They went to the extent of banning his trip to Europe in near future.** They pointed out that “the Chief Minister of Gujarat has a radical tone to his politics and is described as dictatorial. He has a wrong perception of religious freedom.” This four member team has been closely following developments in the Gujarat riot cases.

One member of delegation pointed out that** he was shocked by parallels between Germany under Hitler and Gujarat under Modi. Incidentally in Gujarat school books Hitler has been glorified as a great nationalist.** Modi, in response to this has written to Prime Minister to seek apology from the German delegation for tarnishing the image of democratically elected head of state. The Congress Government endorsed Modi’s view and clarified that the EU had put a ban on Modi’s visit in the aftermath of Gujarat carnage but that has been withdrawn. Also that it was not an official delegation. Whatever that be, the opinion of the members of the delegation does reflect a deeper truth of our political phenomenon.
That apart, this is not the first time that such a thing has happened.** Modi was earlier denied visa to US. On March 18, 2005 in a severe rebuke to Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi, the United States denied him entry to America.** US Consular division had taken a strong stand against Modi, the Hindutva icon. They denied him diplomatic visa apparently holding him responsible for communal carnage of 2002. In addition, his tourist/business visa which was already granted was revoked under a section of US Immigration and Nationality Act since he was not coming for a purpose that qualifies for a diplomatic visa.

http://www.twocircles.net/2010apr27/british_indian_muslims_applaud_german_mps_condemning_modi.html

http://in.news.yahoo.com/godhra-riots--sit-report-confirms-charges-against-modi.html

Tehelka’s Ashish Khetan writes: “Far from giving Modi a clean chit, in its report dated 12 May 2010 that the Supreme Court has kept under wraps, the SIT found Modi guilty on many counts: a communal mindset, inflammatory speeches, destruction of crucial records, appointment of Sangh members as public, illegal positioning of ministers in police control rooms during the riots, and persecution of neutral officers.”
Tehelka reveals, among other things:

1. The police did not investigate the role of BJP and VHP members in the riots, the SIT has found.
2. The bodies of victims of the Godhra arson (where a mob set fire to a railway coach) were handed over to VHP members, and inflamed passions. The SIT blames a junior officer for this action.
3. The SIT says the Gujarat government requisitioned the army quickly, but does not ask why it was not deployed in time.
4. Top policeman R R Sreekumar testifies to many unconstitutional acts by Modi, but the SIT says other policemen are unwilling to corroborate what he says.
5. The SIT admits it has not examined several crucial records, and questioned several people in the know.

Need more ‘break’ ?

[yahooo]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

@The_Player

Dont know about sedition, but she might end up being charged for perjury pretty soon.

Coaching so-called witnesses to lie in court is a serious offence.

Said the guy who believes a person married to a Muslim cannot be objective. :halo:

[yahooo]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

what part of that was nonsense? facts are facts.

Your attempt to sugercoat the absence of justice for what remains a tragedy for thousands. The fact remains that in the face of the courts' dareliction of duty there seems to be a long, agonizing way to go before the the surviving victims and the relatives of those who ceased to exist in the Gujrat riots will finally find closure.

[Med911]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

Your attempt to sugercoat the absence of justice for what remains a tragedy for thousands. The fact remains that in the face of the courts' dareliction of duty there seems to be a long, agonizing way to go before the the surviving victims and the relatives of those who ceased to exist in the Gujrat riots will finally find closure.

Nikhal is to busy wallowing in self delusional Indian fantasies to respond... :)

[The_Player]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

All of thise isnt to say that there hasnt been any progress in India. The issue here is the slow progress, and the apparent bias.

Many people have been convicted im sure, but its always a needlessly slow process...

Good - this is the first unbiased post from you. Your problem is that you presume malafide intent and so are trying hard to find fault with everything. No judicial system in the world is perfect. Even US has hundreds of death row convicts who are now being found innocent based on new evidence. The one thing I am sure of though is that justice has not deliberately been twisted to victimize any particular religion/group. Knowing Indian authorities, they would bend over backwards to appease minorities. So the fact that minorities have been convicted means the case is a 150% air tight.

