You can ignore the truth at post #53 and tow the line of deception and lies to satisfy your false pride. Read again my post #53 and read what an army officer said in his book "Stranger in My Own Country". This is first time an army officer has said truth after 42 years of this tragedy. We can cook many stories and blame others but the truth remain the same till dooms day.
Read what one general who was administrator then said. And it is a fact he said that.
Didn't I say that all those who were really responsible were left scot-free, including this drunkard, old cock as per genera Gul Hassan, arrogant dictator. All these war criminas should have been hanged then you could have said karma is a b!tch. What happened in East Pakistan was mishandling the situation by army and dictator sitting in Islamabad. Bhutto paid the price for not sending them to hell, he himself became victim of those war criminals, who he brought them home.
Just two points
1- Does this general talk about some "M.M. Ahmad plan" in this book? If so pls enlighten me abt it as well.
2- Why the political governments have been spineless in establishing the truths abt all these blunders..65, 71, siachen, kargil. At least they should have had the guts to publicize the Hamood-ur-rahman commission report.
but who cares pakistan is a lottery for the crooks and their children be it bureaucrats, politicians, generals, judges, waderas, maliks.
This is all BS you come about. This bakwas has nothing to do with the topic. Keep this gutter bs in your domain or open yet another sewer type thread against Bhutto.
The issue is that the Bangladesh issue is so painful for us that no one has done an in depth analysis of the issue. Where as Bangladesh needs this to construct their national identity.
Sarmila Bose’s book on the 1971 Bangladesh War – Dead Reckoning – has triggered a heated debate about the myths and realities of the conflict that had engulfed East Pakistan, West Pakistan and India.Bose, a former political journalist, is currently a senior research fellow at Oxford.
Dead Reckoning questions many of the facts and figures that have been held sacrosanct in both Bangladesh and India, including the number of people killed by the Pakistan army during the ‘genocide’.
Her assertion that Bengalis were equally involved in the bloodshed, against non-Bengali Bangladeshis and supporters of Pakistan, has infuriated many historians and academicians.
In an e-mail interview with Rediff.com’s Sanchari Bhattacharya, Bose discusses how she chronicled one of the most violent periods in South Asian history and the extreme critical reactions her book has received.
W**hat prompted you to write a book questioning the accepted truths about the Bangladesh War?
**
I didn’t start out with the intention of writing a book questioning the accepted truths about the 1971 war. It was quite the opposite: I started out with the intention of finding detailed information about particular incidents during that conflict which I expected would help document and reinforce the accepted truths, as you put it.
It was only after I started the work that I found that the stories on the ground were much more complicated and differed in important ways from the story which we had grown up believing.
Sorry CM Sahib but just check that who was getting personal ! If someone thinks he is right while abusing some leader then he should get ready for the counter attack.
Keonkah Eant ka jawab Block say daina mujhay bhi aata hay
And apparently, Yahya and Ayub both reportedly said ‘Inn kaalay Bangaalion se jaan chuRao’.
Their minds were made up to dump E. Pak so they could establish their rule in W. Pak after Awami League won the election.
Very interesting discussion on yesterday’s Capital Talk.
Lots of interesting details.
Again that 100 years old brought the name of Bhutto. He knew that Bhutto was not alive whatever he said would be considered as authentic by those who hate Bhutto. This liar should have been hanged for what he did in former East Pakistan.
100-year old former bureaucrat Roedad Khan on December 16 on one private TV channel and as per his practice, he tried to distort image of Z A Bhutto unnecessarily by quoting some informal chat with him in Dhaka in 1971. For the last many years, I have continuously noticed his articles, statements & TV talks all were full of such unconfirmed remarks meant to distort image of Z A Bhutto. For the Dhaka Fall, compared to army & politicians, bureaucrats were more responsible as they were practically running the administration of Eastern Wing (now Bangladesh) since creation of Pakistan i.e. 1947. No doubt, ex-bureaucrat Roedad Khan as well his brother-in-law late ex-President Ishaq Khan both worked in Eastern Wing against various important posts, were mainly responsible for the injustices done to people that finally led to separation of Eastern Wing.
