2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

Though better batting in 2nd inning by Pakistan but it was first inning which really costed us this match. Only Khurram played decent inning in 1st inning but in 2nd inning he didn't do much, new players need to start contributing and learning otherwise Pakistan will be in big trouble in Test matches :(

We need to discard Hafeez and bring Fawad Alam. Asad needs to be given more full series to give him confidence that his place will not be in question if he can deliver but after that series someone else needs to be brought in, may be bring Azhar back.

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

good point..why is he not playing on a regular basis..he averages freaking 55 in the first class cricket

azhar, asad, hafeez all averages in 30s or low 40s in the first class

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

^ yaari, dosti, ta'alluqaat .... probably

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

seedhi si baat hai....jin kay talluqat hote hain unko lamba run milta hai (Salman Butt, Taufeeq Umar and Hafeez khadda) chahe kitne hi technically phussadday hon. aur jo centuries kay dher laga kar aate hain, lekin koi waali waaris nahi hota unka, woh aik hi series mein stamped hokay sandooq mein band kardiye jaate hain aglay 4 saal kay liye. aksar achay batsmen apna prime domestic ki dhool chaatne mein guzaar dete hain.

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

thx...but lets think more abt it

as far as i know hafeez belongs to a no-known family from sargodha..played first match in 2003 and then almost nothing for good 7 years...so if he has that many taulaqaat and what not, why didnt he play anything for almost 7 years?

and where would he bring the parchiee from....he has no political background, none of his uncles are established politicians...no army general on his back....he does not belong to a rich family either....

so this whole notion of parchiee taluqat does not make much sense.....and believe me i dont want hafeez in the test team but at the same time i want a rational explanation not just beating about the bush

lets think more

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

some people have been whining for 60 years. Fact is fawad alam was given a chance. He couldnt play likes of shane bond and was considered a scooter meant for dead pitches. Another memory of his includes him not being able to accelerate. He also isnt an opener where we have tried likes of butt, hafeez, farhat and many others. Since asad, azhar ali etc have not worked out either maybe he gets another try. I really hope my assessment is wrong for his sake and Pakistans.

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

Fawad Alam scored a century in his debut Test for Pakistan in 2009, making 168 out of a total of 320 against Sri Lanka in Colombo after Pakistan were shot out for 90 in the first innings.
168 under pressure is not a score to belittle . After that he got chance in very next match scoring 16 and 16 and then next test after 4 months. only three tests are not justified for him while likes of hafeez , farhat and azhar getting chances again and again.

Problem is that he got too many chances in ODI which I dont feel is correct format for him. I still remember one of his painfull T20 inning, he was lookig so dumb , no doubt people will not like to see him after that even though palyers like him are very much needed in test matches.

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

Do not try to justify and talk BS when fact for not inclusion is discrimination and nepotism. Difference between your post and what I wrote is that, I am not writing from back-side, rather my posts is full of quoted figures that do not lie and is available for anyone to check.

As for your posts full of concocted lies, I do not know where your opinion is coming from. Fawad is not opener, but he is the only Pakistani batsman who made test century in his debut match outside Pakistan as opener and that also in second inning under pressure. But then, even down the order, Pakistan is full of third class players continuously playing test cricket for Pakistan with average below 35. How can you say that Fawad couldn't play against Shane bond, when he was not even given chance to play other than 3 test matches ... but then his average shows that he plays fast bowlers much better than most Pakistani batsman, as Pakistan has 10s of fast bowlers in domestic cricket as good as Shane Bond.

What can one say. It seems some people are doing as well as justifying Tasub (nepotism and bigotry) since 1947 in all fields, because they like it, as they do not want to work hard or compete on merit.

Anyhow, if other players who are playing test cricket for Pakistan are so good then why they Sht-out with low scores in test as well as first class matches? Have any answer?

As I mentioned, no present Pakistani players except Misbah and Yunus have average above 40 in test matches still they play test for Pakistan years after years, but Fawad was only given 3 matches and in those 3 matches his average is above 40, and he also has century.

But as I said, we are talking about Pakistan where hard work and merit means nothing.

Look at the story of Ramaiz Raja and Shoaib Mohammad. Both started cricket similar time and both were openers. Actually, with good world class opening batsman like Shoaib in team, there was no place for third class batsman like Ramaiz. But, Ramaiz was preferred over Shoaib most of the time (as can be seen from their test records), not on merit but because of discrimination and nepotism, else here is test record of both:

[TABLE]

Debut
Match
Inning
NO
Runs
HS
Average
100s
50s
Inns
/Century

Shoaib Mohammad
Sept 1983
45
68
7
2705
203*
44.34
7
13
9.7

Ramaiz Raja
March 1984
57
94
5
2833
122
31.83
2
22
47

Only Blind can give chance to a Batsman in test whose average is below 32 and takes 47 innings for a century … especially when another batsman is available that has average 44.34 and takes less than 10 innings for a century.

