25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

not really, not at least on my part. you can find my similar posts in drone attack and/or karachi killings threads.

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

I dont think that he was talking about you (it would be the army/govt).

The army and government are talking about sovereignty since yesterday. Where was our sovereignty during the past 7 years when around 280 drone strikes were carried out in FATA? Where was our sovereignty when bases were handed over to Americans and then we couldn't have them vacated? Where was our sovereignty when OBL operation was carried out in Pakistan without our army's knowledge? Where was our sovereignty when Americans were allowed to set-up safe houses within the country for setting up their spy network?

Why suddenly the government and Army feel that their sovereignty has been violated???

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

he may not be talking about me, but i will say that about so many people even in this forum... who support drone strikes and killing of civilians, women and children, but feel like all patriot and betrayed when army didn't protect their own men. I'm with him or anyone, who says there should be no difference in killing in unarmed civilians and army men as far as sovereignty is concerned...

it was our very own intelligence agencies who issued a report 2 days ago claiming that more than 80% of deaths through drones were not terrorists, why no sovereignty issue there? this kiyani (or rather should be called kuch kiya-nahi) and his good for nothing corps commanders are a bunch of eunuchs

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

may be a bag full of dollars is a little late this month

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

There is another Urdu site giving some story. I have seen this site first time so I can not comment on it , Read and think .
بمباری سےقبل پاک امریکہ فوج میں کئی گھنٹے شدید جنگ ہوئی](http://www.ahwaal.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1708%3A2011-11-27-01-12-33&catid=31%3A2011-08-25-09-52-49&Itemid=35&lang=ur)

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

i am talking about army/govt but more importantly our media, politicians and 'civil society' getting all worked up over it....... the hype created over these military deaths is hundred times more than that when civilians die...........

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

I am not a big fan of this guy but I wish we had actually listened to him a little more… he was right you know.

You can just hear him saying “Told you so”

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

This is excellent point.

the sovereignty of pakistan has been violated thousand times before

and civilians killed thousands of times before by NATO America

where was the noise before???

It is another big slap on face of pakistan again lets see what government will do this time!

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

Inna Lillahi wa inna ilayhi raajiuon..

These are the moments which make us shameful of being a na murd in front of Nato, US and allied forces.

But lets think logically too. Why would NATO attack our bases? Just for fun? Mistake? or maybe it was a result of some unreported alteraction between Pak forces and American / Nato forces?

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

^i think (personal opinion)......they wanted pakistan realise its 'auqaat'.........

Like..'hey...don't think too much of yourselves...playing role in afghanistan and whatnot.........we can kick your asss anytime.......and you can't really do anything about it also......araam se baitho shabaash'''

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

for the bold part as mentioned earlier, two possibilities

1) Air support after getting under fire/ retaliation from Pak Army, who had no anti aircraft guns and/or MANPADS

2) Air cover for the TTP terrorists, providing a good chance to enter the area again after being pushed out into afghanistan.

more and more reports are slowly coming in regarding both

third possibility is kiyani+zardi going hand in hand supporting this incident behind the scene to shift focus from memo scandal after coming to a mum-muka

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

by the same token, why dont people get all worked up when Taliban kill our soldiers or civilians?

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

You have have to think about it, COAS MUST issue statements of "sovereignty" when militarymen are killed to raise the morale of other armymen, to tell them (however a big lie that is) that army leadership is 'upset' at death of their 'workers'.


We turned into 'na murd' with first strike of drone and failure to stop terrorist attacks within Pakistan, these are not just 'carry overs'.

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

I dont think third possibility is true. Kayani would be more pissed at the whole saga and would not let it slide like this. I am inclined to think its the first one.

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

I would also like to believe the third one is not even a remote possibility, but when i think about it, what exactly is different in allowing to kill innocent people via drones, and allowing to kill army men? the only difference is those innocent (more than 80%) killed cannot directly question you, and if they do turn their guns towards you, you have army handy to kill them as well. while in this case he only needs to show a little more "disgust" and "unrest" the "condemnation" will need to be put forward in somewhat stronger words, and thats all... then back to normal business, *counting-dollar *sutta *counting-dollar *sutta *condemnation *sutta and he lived happily every after...

but i hope its the first point mentioned there, and it was a retaliation when NATO's ground forces tried to conduct some operation (almost 2.5 KM inside the pakistani side of the border) and Pak Army retaliated. I wish they had some means to bring the choppers down right there and then.