I suggest Roedad Khan that at the age of 100, he should leave his personal ill-will against Z A Bhutto and instead he should write honestly what the bureaucrats had played role in separating Eastern Wing including role of himself and ex-President Ishaq Khan, for the information of our & future generations
Muhammad Khan Sial
Karach
lies upon lies upon lies… we have many pro-Indians here at Gupshup.. nice company!
Typical of the open-air, human abattoirs operated by the Awami League-led rebels in East Pakistan in 1971 is this photograph of multiple-executions done by a Mukti-Bahini killer squad in Dacca Race Course. The pro-Pakistan Bengali and non-Bengali victims were tortured before being slain
A scene of Mukti Bahini mass murder of Biharis in Dacca on December 18, 1971. A rebel soldier lifts his boot to strike a bleeding bayoneted boy who showed signs of life. Dead bodies of other slain non-Bengalis lie in the foreground.
“I am the lone survivor of a group of ten Pathans who were employed as Security Guards by the Delta Construction Company in the Mohakhali locality in Dacca; all the others were slaughtered by the Bengali rebels in the night of March 25, 1971”, said 40-year-old Bacha Khan.
.. I heard the screams of an Urdu-speaking girl who was being ravished by her awami league captors but I was so scared that I did not have the courage to emerge from hiding” said a 24-year-old Zahid Abdi, who was employed in a trading firm in Dacca. He escaped the slaughter of the non-Bengalis in the crowded New Market locality of Dacca on March 23, 1971 and was sheltered by a God-fearing Bengali in his shop. The killers raped their non-Bengali teenage victim at the back of the shop and later on slayed her.”
“My only daughter has been insane since she was forced by her savage tormentors to watch the brutal murder of her husband”, said Mukhtar Ahmed Khan, 43, while giving an account of his suffering during the Ides of March 1971 in Dacca….“In the third week of March 1971, a gang of armed Bengali rebels raided house of my son-in-law and overpowered him. He was a courageous Youngman and he resisted the attackers. My daughter also resisted the attackers but they were far too many and they were well armed. They tied up my son-in-law and my daughter with ropes and they forced her to watch as they slit the throat of her husband and ripped his stomach open in the style of butchers. She fainted and lost consciousness. Since that dreadful day she has been mentally ill.”
Shamim Akhtar, 28, whose husband was employed as a clerk in the Railway office in Dacca, lived in a small house in the Mirpur locality there.
She described her tragedy in these words:
“On December 17, 1971, the Mukti Bahini cut off the water supply to our homes. We used to get water from a nearby pond; it was polluted and had a bad odour. I was nine months pregnant. On December 23, 1971, I gave birth to a baby girl. No midwife was available and my husband helped me at child birth. Late at night, a gang of armed Bengalis raided our house, grabbed my husband and trucked him away. I begged them in the name of God to spare him as I could not even walk and my children were too small. The killers were heartless and I learnt that they murdered my husband. After five days, they returned and ordered me and my children to vacate the house as they claimed that it was now their property.”
Zaibunnissa Haq, 30, whose journalist husband, Izhar-ul-Haque, worked as a columnist in the Daily Watan in Dacca, gave this account of her travail in 1971:
[INDENT]….On December 21, a posse of Mukti Bahini soldiers and some thugs rode into our locality with blazing guns and ordered us to leave our house as, according to them, no Bihari could own a house in Bangladesh. For two days, we lived on bare earth in an open space and we had nothing to eat. Subsequently, we were taken to a Relief Camp by the Red Cross."
*As the victim did not die in a single bayonet strike, another Mukti-Bahini killer plunged his bayonet in to the writhing Bihari’s chest. Dead bodies of Bihari and Bengali victims lie strewn over the execution ground as Mukti-Bahini killers and their accomplices watch the butchery with sadist pleasure.