If Shoaib was not Hanif Muhammad son, he would have had even less chances than 45 matches he got. But then I have to check who was discriminating most, as the time Shoaib was playing cricket, Pakistani captain was Imran Khan most of the time, occasionally Miandad, for a while Zaheer Abbas, and few matches Wasim Akram.

If merit would have been criteria than a player with test average in mid 40 and takes less than 10 innings for century should be in team (as that is criteria of world class test batsman). No batsman whose average is below 40 can justify extended place in test cricket as batsman ... other than starters with first class average above 40 ... and played less than 10 test matches (almost all Pakistani test players have test average below 40 (except 2), still they are getting extended test chances, while better batsmen are left behind).

Fawad Alam is no exception. Many in Pakistan got discriminated due to bigotry and nepotism. For instance, Taslim Arif and Aftab Baloch.

Taslim Arif made his Pakistan debut as an opener batsman (but because he could have kept wicket, he was given extra duty to keep wicket). In debut match, he made 90 and 46 against India at Calcutta (1979-1980). In his third Test, Taslim made 210 not out against Australia, the highest score by a wicket keeper in a Test (record stayed for 20 years). Record was broken by Andy Flower who made 232 not out in 2000-01. Still, Taslim Arif was given total 6 test matches to play. Is that justice or discrimination?

[TABLE]

Tasleem Arif
Jan 1980
6
10
2
501
210*
62.62
1
2

Aftab baloch only got 2 Matches when he had second highest first class score in Pakistan, 428 runs, that was at the time 7th highest in the world (highest first class score at the time was of Hanif Mohammed 499 runs, later broken by Lara 501).

Aftab Baluch
2 test match
Nov 69
and then in
Feb 75
2
3
1
97
60*
48.50
0
1
Scored 428 in FC cricket

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

That is also not true. Fawad ODI record is also quite good. Actually only 2 players have average better than Fawad, they are Misbah and Azhar Ali. Anyhow, strike rate of Azhar Ali is pathetic. But then, Umar Amin, Khurram Manzoor, Asad Shafiq, and Azhar Ali, have SR below 70 and are still in team. Misbah Average was also lower than Fawad but got increased due to recent games.

On the other hand, rest of the players have much lower average then Fawad with similar strike rate (in 70s), except Umar Akmal whose average is slightly lower than Fawad but has good SR.

Just compare figures of Ahmed Shahzad who played 40 ODIs, Hafiz who played 141 ODIs, Umar Amin who played 14 ODIs, Asad Shafiq who played 46 ODIs, Khurram Manzoor who played 7 ODIs, and all are regular member of team, but all have lover average as well as lower strike rate than Fawad. So why is that they are playing for Pakistan and Fawad is not?

Look at figures and justify why players (most of them) whose averages are lower than Fawad should play ODI and Fawad is dropped? Kiya Pakistan kisi kee jageer ho giya hay … or all should be treated equal?

ODI figures:
[TABLE="width: 0"]

Match
Inning
NO
Runs
HS
Average
SR

Fawad Alam
27
25
9
603
64
37.68
73.8

Hafiz
141
141
9
4096
140*
31.03
72.57

Ahmed Shahzad
40
40
1
1286
124
32.97
70.23

Umar Akmal
89
78
13
2370
102*
36.46
85.15

Yunus Khan
253
243
23
7014
144
31.88
75.36

Nasir Jamshed
43
43
3
1383
112
34.57
76.53

Shoaib Malik
216
193
25
5490
143
32.67
78.28

Azhar Ali
14
14
3
452
96
41.09
64.84

Asad Shafiq
46
45
3
1096
84
26.09
69.51

Umar Amin
14
14
1
250
59
19.23
69.25

Khurram Manzoor
7
7
0
236
83
33.71
62.93

Misbah
141
128
31
4384
96*
45.19
73.92

All figures given in red (Average and SR) are lower than Fawad figure. Players name in red means, their average as well as SR in ODIs is lower than Fawad.

Plus point: Fawad is much better fielder than most Pakistani players.

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

I don't like to talk about racism personally. But racism is everywhere in Pakistan and the world.