[The_Player]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

@yahooo

Said the guy who believes a person married to a Muslim cannot be objective. :halo:

What is it with you guys and reading comprehension ?

The fact that Teesta Setalvad has not been objective has already been established by SIT. I am just offering possible explanations for why she might be biased against the right wing pro-Hindu Narendra Modi govt

[The_Player]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

@diwana

LOL. So whoever does not agree with your point is biased?

Simply put. Modi could have stopped the massacre of so many people and he did not for the sake of hatred and had deliberately let people die.

Whole world and the Indian Muslims know.

Who does not know? The Indian Supreme court and jokers sitting on it.

http://indianmuslims.in/narendra-modi%E2%80%99s-gujarat-is-not-developing-maulana-vastanwi/

http://indianmuslims.in/narendra-modi-travails-of-travel-abroad/

Recently (April 8, 2010), a group of German MPs justified the denial of visa to Modi. They advocated a ban on his visiting Europe. This parliamentary delegation was on a two day visit to the city of Ahmedabad to study the state of minorities in Gujarat.** It concluded that the European Union (EU) decision not to grant visa to him was justified. They went to the extent of banning his trip to Europe in near future.** They pointed out that “the Chief Minister of Gujarat has a radical tone to his politics and is described as dictatorial. He has a wrong perception of religious freedom.” This four member team has been closely following developments in the Gujarat riot cases.

One member of delegation pointed out that** he was shocked by parallels between Germany under Hitler and Gujarat under Modi. Incidentally in Gujarat school books Hitler has been glorified as a great nationalist.** Modi, in response to this has written to Prime Minister to seek apology from the German delegation for tarnishing the image of democratically elected head of state. The Congress Government endorsed Modi’s view and clarified that the EU had put a ban on Modi’s visit in the aftermath of Gujarat carnage but that has been withdrawn. Also that it was not an official delegation. Whatever that be, the opinion of the members of the delegation does reflect a deeper truth of our political phenomenon.
That apart, this is not the first time that such a thing has happened.** Modi was earlier denied visa to US. On March 18, 2005 in a severe rebuke to Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi, the United States denied him entry to America.** US Consular division had taken a strong stand against Modi, the Hindutva icon. They denied him diplomatic visa apparently holding him responsible for communal carnage of 2002. In addition, his tourist/business visa which was already granted was revoked under a section of US Immigration and Nationality Act since he was not coming for a purpose that qualifies for a diplomatic visa.

http://www.twocircles.net/2010apr27/british_indian_muslims_applaud_german_mps_condemning_modi.html

http://in.news.yahoo.com/godhra-riots--sit-report-confirms-charges-against-modi.html

Tehelka’s Ashish Khetan writes: “Far from giving Modi a clean chit, in its report dated 12 May 2010 that the Supreme Court has kept under wraps, the SIT found Modi guilty on many counts: a communal mindset, inflammatory speeches, destruction of crucial records, appointment of Sangh members as public, illegal positioning of ministers in police control rooms during the riots, and persecution of neutral officers.”
Tehelka reveals, among other things:

1. The police did not investigate the role of BJP and VHP members in the riots, the SIT has found.
2. The bodies of victims of the Godhra arson (where a mob set fire to a railway coach) were handed over to VHP members, and inflamed passions. The SIT blames a junior officer for this action.
3. The SIT says the Gujarat government requisitioned the army quickly, but does not ask why it was not deployed in time.
4. Top policeman R R Sreekumar testifies to many unconstitutional acts by Modi, but the SIT says other policemen are unwilling to corroborate what he says.
5. The SIT admits it has not examined several crucial records, and questioned several people in the know.

Need more ‘break’ ?

So blame Modi for dereliction of duty all you want But there is no legal case against him. And in a democracy dereliction of duty counts for zilch if the majority wants to vote you to power.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: 31 convicted in Godhra train burning case

11 men sentenced to death for the train burning case. Somehow, I’m not surprised.

59 Hindus get murdered in India by Muslims and 11 Muslims get sentenced to death.
1000 Muslims get murdered by Hindus and not one Hindu is sentenced to death.

Once more, thank God for Jinnah.

Eleven sentenced to death for India Godhra train blaze