Sorry folks, in the case of Japan, I am completely Machiavelian. The ends justify the means. The US was a country exhausted mentally emotionally and financially. We fought a truely global war, and the prospect of fighting a hand to hand war against the Japanese on their home soil is patently stupid. Do I wish that a "demonstration" of the bomb had been scheduled? Sure. Do I wish that a more military target had been chosen? Sure. How much regret is there? Not much.
What you do not have the courage or the wisdom to say, and the point you miss completely is that the world is a much better place without Nazi Germany, and Imperial Japan. The US sacrificed more than you will know to insure that Europe and Asia today are free. I will accept your thanks at any time.
War and power are brutal things. Get used to it. When I see Pakistani's mourning the brutal slayings in Bangledesh, bringing the Generals responsible for over THREE TIMES as many civilian deaths as Nagaski and Hiroshima to justice, then I will believe that your heart is speaking, not your anti-American politics. Until then, ignoring the nature of the war, the brutality of the Japanese regime is just plain stupid. It is taking historical events out of context for your own anti-American views. When fighting a brutal enemy, you must be brutal. The high ground is not absolute.
Well…this thread was originally made to remember the devastation war can bring through the various new weaponry. But if you’d like to make this another question of right and wrong…lets forget the people that died for a lil pow wow debating action.
OhioGuy : :k:…although I feel the bombardment was somewhat unfair…but then, war’s never fair.
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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
War and power are brutal things. Get used to it. When I see Pakistani's mourning the brutal slayings in Bangledesh, bringing the Generals responsible for over THREE TIMES as many civilian deaths as Nagaski and Hiroshima to justice, then I will believe that your heart is speaking, not your anti-American politics. Until then, ignoring the nature of the war, the brutality of the Japanese regime is just plain stupid. It is taking historical events out of context for your own anti-American views. When fighting a brutal enemy, you must be brutal. The high ground is not absolute.
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You see we cannot mourn the salyings as you call in Bangladesh. It was done to protect further killings of millions of Pakistanis. The fact that they lost civilians in that war, is really the smallest story here. Do you believe that?
I thought only muslims are accused of blame displacement. Seems like ABUS (Anyone But Us) syndrome is present elsewhere as well. Fighting the Nazis and Japan was nobel. Dropping a nuclear bomb on cities full of civilians, and killing 100,000+ people and doing lasting damage to millions others for generations to come, because a country is "exhausted mentally emotionally and financially" from war is just scraping to find something that can displace blame.
Anyway, US being the only country to have used nuclear weapons on civilians is well documented. There have been countless discussions where supporters of US have defended their actions and everyone else has scoffed at such arguments. We are not creating anything new or more productive. You can pat yourself on your back once more for ending the war by killing 100,000. The rest can go back to posting their tirades against US.
Interesting thing is that the number of civilian dead from dropping the nuke on Hiroshima could easily have been duplicated using more traditional weapons. The fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo resulted in civilian casualties estimated as being between 25,000 to 100,000 each.
For those who think dropping the nuke was so terrible, would you have preferred the allied forces continuing with fire bombing of Japanese cities? The fire bombing did not have the psychological effect of the Atomic bomb. We could have burned dozens of cities killing millions of civilians and the war would have ground on.
It's fascinating to me that those who now vigorously castigate the US for dropping the Hiroshima bomb very seldom are heard addressing the fire bombings that caused equal or greater devastation and loss of life.
WWII was hell on earth. The bombings on Hirsohima and Nagasaki marked the end of the hell. Given that the only two choices that existed at the time were ending it sooner or ending it later, I personally think the right choice was made. How we made it end is not something that is particularly worth rejoicing about. But, forgetting or never learning the true horror and hell that existed might very well lead to the world experiencing it again.
If we are to judge the morality of actions taken during war, surely the baseline should be the number of innocents who die or will die not the nature of the weapon that causes the death. The nature of the weapon is not really relevant. If I can win the war by killing one innocent person or I can win the war by killing 10 innocent people, the correct choice is to kill only 1.
Obviously, in the best of all possible worlds, you’d win the war without killing any innocent people. But that is not war. That is not hell. And that was not an option in WWII.
Bud! You are preaching to the church of Sad-Damn, Gamal “Nak-Seer” Nasir. They would have rather lived under Nazis, or Imperial Japan, or Melosovich any day. It is a different thing as to how long these mor**ns would have survived.
400,000 young Americans died and 1.2 million emotionally and physically scarred fighting Nazis, Mussolini, and Imperial Japan. You have to forget getting any thanks from the followers of OinkBL.
1971 fiasco was led by Pak-supported Al-Bad-ar and Bharat-supported Mukti-Bahini, both terrorist organizations.
OinkBL terrorists Toe-Head just sanctioned Shia killing on this very board on another thread.
Is war just? Is the cost accountable? Or must we, in our own definition of justice decide wheter the lives paid are worth the lives saved.
A lil for our Shakespeare aficionados, cheers...you're alive.
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If the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make; when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in a battle, shall join together at the latter day, and cry all 'We died at such a place;' some swearing, some crying for a surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left. I am afeard there are few die well that die in a battle: for how can they charitably dispose of anything when blood is their argument! Now, if these men do not die well, it will be a black matter for the king that led them to it. - Shakespeare, King Henry V
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