The burger class (Ramiz and Butt are prime example) who play in expensive and famous club in Lahore are always darlings of the selectors.
Its time for all fans to realize that, yes there is a racism issue as well. How much it effects the selection is debatable but its clear in last 35 years of cricket that I have watched that there is always a bias and favoritism and it flourished during Imran Khan's era the most. I remember in Karachi during MQM's early days how people used to complain about the discrimination in cricket which was clearly evident. A lot of educated people would be emotionally moved due to Imran Khan's attitude back then.

Though I am a big supporter of Imran Khan today and know that he has learned from his mistake (Saleem don't bother to comment on this please), but back then he was symbol of racial discrimination.

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

Hafeez (and many other cricketers) made inroads because of domestic performance. Some are thrown out (for either being out of sync with team citing few "failed" innings) while some are retained for having "the sheer talent" (plus the friendship with captain/other players of the national team, or relation with selector(s) even if they fail frequently). The nepotism/favoritism alone does not usually keep a player in the team but definitely helps them in frequent "recalls".

As smooth_guy mentioned, we do have racial discrimination in the society which will creep in any institution (and cricket is one too), so there is discrimination (it can't be ignored). If Fawad Alam was not able to play "likes of Shane", Hafeez is not able to play "likes of Steyn" then why hypocrisy of keeping one out and keeping one in?

I thought it was Saleem Malik'e era which was full of discrimination, but then it could've seeped in Imran's era.

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

I do believe that Rameez Raja has been one of the most over-rated cricketers for Pakistan.

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

IK was a human and I see occasional problems between him and Javed Miandad being due to professional rivalry or jealousy.

As for Qasim Umar he was no angel himself. He violated team rules and sold his story to the British media for money and IK was therefore upset with him

There are so many other examples where IK backed Karachi players

Who backed mediocre Mansoor Akhtar? IK once even compared him to Viv and dropped Majid in Mansoor's favour!

Who picked Saleem Yousuf and Moin Khan, arguably the two best keeper-batsmen that we have had

Who backed Sami (he had pace but was often radar-less) when he was struggling for form and who did Sami turn to for help? None other than IK

Who brought Saeed Anwar into the team and gave him his full backing? IK

While there may have been some unfair selections in the past, it was not just confined to IK's era

Thankfully since I was raised in Islamabad, I am above this Lahore-Karachi nonsense, absolutely never thought in those terms while I was growing up in Pakistan. Sadly it is only since joining paklinks that I have realised that some people are so ethnically and politically biased. I would call it a zehni beemari. Such thinking is abnormal

It is abnormal to view everything through the prism of race and ethnicity. Sometimes it doesn't even feel like it is (mainly) Pakistanis who are actually discussing Pak issues on Gupshup...such ethnic hatred and bias!! one could be forgiven for thinking that it is people of different nationalities discussing Pak issues here!!! sometimes don't even feel like posting here

I am not saying all is fair in Pakistan or that there is no discrimination but people who are in majority would always be represented more in various fields in a country. That's just the way it is.

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

That is not a problem, if the "representation" is on merit :)

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

There have been many undeserving players selected from Karachi as well. In the present team, I am not convinced that Sarfraz and Khurram Manzoor are international material...period.

Also Hafeez does not belong in tests. Need to find a better test bowler than Rahat. And while Bhatti may just about pass for an ODI all-rounder, his bowling is not of test standard

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

In the end the first innings deficit was just too great

just can't afford to concede a 200 plus lead esp. with our present batting (solely relying on 2-3 players)

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

Lets keep "undeserving" and "not international material" separate :). Sarfaraz Ahmed is a good keeper, has good domestic batting records, so he "deserves" chances at international level. Adnan Akmal is also a good keeper, but domestic record is not better than Sarfaraz so they can rotate their places unless we want to go back to better batsman-than-keeper Kamran Akmal.

I believe Rahat will be out as soon as Irfan recovers, or Anwar Ali proves in nets that he is better than Rahat. I'd still persist with Bhatti, I believe he will learn, at least he is taking wickets.

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

Sarfraz internation average is 20 and is not a better keeper than Adnan akmal ........I really dont rate the guy

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

Unfortunately Adnan Akmal doesn't have much better average either, as for keeping I don't think there is much difference between Adnan or Sarfaraz.

Re: 2nd Test: Pakistan v Sri Lanka at Dubai, January 8-12, 2014

That is true. I just looked up Rashid Latif and Moin Khan on cricinfo to see if they kept players from Karachi breaking into the team. Thankfully not. I grew up admiring and cheering them without ever wondering which part of Pakistan they belonged to.

It now seems that if a player doesn't get chances at international level then; (a) he is a victim because he belongs to Karachi; else (b) he doesn't deserve it.