*“Four armed thugs dragged two captive non-Bengali teenage girls into an empty bus and violated their chastity before gunning them to death”, said Gulzar Hussain, 38, who witnessed the massacre of 22 non-Bengali men, women and children on March 21, 1971, close to a bus stand in Narayangang. Repatriated to Karachi in November 1973, Gulzar Hussain reported: “….On March 21, our Dacca-bound bus was stopped on the way, soon after it left the heart of the city. I was seated in the front portion of the bus and I saw that the killer gang had guns, scythes and daggers. The gunmen raised ‘Joi Bangla’ and anti-Pakistan slogans. The bus driver obeyed their signal to stop and the thugs motioned to the passengers to get down. A jingo barked out the order that Bengalis and non-Bengalis should fall into separate lines. As I spoke Bengali with a perfect Dacca accent and could easily pass for a Bengali, I joined the Bengali group of passengers. The killer gang asked us to utter a few sentences in Bengali which we did. I passed the test and our tormentors instructed the Bengalis to scatter. The thugs then gunned all the male non-Bengalis. It was a horrible scene. Four of the gunmen took for their loot two young non-Bengali women and raped them inside the empty bus. After they had ravished the girls, the killers shot them and half a dozen other women and children.”
A Bihari victim grabbed by Mukti-Bahini killers, begging for mercy.
“At gun point, our captors made us leave our house and marched us to an open square where more than 500 non –Bengali old men, women and children were detained. Some 50 Bengali gunmen led us through swampy ground towards a deserted school building. On the way, the 3-year-old child of a hapless captive woman died in her arms. She asked her captors to allow her to dig a small grave and bury the child. The tough man in the lead snorted a sharp ‘NO’, snatched the body of the dead child from her wailing mother and tossed it into the river”
The Awami League’s rebellion of March 1971 took the heaviest toll of non-Bengali lives in the populous port city of Chittagong. Although the Government of Pakistan’s White Paper of August 1971 on the East Pakistan crisis estimated the non-Bengali death toll in Chittagong and its neighbouring townships during the Awami League’s insurrection to be a little under 15,000, the testimony of hundreds of eye-witnesses interviewed for this book gives the impression that more than 50,000 non-Bengalis perished in the March 1971 carnage. Thousands of dead bodies were flung into the Karnaphuli river and the Bay of Bengal.
Savage killings also took place in the Halishahar, Kalurghat and Pahartali localities where the Bengali rebel soldiers poured petrol and kerosine oil around entire blocks, igniting them with flame-throwers and petrol-soaked jute balls, then mowed down the non-Bengali innocents trying to escape the cordons of fire. In the wanton slaughter in the last week of March and early April, 1971, some 40,000 non-Bengalis perished in Chittagong and its neighbourhood. The exact death toll, which could possibly be much more will never be known because of the practice of burning dead bodies or dumping them in the river and the sea..
Some of the stories might be true. But again rulers were responsible for creating such a situation. This did not happen in just one day. How long you deny the rights of living of majority population of a country? There is a limit. Had Bengali offered to form a government, nothing of that sort was going to happen. Sole responsibility lied on West Pakistani corrupt, rapists, drunkard rulers who enjoyed absolute powers to rule Pakistan. Get this fact downloaded into your brain.
By the way I am not Indian and never have been a friend to Indian. If facts are so bitter for you, don't visit this thread.
3 million is a very doubtful figure anyway. It would have meant killing 33,000 every month during the 9 months.
Pakistan had 90,000 military related people.Only 40000-54,000 of them actual fighting soldiers.
How can 40,000-54,000 soldiers, while being stretched fighting M.Bhani and the massive Indian army across BDesh at the same time have the time or resources to kill 3 million?
As for Haseena, she's a joke.
While what we did was disgusting none the less and every innocent we killed or raped is horrid however saying that Bangladesh seems to be intent on rewriting history and keen to forget the horrors their ''rebels'' committed as well.
While what we did was disgusting none the less and every innocent we killed or raped is horrid however saying that Bangladesh seems to be intent on rewriting history and keen to forget the horrors their ''rebels'' committed as well.
