face up
ofcourse i am not denying the fact that sunnah is the most important base of shariah and we cannot change wat rasulullah said. but if circumstances come such that one would not be able to gather info abt it from sunnah or Quraan then we r to do consensus.
well Rasulullah was right in considering the fact that world would not stop at 7th century, don't we hv cars, t.vs and dish antenna and internet, and i could go on forever, nothing in our religion has been said abt these things so one has to do qiyas as every being has a sense of rite and wrong even though some may not use it.
if u could please tell me where u hv read such a weak hadith as saying that prophet comanded not to write his words then i might consider ur words, and plz telll me from where u get hold of such stuff.
there is a very very wide difference between islam and ulemas, islam says that it is obligatory for both men and women to get education. if u go on believing on ulema's words the only God can help u. but to just add a few thinngs i know some maulvis, and very staunch muslims who hav go children both males and females and they r getting educated from the best of institutes. one of his daughters is doing Mba, now wat do u say to that??
get hold of true ulemas and u'll know wat islam really is.
Hinna
In no way I'm judging anybody. All I'm pointing out to is that in your posting you have said the ten things which nullyfy one's islam and point no. 8 puts many muslim countries along with Pakistan in that catagory. They all fought agianst Iraq and the British and Americans were their allies.
So simply put, according to your posting, these countries have nullified their Islam. Or on the other hand you may want to make some amendments in your original posting, so that these countries don't have to have their Islam nullified.
Mr xtreme
Are you saying that Saudis and Kuwaitis are not true Muslims and they can not be compared with the rest of the muslim people?
Also what about Pakistan as well fighting on the same side with the British and Americans as allies?
Are you saying that Saudis and Kuwaitis are not true Muslims and they can not be compared with the rest of the muslim people?
I am saying that their actions don't necessarily reflect Islam. If a member of the Saudi royal family spends $100,000 in a casino in Las Vegas, it isn't cuz it is recommended in Islam. Definitely, to send muslim army to fight other nuslims to protect American oil interests is not a commendable action.
They don't represent us in any shape or form.The Saudi/Kuwait royal family and all 'royalty' in the middle east are a bunch of bloated fat rhinos, IMO. I hope that answers your question.
okie...logical...moderate Islam?? Plz define moderate Islam. I only thought there was ONE ISLAM....
as for the kalma being able to aid in Shirk. That can't be possible. I haven't seen any translations of it where it is stated that the Prophet Muhammed (saw) was a Partner of Allah...but a *MESSENGER *.
- "Do not write anything from me EXCEPT QURAN. Anyone who wrote anything other than the Quran shall erase it."
" the messenger of God ordered us NEVER to write anything of his hadith." *
What source did you get this from?
Sanja... let me ask you this...do u see Pakistan as a TRUE Muslim nation? Hmm...the government is corrupt, illegal substances are widely available, the actions of a large sum of the population are NOT how a Muslim or Muslima should act.....
And as for adjusting my post...I don't think I can do that. I posted what a person had written. I don't have the authority to change the wording or say that a country's Islam is nullified or not. That is upto Allah (swt).
[This message has been edited by Hinna (edited September 01, 2000).]
OK Hinna and Mr Xtreme
Point taken, now we know that Pakistan, Saudi Arab and Kuwait as nations have disobeyd the point no.8, we have to wait and see if their Islam will be nullified by the allmighty Allah.
Hinna,
1)You seem to have misread the analogy that was drawn with the kalima as an example; and, the message of this analogy is that any belief can be twisted into being a shirk; and, that is constantly being done. Pls read on...
Here's how it was explained in the following two examples:
i) Tell me, In our shahadah/kalima we recite: "No God but God and Muhammed is the Rasool of Allah"
We are associating Prophet Muhammed (saw) with Allah here. Does this make Muhammed into Partner of Allah?
Of course not! And, neither is Sunnah a Partner of Allah!
Associating "Partners with Allah" analogy is widely used by wahabis and extremist sunni sects to twist & misrepresent beliefs of moderate sects of Islam.
ii) Did you find faceup's analogy re: the Kalima being a Shirk helpful! His point was that it could be "made to look" like Muhammed(saw)is Partner of Allah! Of course, kalima is not shirk; but that is how beliefs can be twisted!
Of course Muhammad(saw) is not Partner of Allah. Prophet Muhammad is the Prophet & Messanger of Allah. May Allah's blessings be with Rasul-lillah and his family!
2) The second matter that I would like to assist in your understanding, if I may please, is about moderate Islam:
Let's take the example cited by logical when he cited a rather controversial saying & belief of one Ibn Arabi, considered 'shirk' by some muslims.
The sufi Ibn Arabi cites:
"If the believer understood the meaning of the saying 'the color of the water is the color of the receptacle', he would admit the validity of all beliefs and he would recognise God in every form and every object of faith."
Now, this may conflict with tawheed according to some. I find this saying - beautiful, and perfectly in harmony with principles of Islam!
Those who call this verse of Ibn Arabi - 'shirk' are extremists; those who do not are moderate muslims. What are you?
[This message has been edited by faceup (edited September 06, 2000).]
faceup says:
So you agree with the validity of all beliefs? So now you have to accept the beliefs of the Wahabbis then whom you generally describe as “pisspots”, perhaps to show how moderate you are
Even moderates draw the line!
It would be very difficult for the wahabbis, since their inception 200 years ago and their historical records, to prove that their creed could be justified as a 'religious belief'.
This is confirmed furthermore by LittleBoy's pompous claim that 'he doesn't get paid to divide the ummah'.