Re: 1971 War
self contradictory statements. Make your mind before generalizing an ethnicity and making tall statements like 'who belongs to whom'. It will definitely help you all across.
i dont care what you believe. for your not fragile pakistan its not ordinary thing if my enemy is your hero or your enemy is my hero. again just talking what people believe from different ethnicities.
Re: 1971 War
1971 war…title of the thread
Re: 1971 War
Please ask OP what was her intention to bring Sindhis and their intellectuals in this thread. To settle previous scores? or to show her frustration against Sindhis for not supporting PTI? or there is a common link between Bengalis and Sindhis for promotion of their language (not at the risk of other languages as she thinks)? or its just she knows my identity as being Sindhi and just because I referred to language movement of East Pakistan, it was necessary to drag Sindhis in this thread?
Also ask from the posters, who are making tall statements like ‘Sindh belongs to India culturally or for what so ever reasons’.
Re: 1971 War
I made the thread on 1971, but I really don't mind discussion flowing into different directions. So yeah, I'm not gonna sit here and cry a river because the focus is now 'Sindhis', as if they are unmentionable people or something.
I don't give a rat's ass about PTI getting any support from Sindhis. I think I know enough about the social, political and ethnic dynamics of that part of Pakistan to neither entertain nor frustrate myself with such ideas. Thankfully this is confirmed and re-confirmed by the PTI supporting Sindhis that I happen to know. So get over this self important illusion.
But speaking of common link, then yes there is a common link between people who wear the 'respect for languages' on their sleeves to manipulate history for their own agenda of 'promoting' language (yes by making it carry the nasty baggage of past).
I don't care which brand of intellectuals get the offence, yes but blaming language issue (or even Bengali nationalism) for the separation of Pakistan is a classic case of simplification of history, because it is just too inconvenient to talk about real issue of economic and political inequalities, and the electoral injustice Mujib was subjected to.
The whole thing was just to show mirror to those who whine the loudest about 'learning from the past'.
Re: 1971 War
Sindhis are not unmentionable people, but there should be a tangent to any discussion. Just because a Sindhi poster posts something does not mean that there comes stupid generalised statements from other biased and hateful posters against the whole Sindhi community.
People really try to find opportunities to badmouth other ethnicities. Example: mention of Raja Dahir in a thread regarding 1971 war. sawal gandum jawab channa.
Sindhis are not linked to their language, because bengalis did so. There is a strong affiliation Sindhis got with their language over different eras of history. There were movements against Arghoon, Tarkhan and Mughal rulers for imposing Persian in place of Sindhi.
Having said that Sindhis never claimed that fall of Dhaka was only due to language issue just because they want to cash that against Urdu. Sindhis never shown hatred against Urdu or any language. They just want their language get due place. There were people in Sindh, who were linked with Awami league and Mujib getting opportunity to address a crowd in places like Nawabshah says that there was a following of non-Sindhi leaders in Sindh. The whole One-Unit movement was agitated by Sindh alongwith small provinces and that did not relate to language issue to the extent of Bengali, but yes a part of movement was to get voters lists in Sindhi for people of Sindh. This all proves that Sindhi masses provided support for Bengalis and today no Sindhi historian deny atrocities and economic suppression of people of East Pakistan.
But people always tend to twist words and facts according to their preconceived biased ideas. selected myopic mindset.
Re: 1971 War
You are challenging the founder of Pakistan and later fraud marka do quomi nazria.
I have made my points, nothing to add from me on this thread. Bangladeshis are now a free nation, all power to them.
Re: 1971 War
^Two nation theory is true. in some parts of Pakistan it is on religious grounds and in other parts of subcontinent on cultural grounds, right? having said that Sindh culturally belongs to India as Raja Dahir is glorified by your leaders.
No it was not true and it was totally fraud and lie. Had this nazria true, East Pakistan would have never separated. Whole Pakistan once belonged to India I don't know what the hell are you talking about?
