14 Hajj pilgrims trampled to death

Society Religion & Philosophy
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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by google: *

Here, you are supposed to think about prophet Ibrahim(pbuh) and his Son Prophet Ismail(pbuh). You are supposed to think ‘how hard it was for a father to sacrifice his Son’. And when you throw stones, remember all the devils that tempt you in this life and if you are not committed to kill this shaitan then it will take you with him in Akhira.
[/QUOTE]

but thinking of the prophet and his son.....and trying to make urself stringer innnerly doesn't necessarily require throwing stones at a stone, now does it?
u can have remembrance without throwing....

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imagine how much of a chaos it will be in 30, 40 years.

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you would think that these saudi elites make million in profits from hajj they would expand the capacity and implement better crowd control....i guess since people consider it a privelage to die during hajj they cant be bothered.

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"imagine how much of a chaos it will be in 30, 40 years."

Nah, SA will be the 52nd US state by then and things should go much more smoothly ;)

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Stu: *

Nah, SA will be the 52nd US state by then and things should go much more smoothly ;)
[/QUOTE]
Who will be 51st?

26

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *

First and foremost we have to go back to the Qur'an.. the Prophet's only complain against us as an ummah on Judgement Day would be that we deserted the Qur'an, not his Sunnah, but the Qur'an.
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The Qur'an points to the Sunnah.

[quote]
Next we need to develop the strength in our faith to question it. There is this latent fear and insecurity amongst Muslims to question their religion. They only set out to explain it or apologize for it, rather than scrutinize it.
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That may be the case with some Muslims. I know plenty of other Muslims who are prepared to debate and "question their religion" whether that relates to interpreting a verse of the Qur'an or a hadith.

[quote]
Ahh some of the worst abused verses in the Qur'an.. The 'example' the Prophet set was of monotheism, just like we are to take Abraham as an example. Does not mean we are now to go dig up jewish traditions and stories and declare them his prophetic teachings. We are just to become Muslims following the example set by these Noble prophets of rejecting polytheism.
[/quote]

Let me get this right… Prophets and Messengers are examples only in creed, not rituals, behaviour or jurisprudence??

[quote]
Iqbal, seriously these cheap digs don't befit you.. I expect better.
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I'm sorry if you don't like being reminded when you apply one rule for yourself and another rule for others. Time and again you've failed - in fact, not even attempted - to prove the Qur'an by the very standards you set for hadith.

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I'm not 'monitoring' anyone's rituals..
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Aren't you?

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Everyone is still welcome to go throw stones and get trampled on..
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People die due to congestion during many phases of the Hajj - should we just abandon it all together?

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Time and again you try to equate the Hadiths with the Qur'an.
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Unfortunately, you've done this yourself already.

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My complaint with Hadith is not that it can't be proven to be divine revelation, it's the method employed to declare it 'correct' or 'authentic' or coming from a particular source
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What method is it by which the Qur'an was recorded and preserved that you find so convincing?

[quote]
*You know and I know that the collection of Qur'an was done much earlier in more favorable environments and maybe that's why today all sects have at least the Qur'an as the common denominator and the Qur'an itself tells us we need no other document in it's support. *
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You are using the majority/consensus argument in your favour whereas you've criticised others for doing the same. See what i mean?

And Allah knows best.

Iqbal

27

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by NeSCio: *

but thinking of the prophet and his son.....and trying to make urself stringer innnerly doesn't necessarily require throwing stones at a stone, now does it?
u can have remembrance without throwing....
[/QUOTE]

Yes! It is very possible. In fact people say .."We do not have to make ablutions(wudu) and do the namaz. Actions of standing, bowing and prostration is not required because Allah swt know what is inside everyone hearts and HE knows who believes and who doesn’t".

But is this what Islam requires from you ? No! Islam says "What Prophet give take it and what he refrain..don't do it."

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by google: *

Yes! It is very possible. In fact people say .."We do not have to make ablutions(wudu) and do the namaz. Actions of standing, bowing and prostration is not required because Allah swt know what is inside everyone hearts and HE knows who believes and who doesn’t".
[/quote]

but performing certain actions during namaaz is so important that it is mentioned in the Quran. but throwing stones?

ps: note the bolded 'so'

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Yeah, and this war is not against Islam.

Oh guide of the mankind, please tell us how it should’ve been.

So you are going to go to hajj in a small ship from US and start your land travel from Israel on foot, when you die either in ocean or heat or cold (as hajj these days is in winter) we’ll all say “hey, NYAhmedi performed hajj”. you happy?

That tells a lot about what kind of people you live among. :hehe:

yeah, sure, go ahead and donate to GW Bush’s upcoming election campaign, as for you he is a hero of a civilisation.

30

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by NeSCio: *
but performing certain actions during namaaz is **so* important that it is mentioned in the Quran. but throwing stones?
ps: note the bolded 'so'
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I think it is mentioned somewhere in the holy Book (refer the story Of prophet Ibrahim and Shaytan that tried to mislead him).

I guess what I am trying to say here is that sometimes our thinking capability doesn’t go beyond certain milestone. There is deepener meaning to Hajj ritual that meets the eyes.