2012.....the year.....

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Its almost the end of 2012 and it has not happened. What I was talking about was the conspiracy theories that in 2012 Pakistan would collapse and be divided into different countries. In 2007 I was in doubt the country could survive another 5 years. I am glad my doubt was proven wrong. There is still another month to go but the only severe crack appears to be Balochistan.

Where do these Pakistan will fall apart cinspiracy theories come from? Is it really a Western agenda or do intelligence agencies within Pakistan use this to ensure they have power?

There is much to hate about the current government but like it or not they have united the country since 2007. Some conspiracy theorists argued that the PPP would divide the country further yet I feel they have done the opposite.

Are some Pakistanis wrong to think that the world is out to get them and break them up into smaller units? Should they trust those states who we viewed with suspicion before ie the USA, India, Israel?

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Re: 2012.....the year.....

I don't know how israel factors into it, but india did break us in half when given the chance and a whole lot hasn't changed in their security establishment. China trades with india as well, but it doesn't mean that they aren't mutually suspicious of each other even though their baggage is much much less compared to what has happened between india and pakistan!

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Re: 2012.....the year.....

I personally think that if all the people in the country are given confidence that they are equal stake holders in the decision making process and the owners of their resources, no one can divide us. The government needs to find out some workable solution of balochistan, firm out their policy on WOT and end the power crisis.

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Re: 2012.....the year.....

Balochistan needs to be broken up like it was around partition. Some areas get destabilized and the whole province is pegged as bad. I think that this would also take away the propaganda value of destabilizing the biggest province of pakistan into a smaller manageable problem. Northern Baluchistan is majority Pashtun and gawadar can be in a separate province as well since it was the Pakistani govt that bought it from Oman.

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Re: 2012.....the year.....

Credit goes to the resilience of our nation and not the government. We are the survivors! dheet qaum :) mashaAllah.

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Re: 2012.....the year.....

There are no two opinions about putting our house in order. But it does not mean that that country can disintegrate because of floods, ban on pillion riding or unavailability of CNG, as often predicted by Westerners.

Balochistan is a serious problem and so is Karachi. But those who consider themselves sole custodians of the country, are not willing to give politicians a free hand in the restive province of Balochistan to sort things out. This kind of mentality if detrimental to the national cause. And the sooner we understand it the better.

Karachi needs a solution through its police because that's the only way for a durable solution.

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Re: 2012.....the year.....

Well said! The sooner the internal security is taken back from the sole "patriots" the better. Political issues should be dealt with politically and not through "boots".

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Re: 2012.....the year.....

The politicians have a free hand in Karachi. What have they accomplished over there? From what I can see, they have a free hand in the rest of the country as well, yet I dont see any progress on the security front.

I agree that military should stay out of politics, and on the same token, politicians should stop using the military. Country can be safe and progress only when all institutions are independent, and operate fairly. Easy to bash the 'boots', as they are a convenient scapegoat for every evil. But dont forget, they are put into these situations by politicians themselves.

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Re: 2012…the year…

By any chance do you believe that Karachi has never been a playing field for the men in uniform? Do we need to discuss afresh who created MQM to counter whom? Does not the SC ruling in Asghar Khan case tell us who is the real manipulator? Do we still need to know who runs the foreign policy of the country? Were Taliban created by politicians? Who had decided to spearhead the so-called Afghan jihad? Where the philosophy of “strategic depth” originated from?

It is actually easy to bash politicians because they are no holy cows. That’s fine if they are not performing. But I understand that we really need to think honestly if the politicians really got a free hand ever?

And they are so naive that they get used by politicians every time? :bummer:

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Re: 2012.....the year.....

The government was elected by the people. The thing about this governmkent, for all its flaws, it is the only national political party. By the way the government is reflected by the people. The people are not angels in Pakistan.

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Re: 2012.....the year.....

Perhaps in the cities, but in the villages the vote is coerced. It can be either through favors, projects or money or food which happens in cities, or by direct intimidation like in interior sindh where the people "vote" as their jagirdar tells them whom to vote for: this is allowing for the fact that votes aren't already being stuffed in ballot boxes by the administration.

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Re: 2012.....the year.....

[quote]
By any chance do you believe that Karachi has never been a playing field for the men in uniform? Do we need to discuss afresh who created MQM to counter whom?
[/quote]

Karachi operation against MQM was started on the orders of Nawaz Sharif. Naseerullah Babar of PPP continued on with this operation during Benazir's tenure afterwards. There was no military rule at this time. In the MQM operation, army was merely the messenger, delivering on the orders of the ruling govts.

[quote]
Does not the SC ruling in Asghar Khan case tell us who is the real manipulator?
[/quote]

Asghar Khan case has only shown a campaign financing network. Money came from civilians, and went to civilians. ISI was wrong to have been the middleman, but the nature of the disbursement of cash shows that all and sundry politicians benefited from the practice.

[quote]
Were Taliban created by politicians? Who had decided to spearhead the so-called Afghan jihad?
[/quote]

You need a lesson in history. Training of afghan terrorists was started at the behest of Zulfikar Bhutto, and was done by Naseerullah Babar, the PPP stalwart. When Zia took over, this was not exactly reversible, as the terrorists had made long term training and refugee camps within Pakistan. However, continuing it was a mistake, not that Pakistan had any choice. Zia worked under the same US pressure/money that ZAB did.

[quote]
It is actually easy to bash politicians because they are no holy cows. That's fine if they are not performing. But I understand that we really need to think honestly if the politicians really got a free hand ever?
[/quote]

Noone is a holy cow. Why is it fine if politicians are not performing? Before getting elected, they all claim to bring the sun, moon and the starts for the people of Pakistan. They claim to solve the electricity crisis in 6 months, corruption in 3 months, joblessness in 1 year. But when they are given the reins of the country, they have ready made excuses of 'establishment interference'.

And besides, was this thread about history, or about the past 5 years? I dont see any military involvement in Baluchistan or Karachi in the past 5 years. So wheres the civilian government?

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Re: 2012.....the year.....

Some Paki journalistic figure (cant remember the name), said once: "Pakistan is surviving because of three A's, Allah, America and Army"