2nd Test - Lahore Apr 5 - 9

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*Originally posted by ChthonicPowers: *

fingers crossed cuz I haven't much faith in Umar Gul at this time
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*Originally posted by sambrialian: *

Yes. Shabbir is streets ahead of Gul as far as bowling ability is concerned. For the Pak team's sake, I hope Shabbir is fit. Gul might get a couple of wickets with his unimaginative line and length dibbly dobblers if the batsmen are in an attacking mood and make a mistake. But he will not be creating any chances with his own bowling. But then again which Pak bowler has done that consistently in this series?

Whatever the final outcome of this series, I think it has become apparent that we need to have a look at our bowling reserves. We should start evaluating guys like Abdul Rauf, Zahid Saeed, Junaid Zia (don't hammer me, he's done well lately) and others as potential Pak bowlers. If Sami and Shoaib can't produce some decent spells with regularity, they should at least know that there are some good bowlers waiting eagerly for the Pak cap.
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Samb bhai, I dont know if you haven't already but its time for me to eat my wholesome words.

:o

koi baat nai CP bro :D, happens to all of us :hehe: Like i am willing to eat my words with some mathai coating if Moin khan proves me wrong when i say he should be dropped if doesnt perform in the coming match.

Although I am elated that umar had such a good day, let’s not jump on his bandwagon just yet. Remember afridi scores a 80 on his first game and we were jumping up and down that he has “finally learned his lesson.” We all know how that turned out don’t we. fact of the matter is that I still think gul is a servicable (spelling) medium fast bowler who has to abide by a strict line and length for his success. He is anything but a match winner. Sure, once every year he will have a devastating spell but he is not someone you can rely on every game to win you one.

Well I am too damn glad he proved me wrong. :biggthumb But I hope Pak. batting proves me wrong too becuz I think they have the capacity , capability, determination and the hard luck to get out on 150 after bowling out the oppostion for 200.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Atlanta: *
He is anything but a match winner. Sure, once every year he will have a devastating spell but he is not someone you can rely on every game to win you one.
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O bhai, tell me which one of our superstar bowlers is a "match winner"? Don't tell me its Shoaib! plz. So far even the most touted "match winner" bowler couldn't do ANY damage, and you are de-valuing such a great contribution from this lad. You can't rely on Shoaib to win a match, so whats wrong in not relying on Gul, Shabbir, Razzaq or any other bowler? We should stop talking about "match winner bowler/batsman". Cricket is a "team" sport, its responsibility of ALL members of the team to win a game, not just a batsman or bowler.

amazing performance by Gul :jhanda: hope he continues like this :k:

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Captain1: *

O bhai, tell me which one of our superstar bowlers is a "match winner"? Don't tell me its Shoaib! plz. So far even the most touted "match winner" bowler couldn't do ANY damage, and you are de-valuing such a great contribution from this lad. You can't rely on Shoaib to win a match, so whats wrong in not relying on Gul, Shabbir, Razzaq or any other bowler? We should stop talking about "match winner bowler/batsman". Cricket is a "team" sport, its responsibility of ALL members of the team to win a game, not just a batsman or bowler.
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Well said Captain Saab, its just like when People were running Pathan down.

1st para

I wish you were wrong but alas.

2nd para

Gotta agree give credit when it is due

3rd para

Dont be so hard on the S’s

:smiley: :smiley:

O chuk day phattay ( :) @ my punjabi )

Cha gaya Gul baba Cha gaya.

I guess Shoaib need some "rest". He should be kicked out for some time and should do work on his line and length even if he has to give up some of his speed. This is the lesson that we get form Irfan Pathan and Umer Gul's bowling.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Captain1: *

O bhai, tell me which one of our superstar bowlers is a "match winner"? Don't tell me its Shoaib! plz. So far even the most touted "match winner" bowler couldn't do ANY damage, and you are de-valuing such a great contribution from this lad. You can't rely on Shoaib to win a match, so whats wrong in not relying on Gul, Shabbir, Razzaq or any other bowler? We should stop talking about "match winner bowler/batsman". Cricket is a "team" sport, its responsibility of ALL members of the team to win a game, not just a batsman or bowler.
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no one here is knocking down umar. as a pak cricket fan, i couldn't give a damn who it is that is helping us win. all I am saying is that umar till this day hasn't been a match winner. shoaib on the other hand has won us the new zealand test series recently and what about that ODI tournament in australia where he single handedly brought us victory. history shows that bowlers of umar gul's caliber has not been a consistent match winner. devastatingly fast bowlers like shoaib and the tantalizing spin bowling of murali and warne are the one that more often than not comes through for their team. Not some 75+ MPH bowler like umar gul.

Blasting out players with speed isn't the only way to get wickets otherwise Glen McGrath would be a failure. Gul has got a pretty good test record so far. It's time people stopped knocking his efforts and give the guy a chance. He makes excellent use of the new ball whenever I see him.

well I was proved right - india should have bowled first. of course the way Umar gul bowled the collapse could have happened tomorrow too.

Ab hamari izzat Pathan aur Kumble ke haathon mein hain. Can they repeat the bowling performance of first test day 4? Today our bowlers and fielders looked so off color, yech.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Atlanta: *

no one here is knocking down umar. as a pak cricket fan, i couldn't give a damn who it is that is helping us win. all I am saying is that umar till this day hasn't been a match winner. shoaib on the other hand has won us the new zealand test series recently and what about that ODI tournament in australia where he single handedly brought us victory. history shows that bowlers of umar gul's caliber has not been a consistent match winner. devastatingly fast bowlers like shoaib and the tantalizing spin bowling of murali and warne are the one that more often than not comes through for their team. Not some 75+ MPH bowler like umar gul.
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Atlanta bhai,

Speed if not directed to the proper line and length, will more times then not go, in favour of a Batsman with talent for flicking.