There is no such proof only narrations of few families who suffered reaction. Why the rulers of time and news papers did not record such events? What stopped them to apprehend these killers? Why they hid these events from West Pakistanis? Weren't their responsibility to provide the safety to minority? 100 years old dogs like Roe Dad Khan were the people to see the safety of every one. But these dogs were more interested in looting, raping, killing and destroying East Pakistani. These ex-ruling dogs dead or alive shared the major responsibility not "mukti bahini"
There is no such proof only narrations of few families who suffered reaction. Why the rulers of time and news papers did not record such events? What stopped them to apprehend these killers? Why they hid these events from West Pakistanis? Weren't their responsibility to provide the safety to minority? 100 years old dogs like Roe Dad Khan were the people to see the safety of every one. But these dogs were more interested in looting, raping, killing and destroying East Pakistani. These ex-ruling dogs dead or alive shared the major responsibility not "mukti bahini"
your criticism is very bitter and distasteful... to a degree that you are trying to paint an incorrect picture to what actually happened. It was NOT AT ALL like "west pakistani dogs" against the "poor innocent eastern populace". it was not so "black and white". Indians were actively involved in this "tragedy", which people like you may call "independence". Indians used and exploited the very real grievances of the east pakistanis and "hijacked" their plight and struggle and turned it into a war of massacres and unparalleled atrocities committed "mainly" by the indian infiltration of mukti bahini towards the people from west pakistan. All "pro-pakistanis" were systematically massacred and that too "not" with a complete "consent" of those very same "poor neglected bengalis". If pakistan had wanted to coompletely "crush" the "Indian backed rebellion" .. we may still have had our eastern front.. but that would have resulted in death of millions of muslims. (just like syrian army doing to crush the rebellion of sunni muslims... they are literally killing "everyone" to win that war to attrition)
Truth is always bitter. Better to swallow it rather than closing eyes like an ostrich and shifting responsibility. It has been fashion of JI and rulters it has supported since 1947 that their crimes and fups have always been transpired in to conspiracy theories like above.
**That is the reality in a country where the Jamaat-i-Islami still celebrates those accused of committing atrocities in then East Pakistan as its heroes, forcing some other parties to do the same. Forty-two years later gains are still to be made by suppression of truth that has been confirmed most tellingly by soldiers sent over from West Pakistan.
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Pakistanis’ inability to come to terms with facts is best summed up by their feigned ignorance of the contents of the Hamoodur Rehman Commission report whose findings were kept under wraps for decades.
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Hypocrisy is too small a word to describe this Pakistani attitude. Political parties have been making minor adjustments in their positions depending on whether they were in power or in the opposition. And despite some voices from within calling on Pakistan to apologise unconditionally, the country is sadly unrepentant of the devastating war crimes in the then East Pakistan.
**
anything and any opinion that tends to differ with your viewpoint is a “conspiracy”.. for you Pakistan is the cause of ALL problems… any fact that is presented to you mean nothing if it doesn’t put the blame on Pakistani “dogs” as you put it..
the Indians intervened in a very big and huge way in East Pakistan and is directly responsible for the breakup of Pakistan.. a fact that your visible “biased” mind cannot afford to fathom.
the Indians intervened in a very big and huge way in East Pakistan and is directly responsible for the breakup of Pakistan.. a fact that your visible "biased" mind cannot afford to fathom.
In 1965, Pakistan interfered in Indian Kashmir and sent its regular army to fight as freedom fighters to liberate Kashmir. The proxy war proved to start the same tactics in 1971 by India. I am talking about proactive solution to that problem and you are talking about the after effects of actions by former West Pakistani rulers.
Like most pakistanis I grew up reading and hearing a very glossed over version of the 1971 war. A friend recently shared this article on facebook and I feel sick down to the pit of my stomach because the more i read and the more resources i find, the more i know its true. I also found a short documentary of bangli women who were impregnated by pakistani soldiers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwwPbkyZVJo
The above video makes you wonder what our army is doing down in balochistan… If you google search on some of the recent “operations”, you will find some very disturbing pictures of very very mutilated bodies. but even scarier than the pictures are the accounts of mass graves/genocide and the complete media black out, far worse than any we have ever witnessed.
I once met a vetern who told me there are only 3 kind of men who join the army the patriotic, the poor, and the crazies and unfortunately he’d only seen most belonging in the 3rd category ( he belonged in the 2nd and couldn’t afford college so joined the army). one can only hope and pray for a peaceful world with no war and no military in any country
sach hamaisha karwa lagta hay aur neechay say opar tak aag laga daita hay :mirch:
but just check that who was getting personal ! If someone thinks he is right while abusing some leader then he should get ready for the counter attack.