Re: 1971 War
^ Yes, you are living example that two nation theory is weak enough to hold pakistan togather. But if you dont believe in the theory that doesn't mean others believe same. Lets say sindh should belong to india and was forced to join pakistan? Apni bat kro idhar odhar ki na chorro.
Re: 1971 War
You know what! You are full of hatred which is apparent from your pathetic posts. Not worthy to waste time in arguing with a poster like you, who believe in stories of tandoor wala quoted by some tom, dick and harry and delivering sermons to others for 'Apni bat kro idhar odhar ki na chorro'.
I have made my points very clear and not in a mood to take this rubbish blame game any more.
Re: 1971 War
To what extent the orthodox narrative history of East Pakistan would have been very different had Zia not hanged Bhutto (not necessarily removed)? Do you think we would have seen such crass, opportunistic backlash against 'Punjabi Army' and mocking of 1971 surrender, if it wasn't for extreme reaction against Zia's dictatorship? Neither Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan or even Gen Niazi were ethnically Punjabi, but Zia was (though technically a Muhajir).
If generation after generation can cast sympathy votes to Bhutto over what happened to him and forget about all his blunders and flaws, what makes people think that so called historians have not manipulated history to water down his pivotal role behind the fall of Dakha? The death of Bhutto was followed by extreme polarisation in the Pakistan society, and it is no secret that civil society had traditionally been a very pro PPP lobby.
When you hear about the orthodox views where the whole episode of fall of Dhaka is summed up between two lines; either it is Bengalis' reaction to Urdu language, or surrender of Pakistan's Army. It's like nothing so important and ground breaking really happens between these two popular flashpoints, and then it makes you wonder who exactly benefits from this extremely simplified, dumbed down history? Who exactly do they try to bail out when they either blame Urdu language or the Punjabi Army for the fall of Dhaka.
I so wish Pakistan had the tradition of releasing classified state documents so proper introspection of primary sources could take place to write proper evidence based history. It is quite amusing to see so called historians claiming to have crack the code on Pakistan's war history while all war records are stored in the archives of GHQ.
Re: 1971 War
As with Sindhi language not getting it's due place, well, a Sindhi party has dominated most of Pakistan's democratic period, and their rule in the province is now spanning over 30 years. So you would think that if Sindhis were so emotional about getting their language whatever due status they desire, PPP would have at least felt some pressure do something about Sindhi language since they have enjoyed power at the highest office, and no damn 'outsiders' have ever bothered disrupting their rule in Sindh. Maybe the blame game has to change its direction a little. If everyone was so obsessed with following founding father's original draft decisions, then Bhutto would not have come up with 1973's constitution, and most certainly he would not have classified Ahmadis as non Muslims.
Languages are wonderful thing, but sometimes you have to decide just how much of a baggage and political clout they can carry because it usually backfires and makes language lose their original case.
Re: 1971 War
Alhamdolillah, Sindhi is in better position as against the other languages of Pakistan, which are shunned in the name of regional languages. It got dozens of daily newspapers, more than 10 satellite TV channels, being used as medium of instruction and a good number of books are published in Sindhi in a year which include original as well translation of international best sellers from Gabriel García Márquez's 'Hundred Years of Solitude' to Edward Gibbon's 'The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'. Books published in Sindhi in India are also frequently transliterated to Arabic script used in Pakistan. So, over all Sindhi is in better position, which is acknowledged by writers and intellectuals of other languages of Pakistan.
When we say Sindhi getting its due status, it means we want continuity of the phenomenon mentioned in above paragraph. There is nothing to make it politicized, sometimes by bringing PPP's bad governance in picture, sometimes raising eyebrows on Sindhi CNIC card and sometimes by alleging that Sindhis hate Urdu and therefore, they twist historical facts. There is nothing like that. Its just some kind of insecurities coming from immature and racial posters, without knowing the facts (like names of milestones and railway stations in Sindh are only Sindhi causing difficulty for travelers to reach their destination). Sindhis have always talked about co-existence and they have time and again proved their love for other languages. On one side, singers like Abida Parveen sung Punjabi kalam of Sufi poets of Punjab which got immense popularity among the Sindhi masses. On other side, Sindhi writers like Noorul Huda Shah, Amar Jalil, Abdul Qadir Junejo, Shaikh Ayaz wrote in Urdu without any hesitation. If there was a hate element for Urdu in Sindh, these writers would not dare to write in Urdu.
