1965 War

[Punjabee_in_USA]

@pak-one

India’s losses have nothing to do with “trusting” either China or Pakistan. India and Pakistan had already fought in 1948 where (if you take the Indian perspective) 1/3 of Kashmir was lost to Pakistan and Aksai Chin to China, so it’s not like the Indian leadership was completely unaware of the regional hostilities.

Well, it might surprise you but Indian leadership was actually napping despite the regional hostilities. Nehru was working on “Hindi Cheeni Bhai Bhai” while the Chinese were making military preparations. Similarly, Pak was also not seen as a threat (big mistake). The situation was repeated by Vajpayee in 1999 with the bus trip & other peace overtures towards Pak, while Pak was planning Kargil. Luckily we were much better off militarily in 1999 compared to 1965 and that helped us.

@pak-one

Indira was definitely the Iron Lady of India. The losses in 1971 were incredibly decisive for Pakistan, but let us not forget that the local population (E. Pakistanis) was openly hostile to Pakistani military due to the political repression and military violence before India had gotten involved. But a loss is a loss.

Pak tried to use local support in Kashmir in 1965 to defeat India, but that plan backfired. India used that same tactic successfully in 1971. As they say what goes around, comes around…

@pak-one

I am not sure how much worse of a loss it would have been in 99 with Kargil. Unlike the previous wars, Pakistan, newly a declared nuclear power would always have that option and with the impending loss of the major population centers, would exercise it. Pakistani military and command structure is surprisingly apocalyptic in that respect.

I don’t think Pakistan represents that threat to India, as eyes have turned to China. I don’t think China would attack India at any juncture, but Indian anxieties clearly reaching a fevered pitch vis-a-vis the rise of China’s military power. If you make an honest assesment of India’s capabilities versus China (an equal regional power) the situation turns bleaker for the Indian side.

Like I have been saying in the past, wars with India are not to Pakistan’s benefit economically. Even the '65 wrecked our economy for DECADES. I don’t think an open firendship with India is possible either, so the idea of “good fences make good neighbors” is probably the way to go.

Personally I don’t mind working with Indians or even Israelis where the collaboration yields the best outcomes. In the global context economic interests should be separated from political ones.

India cannot match up to China in conventional military prowess. The Chinese economy is a lot bigger, and they spend a bigger chunk of their GDP on defence spending. However, China realizes that India will not be a push over in a war and a war with India would cause a great loss to the Chinese economy. So for now, I dont expect China to initiate open hostilities.