Re: Zardari to get immunity from NRO as president
I have read this (atleast he doesn't try to hide his bias) statement about someone else b4. So sumone who tries not to hide his bias is better than someone who is presenting things matter of factly? I rem Ansar Abbassi as being the only journalist who took a very strong stand against the ( at that time very strong)Mush led gov't last year.
Oh and one more thing, His corruptillency mentioned that agreements are not words of the Holy Quran. he needs to think again and perhaps someone needs to remind him too, when the Holy Prophet pbuh reached upon agreements (one of them woz the peace treaty of Hudaibiya, correct me if I am wrong) with the Quresh, he(pbuh) kept his words and didn't retreat, and none of those treaties were sworn on the Holy Qura'n, an agreement, a promise is like a personal guarantee and one who makes such mockery of his own words can never be trusted. Perhaps a more knowledgeable person would care to explain wot I am trying to say in more detail as I am in a hurry and can't really write a long post.
The day Zardari becomes president would be yet another tragic day in the history of Pak.
why so?
people elected PPP knowing that Zardari was the top cat there. so PPP has people's mandate fully knowing that Zardari will be a major player, as PM, president or the puppet (read Gilani) master.
Re: Zardari to get immunity from NRO as president
^ People elected him yes, but does that mean hes not corrupt money laundering personality?
Re: Zardari to get immunity from NRO as president
people elected him knowing that didn't they?
party leaders allowed the party to become a family business didn't they?
I have never said he is not corrupt, I am just saying this is democracy in action.
people elected him knowing that didn't they? party leaders allowed the party to become a family business didn't they?
I have never said he is not corrupt, I am just saying this is democracy in action.
I wouldn't really say that, its more like wanna-be-democracy.
people elected him knowing that didn't they? party leaders allowed the party to become a family business didn't they?
I have never said he is not corrupt, I am just saying this is democracy in action.
If the previous president had done his job right, placed the country before the survival of his kursi, Zardari would be ineligible to run for the presidency. He spent millions of dollars to lawyers to prosecute Zardari, only to undo it all by a NRO deal.
You cant blame the people for this, no way.
If the previous president had done his job right, placed the country before the survival of his kursi, Zardari would be ineligible to run for the presidency. He spent millions of dollars to lawyers to prosecute Zardari, only to undo it all by a NRO deal.
You cant blame the people for this, no way.
Sorry, but lets get all the wrongs noted here
1) Musharraf's NRO
2) PPP leaders sitting like dummies when B*aynazir wills PPP to her son and they sat doing nothing as Asif became "co"-chairman of the party
3) People could have voted for PML-N if they wanted or anyone else, but they made a choice knowing asif was running the show.
all are responsible.
I wouldn't really say that, its more like wanna-be-democracy.
so something masquerading as democracy iun action. is this what people voted for? or did they not know that this is the type of situation that they will run into?
Sorry, but lets get all the wrongs noted here
1) Musharraf's NRO 2) PPP leaders sitting like dummies when B*aynazir wills PPP to her son and they sat doing nothing as Asif became "co"-chairman of the party 3) People could have voted for PML-N if they wanted or anyone else, but they made a choice knowing asif was running the show.
The PML[N] literally carried out their election campaign in a few days, and despite that, came out in flying colors considering (with the time they had, they focused on their stronghold Punjab, where they took out the Q league) a little while ago it was written off as a major force. Again, I dont blame the people. They would have voted for the PPP even if Zardari was behind bars. It is the NRO that is to blame for this. Had there been no NRO, there would have been no President Zardari, just like how Nawaz Sharif is not in the National Assembly.
so something masquerading as democracy iun action. is this what people voted for? or did they not know that this is the type of situation that they will run into?
It is more of wanna-be because how it was manuevered, how "leaders" were brought in, how everything fell in place for Zardari etc, its wanna-be because the parties themselves are not democratic internally.
The PML[N] literally carried out their election campaign in a few days, and despite that, came out in flying colors considering (with the time they had, they focused on their stronghold Punjab, where they took out the Q league) a little while ago it was written off as a major force. Again, I dont blame the people. They would have voted for the PPP even if Zardari was behind bars. It is the NRO that is to blame for this. Had there been no NRO, there would have been no President Zardari, just like how Nawaz Sharif is not in the National Assembly.
and PPP leaders are without any power to do what is right, or do you think that they thought it was right, or did they know it was wrong but they really did not care because it would get them power.
the point I was making was that people had a choice to vote and they picked PPP knowing that there is a crook incharge there. They had other options that they did not pursue.
Re: Zardari to get immunity from NRO as president
^ The setup (thanks to the dictatorship) did not allow the other options to come out effectively. One such example is the PTI. Hopefully, things calm down, and PPP completes this term, while the other sincerer forces get their act right and agenda across so that people can vote for them. This is the stablest and brightest path we have for now. I hope the PML[N] lets the PPP complete this term, though they should keep the restoration of the independent judiciary alive.
Re: Zardari to get immunity from NRO as president
This country is going straight to hell...
^ The setup (thanks to the dictatorship) did not allow the other options to come out effectively. One such example is the PTI. Hopefully, things calm down, and PPP completes this term, while the other sincerer forces get their act right and agenda across so that people can vote for them. This is the stablest and brightest path we have for now. I hope the PML[N] lets the PPP complete this term, though they should keep the restoration of the independent judiciary alive.
PTI decided to not take part in the elections and it wastheir own fault.
Now I agree with you that hopefully other more sincere fores get their act together because it is way overdue now.
Unless PPP really starts screwing up where we get to a situation needing early elections, I agree that they should be allowed to complete their term and opposition keep them 'honest' and people hold them accountable for what they want them to do.
its growing pains of a democracy and in our case it has its own issues but eventually one hopes that faces will change, and people will really give their performance review on the polling stations.
and its not restoration of independent judiciary, but creation of one that is needed. we cant consider musharraf's rule as illegal and all PCO judges as legal.
I mentioned that Zardari remains the man in charge regardless of which one of his stooges or he himself becomes president. If president's powers get reduced that makes it even more of a non-issue. So regardless of whether he stays true to his word or not about 58-2b, the bottomline does not change.
I agree with you that regardless of 58-2-B being scrapped or not, Zardari as the karta dharta of PPP remains the most powerful person in the government. However, re: 58-2-B, its not a personality driven, or rather it should not be personality driven. If in principle, we all agree that an indirectly elected President should NOT have the power to dismiss popularly elected Parliament and government, then regardless of who is residing in the President's House, this provision from the constitution should be stricken out.
It appears a tragedy of our times that choices for leader in our country range from Zardari to Sharif, who as you point out, have both been reckless law-breakers (NS' goons stormed the Supreme Court and now he is the Champion of judicial independence) and have gone back on their words more than once. Zardari, however is poised to become the Head of State and leads the largest political party, so he is definitely more relevant in this discussion as opposed to NS who is about to be relegated to the role of an unelected leader of the party in opposition.
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