To cut it short, I firmly believe that language movement of Bengali in East Pakistan did created bad memories between two parts of the country. Whether this played a role in events that followed in coming years is a debatable issue. Many historian (Non-Sindhi) confirms that it did played a role. Everyone is free to form an opinion on such subjective matters.
Re: 1971 War
^ sachi bat se bohat taqleef hoti ha? jab sachydino Punjabion ko generalize krta ha tb sakoon se baithy hotay ho. 2 qaumi nzria k barray ma bak bak krnay kia zarorat ha seedhi tarah q nae kehtay k hum esay nae mantay aur hamaray sath zabardasti hui ha?
why sindi students had to demonstrate on issue of sindhi names of railway stations?
Re: 1971 War
you havnt seen common sindhis calling punjabis traitor over BB assassination?
you dont know even musharf was warned against giving lecture about kalabagh dam in a sindhi university?
Re: 1971 War
When tandoor wala in Karachi can decide who will get first naan… then anything could be true… 
Re: 1971 War
Leave it. They have shown their true colours. They want to prove themselves free of racial prejudices, but all their posts prove otherwise. Everyone is responsible for his/ her views. Some negative comments by a poster from a particular community should not lead a sane and rational person to get blind in hatred of such community. But here scene is different. God bless them. I'm out.
Re: 1971 War
Okay I had to read my original post to figure out what my thread was all about. Basically the purpose of this thread was to shame those people who mock their own tragedies to deliberately rub salt in people's wounds, use it for emotional blackmailing to push agendas, and treat it as a tool to ridicule, insult, attack and threaten your own Army. Such people are probably worse than traitors, because from traitors you kinda expect this behaviour anyway, but not people who call themselves Pakistanis.
If you think likes of Zardari, and Altaf Hussain reminding Army "ha ha....look what happened to you in 1971, shame shame, now we'll stage the same episode for you if you dare challenge us, yup we'll break the country at whim", is a joke or something so small, then you are a bloody traitor.
Re: 1971 War
@Jolie my apologies if your thread is "ruined" but let me clarify some things.
Some posters comes to mock me only when I discuss things about sindh/karachi. But they remain silent when their own fellows bash other ethnicity. So where is hypocrisy? You know who you are.
"Of the victims of violence, around 75 percent were Pashtuns who had nothing to do with armed gangs or ANP but were killed only for basis of ethnicity"
This is not what i am saying from myself, instead The friday times reported it.
How come saying Raja dahir is hero of sindh is sindh bashing when sindhis themselves believe same?
Why discussing kalabagh dam is so sensitive for those those who give lectures others about challenging religious and political ideologies?
Re: 1971 War
What happened to agenda driven discussions 
For some people, some persons / some institutions are holy cow, but for others its not the case and they want to discuss the mistakes made by those holy cows.
Every discussion got a tangent, but when you come with preconceived conclusion, then it is bound to happen what we saw in this thread. From Raja Dahir to Kala Bagh, from Tandoor wala to agitation by Sindhi students, MQM’s threats to target killing of Pashtuns in Karachi have been discussed. Lets wait when someone raise issue of banning Marwa Hocane in Pakistan 
All powers to posters who never fail to remind: Racist Racist kardi main aap ae racist hui
Re: 1971 War
Holy cow, holy cow. holy cow.....oh whatever! Saying to Army that we will pull another 1971 is a so called bloody discussion of mistakes by holy cow? People who always cry with pure envy and jealousy for holy cow don't even have the nerve to say that wound scratching on 1971 by likes of MQM and PPP is totally unacceptable.
God bless the holy cow for pledging that country will never be broken again, and eff the holy cow 'bloody civilians' like PPP and MQM who are always threatening to repeat 1971. Yeah go do whatever now....
If only holy cow wasn't a Punjabi cow, right?