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

What suckers! If there was firing from Pakistan that would’ve been first news and then followed by ‘retaliation’.

Afghan officials claim NATO attack was in response to firing from Pakistan side: http://news.yahoo.com/afghan-officials-fire-pakistan-led-attack-175247287.html

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

yes they do claim that, and by claiming this they confirm that there was some operation going on, inside pakistan where their ground forces were involved. otherwise are they claiming Pakistani army fired at them from more than 2.5 km away and actually caused some reasonable disruption in their operation that they had to call for air strike??? this is nonsense.

they had to call the air strike when they faced strong resistance and some of their men may be down getting their bodies in media could have caused a HUGE issue, even bigger than this…

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

I have already posted an Urdu link saying some story .

**بمباری سےقبل پاک امریکہ فوج میں کئی گھنٹے شدید جنگ ہوئی](http://www.ahwaal.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1708%3A2011-11-27-01-12-33&catid=31%3A2011-08-25-09-52-49&Itemid=35&lang=ur)
This is our media which never speak truth .
**

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling

Really sad incidence ...no words to express my feelings

My humble prediction..despite a toothless civilian government and army leadership, I have a feeling that this incidence would unleash certain consequential geo-strategic and local political waves that would be beyond the control of all stakeholders (America, Pakistan army, Afghan govt ec) and in many ways will go a long way in reshaping this whole region...

Obviously nothing will happen overnight but if we try mapping future terrain, it is obvious that pak army will have no choice but to block NATO supplies for weeks (if not for a whole month) thus alienating Americans to its limits with a high probability that USA may take some other harsh military and financial steps...

Even if US and Pak somehow cover up the mess in next few weeks and try to act buddy buddy, deep scars of this incidence will remain alive within the psyche of pak army (especially among jawans) and ISI....it is already a broken relationship following OBL incidence but at least it was semi-functional operationally but from hereon army leaderships from both sides will "act politically" with absolutely mistrust & disgust towards each other.

PTI and Imran khan will gain immense benefit from this incidence as the single biggest worrying factor for a common Pakistani is not roti, bajli aur pani but how to restore pak's ego, waqar, identity and independence...you may think that this is just another incidence but it will have a deep scar on pakistanis' already battered psyche ...the feelings that "we are sitting naked infront rest of the world to get raped"' and that "our whole country has literally become an international gutter where anyone can come and puke" have become extremely strong ....

And both zardari and nawaz sharif are viewed as "na-mard", toothless and US chmachays by majority of Pakistanis...only Imran has left with any credibility and thus he will cash on it big time... and nothing wrong with it as long as he is not trying to emotionalize Pakistanis on this sensitive issue and legitimately believes in what he says ...remember this cycle started with raymond davis episode, matured with OBL incidence and now peaked yesterday and Imran's popularity has also increased exponentially in last 12 months ....so there is a strong correlation......and if PTI wins next elections and deliver, then this incidence will act as a main catalyst.

Geo-politically, hatred against America all the way from Turkey to Iraq to Iran to Afghanistan to Pakistan would become so deep and strong that it may become a NO-GO zone for Americans...there is a reason why Turkish foreign-minister was the first one to call Pakistanis yesterday and express his deep condolence. And lets make one thing clear. USA has lost Pakistan forever. Nothing and I mean nothing will change this dynamics in favor of USA in foreseeable future. From hereon all USA should seriously worry about is how to limit the damage/hatred so that Pakistan does not become another Iran for it.

Lets hope that Pakistan govt/army show some courage and stand up for few weeks....

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Re: 25 Pak Soldiers killed by NATO shelling


I disagree, in early days, there was much hype over drone attacks as well, now because drone have became a daily routine that is why it is not much discussed, even IK have forgotten about the issue where i remember he said if drones are not stopped within a months time then he will call biggest dharna on it until the drones are stopped permanently well that never happened...after so many months that month is still not over

These attacks on military installations or post is relatively new thing, that is why it is something with the media and other politicians are giving much of the statements i.e. hype, wait till it becomes norm, then no one will be bothered about it as well

and with Kiyani as COA, i think ( and i hope i am wrong) these attacks will become norm sooner..