Examples
Miandad
Zaheer Abbas
Gavaskar
Azharuddin
Tendulkar
Sehwag
Inzy
Pointing
Gilchrist
All Sri Lankan Batsman
etc, etc, etc

Pace need not be everything

At seven down, with less than 150 on the board, a Pakistan attack of older vintage might have expected, reasonably, to scuttle a previous Indian batting line-up for under 200. Times, however, have changed. Such is India’s batting strength that bowling them out for less than 300 still constitutes a victory of sorts, and for that Pakistan should be justifiably proud. But, just as India’s batting has undergone such a publicly admired evolution, Pakistan’s pace attack may now be in the midst of a more subtle, yet equally crucial development.

Pakistan’s success on the first day at Lahore was down to the type of bowling performance that has been as rare as a spectator in the stands. While Mohammad Sami and Shoaib Akhtar huffed and puffed - extracting pace and bounce but little reward - Umar Gul stuck to the staid virtues of line and length and reaped rich reward. In a team obsessed with pace, Gul bowled a good length and hit the seam, and extracted five wickets in a 12-over spell. And he didn’t even bowl that quick.

But his excellent work was partially undone by thoughtless performances from the two bowlers who, prior to the series, had been widely expected to make the difference between the sides. The runs Gul saved – and the advantage he weaved – vanished as Shoaib and Sami sprayed the ball all over the place at express pace. The results were predictably disappointing: 39 overs between the two of them, 186 runs, two maidens, three wickets.

Inzamam-ul-Haq recently wrote in his newspaper column that the hype bubble in which both Sami and Shoaib were floating had finally burst, and he wasn’t just lashing out. He was merely stating a simple truth – that the two S’s aren’t as effective as the two W’s of old. What Inzamam also hinted was that pace – contrary to prevalent opinion in Pakistani cricketing circles – need not be everything.

It is unfortunate that Sami’s burgeoning inconsistency and ineffectiveness of late has coincided with the increasing excitement revolving around him – and specifically his pace. He may have picked up two wickets but his predilection for the short-pitched ball, particularly against Yuvraj and the tail, betrayed an unthinking approach and a hankering to bowl as fast as possible.

As for Shoaib, after an impressive opening couple of overs, he eventually resorted to mimicking the lifeless Multan pitch. Shortening his run-up in subsequent spells and looking as exhausted as he was ineffective, he kept up the pace both of his bowling and the runs that flowed off it. The lessons of Irfan Pathan at Multan, and Gul here, had clearly been wasted.

Over the last six months, the emergence of Gul and, until doubts crept in over his action, Shabbir Ahmed, have bucked the recent trend of Pakistani fast bowling. This new breed relies less on explosion and more on containment. Sami and Shoaib are still very capable of precipitating the sensational collapse, but maybe we shouldn’t expect it to happen as often as it used to.

Gul and Shabbir may not be as exciting or breathtaking to watch as Imran Khan, Wasim Akram or Waqar Younis in their heyday. But they might, with their own brand of line, length and seam movement, become just as effective.

http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2004/APR/117291_PAKIND2003-04_05APR2004.html

Very rightly said.

yeah, and Shoaib has won us games “consistently”? :rolleyes:
give the guy a chance, you don’t need rockets and missiles to get a wicket. you need brain.

CP, saby yaara, I ate my words as soon as I got up and checked the scorecard. :smiley:

hey, if proving me wrong means that these guys do well, I’m more than happy to be wrong permanently.

----x----

:konfused: exactley this is waht I was doing when India decided to
bat 1st. Not that I was complaining or anything, :hehe:
It was very entertaining to see Pathan bat like that. ( Because we expect this form from the batters)
Umar gul indeed has the potential to be like wasim akram as the time nourishes him more. I still believe Abdul Qadir’s son should be give the test cap although Danish has the right spirit in him.
Good 1st day cricket.. :jhanda:

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*Originally posted by Raindance: *
I still believe Abdul Qadir's son should be give the test cap although
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err which one? and why?

Abdul Qadir's son Salman Qadir (the VC of the U19 team, if that's the one you're talking about) seemed like a good talent. But if you're picking him as a spinner than Tariq Mehmood and the 16 yr old leggie (I forget his name) are way better than him. If you're thinking batsman, then the guy who captained the side was the only batsman who performed consistently. And if you're thinking allrounder, I don't think he's good enought to even break into the ODI team much less the test team.

God Forbid :nono: shubh shubh bolo karina bibi!!

First, yes we shouldnt jump on bandwagon yet and we hope that he plays more matches like this to prove his crednetials even more. But its wrong to say that you cannot rely on him every game. Why not? If he performs consistently in Glenn Mcgrath mould, we can rest assured to have a reliable medium pacer. everyone has good days and bad days.

Re Afridi, Everyone has his own opinion, i saw his 80 ball by ball and to me there were signs of improvements. He deserved more chances. Anyways lets not start Afridi bashing here.

:hehe: that cracked me up!! I hope Asim’s inclusion brings some solidity in the middle order though Razzaq was not a bad option either but lets see. Youhana’s hundred was the only limelight from the last match and he should be feeling confident of scoring another one but oh well .. ‘consistency’ has never been his middle name :frowning:

wohi tu sambs.. i hope our players keep performing above our expectations on consistent basis :jhanda: