[quote]
Originally posted by UMAIR316:
It was a shame that he had to miss the World Cup in 92, as he was the most emerging bowler in the international scene at that time or Pakistan would have won even more convincingly, *kind of like todays Shoaib.
*
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Please, do not insult Waqar by saying that he's yesterday's Shoaib. If anything Shoaib can only hope to be what Waqar was in the ninties and not the other way around.
Wasim and Waqar's greatness as sportsmen is untouchable. Hizb, just 'cause all you can produce is dibbly dobbly 50 mph trundlers like the Karnatka Express and so on, does not mean that our Waqar lacks the heart to rip the batsman's stumps out.
[quote]
Originally posted by Hizbul:
** As for your comments regarding Waqar being a good human being... sorry buddy but we are discussing cricket here not somebody's personality traits... and please do not try to garner points on this forum.**
[/quote]
We are discussing Cricket here and his role in Pakistan cricket Involves his personality traits as well. Above all we are discussing Best matches, untill you jumped in with your FALTU COMMENTS.
I guess you have not been around here long, Just because I dont agree with a hate monger (who happens to be from my country) doesn't mean I am garnering points on this forum. And do you think that by insulting and abusing few Paki cricketers you will become the greatest Indian supporter ? To be very frank, I dont think your posts are worth replying.
Waqar Younis is one of the greatest cricketers of our generation and If you believe otherwise, then start a different thread and prove it. But please spare this thread.
Hizbul, there is a difference in Warqar and others he is a attacking bowler he just want to come in and vanish everyone. He is always in a bet to take wickets and ofcourse with this aim you are going to get punishment too sometimes because batsmen use his pace to dispatch him to the boundry. No one cares if he gives even 60 runs in 10 overs as far as he is breaking the backbone of opponent and getting 3,4,5 main wickets.
I suggest you better go and learn some cricket before coming to this forum.
Sambi, I think Waqar of early 90s and today's Shoaib are very similiar, and why is it an insult to Waqar, Shoaib is a great respected bowler, and probably the best in form bowler in the world rightnow.
Both were fast, eventhough Waqar was in his teens when he started and Shoaib is in his late 20s, Shoaib is a great bowler.
They both developed the art of reverse swing.
[This message has been edited by UMAIR316 (edited July 15, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Nakhrey Wali: Hizbul, there is a difference in Warqar and others he is a **attacking bowler he just want to come in and vanish everyone. He is always in a bet to take wickets and ofcourse with this aim you are going to get punishment too sometimes because batsmen use his pace to dispatch him to the boundry. No one cares if he gives even 60 runs in 10 overs as far as he is breaking the backbone of opponent and getting 3,4,5 main wickets.
**
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Good point. Waqar throughout his career has always gunned for the batsman's stumps. I remember reading a stat about how most of his victims have been either bowled or leg before wicket which goes to show how positive he is. I believe the percentage was around 60% but I could be very wrong.
So, he's always going to go for runs but lately he's lost some of his bite. But he still remains a force on the international scene.
Another factor that has caused his "decline" is the presence of Wasim, Shoaib and Saqi all of who are very capable of take loads of wickets if someone is not putting their hand up. So, essentially if Waqar does not pick up a wicket in his first 5-6 overs, he will likely not pick up too many wickets in the whole match because either Wasim is going to send them to the cleaners or Shoaib will disturb their furniture. And if they survive all that then you will always have Saqqi plotting away the demise of the batsman. I don't think Waqar most of the times even finishes his overs these days especially if Pakistan is defending a target.
[quote]
Originally posted by UMAIR316:
*Sambi, I think Waqar of early 90s and today's Shoaib are very similiar, and why is it an insult to Waqar, Shoaib is a great respected bowler, and probably the best in form bowler in the world rightnow.
Both were fast, eventhough Waqar was in his teens when he started and Shoaib is in his late 20s, Shoaib is a great bowler.
They both developed the art of reverse swing.
*
[/quote]
Shoaib has a long way before he can even be mentioned in the same breath as Waqar much less Wasim. He might be the best in form bowler though. But as they say form is temporary but class is permanent. Even then it's not like he's playing nowadays anyways.
Have you ever noticed how Shoaib is often not called to finish off the last couple of overs? Normally it is Saqi and Wasim that combine to finish off the innings.
Have you forgotten how many matches Waqar won us with the other side needing a handful of runs in the last over with a couple of wickets left? And Waqar ran in and clean bowled all of them. He would not let the batsmen move. The only blemish on Waqar's record was the Banglore match. And since then people have been calling Waqar a has been.
Shoaib has not done that once much less as many times as Waqar. I don't mean to run down Shoaib's contributions. But everything he does seems to be a bit too hyped up. For example, I felt the man of the match and the man of the series in the Aussie series was Wasim. He kept us in the series and if it were not for him, our bowlers would not have a good total to bowl at in the last match. Even then he took a couple of good wickets to keep us in the running.
Anyways, didn't mean to go off on a rant but I feel that Shoaib has a long way to go before he is a great bowler even though he might be a very good bowler fitness and form permitting.
Yes Sambi, it is still without a doubt Shoaib has a long way to to get Waqar's standards, not just accomplishments wise but also class wise.
Shoaib is said to be expensive in his last couple overs, but now for the past couple months he has been doing alot of reverse swing at the end, he was doing it in the 12th over against Australia, imagine how much swing he would get in the last couple overs.
There was one match I remember where Shoaib single handedly won the match for Pakistan, it was in 2000 Sharjah Cup against South Africa in 2nd meeting between the 2 sides, where South Africa needed couple runs to win in the last 2 or 3 overs and he came and took 2 quick wickets in one over to win the match for pakistan.
If he can continue with this form for the next 5 or 6 years, not necessarily the same speed, he would way past any bowler, even Wasim, Waqar, Garner, Headley, Lilee, Walsh, Aaqib, Ambrose, and Marshall and others, but currently he has a long way to go.
There u go Asif_k. Your points. Your efforts paying off.
For the record, I did not intiate this discussion about Waqar's abilities(or inabilities) in this thread. It was Mr. Asif_k who did that.I just made a statement on why I thought a particular match was my favourite.
Also Asif_k, I do not care which country you belong to.... I do not need to know..
I have my opinions and I do not worship false gods like most people.. I tend to believe what I see rather than statistics...
Contrary to what u think... I am not even belligerantly patriotic... I could say the same thing for many Indian players too... you obviously have a preconcieved notion about people...
And finally... everyone has a right to an opinion... Dont you lecture me on what I should write and what I should not.
My most memorable cricket match was played between Surbiton Junior School and Sunnigdale Junior.
Surbiton were nine wickets down for 3 runs whilst chasing 52 runs with 5.1 overs remaining. The last pair scored the required runs with a four on the last ball.
I believe Waqar was an even more feared bowler in his prime than Shoaib is now. He was very fast and he had greater control of his deliveries. I vaguely remember a match when Waqar was bowling against the Windies, and they could hardly play him. Haynes was always a second late to react to his deliveries and was eventually given out lbw to waqar. He took quite a few wickets in that match. I think if waqar would have been able to sustain his fitness like wasim, he would have forged ahead than wasim in the number of wickets taken. Shoaib is not in the class of wasim or waqar, whereas the others like aquib, razzak are not that extra-ordinary.
[quote]
Originally posted by Hizbul: There u go Asif_k. Your points. Your efforts paying off.
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No matter how many points they give me, I will always be in -VE. SPOCK just gave me ONE KILO points, which he will take away very soon.
[quote] For the record, I did not intiate this discussion about Waqar's abilities(or inabilities) in this thread. It was Mr. Asif_k who did that.
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Did I ?? Check your post where you declare Waqar Younis as BEKAR YOUNIS. After that you came up with some more personal attacks on him.
[quote] I just made a statement on why I thought a particular match was my favourite.
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And just because Waqar was hit it became your fav. match. How many more you have got.
[quote]
*I have my opinions and I do not worship false gods like most people.. *
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I know, I know I still remember how you declared Srinath's Retirement was so good for Indian Cricket in a very pathetic and Insulting way. You must have been kicking yourself in the ballz after you saw the pathetic performance of our bowlers in England.
[quote] I tend to believe what I see rather than statistics...
[/quote]
[quote]
Originally posted by Brahmos: I believe Waqar was an even more feared bowler in his prime than Shoaib is now. He was very fast and he had greater control of his deliveries. I vaguely remember a match when Waqar was bowling against the Windies, and they could hardly play him. Haynes was always a second late to react to his deliveries and was eventually given out lbw to waqar. He took quite a few wickets in that match. I think if waqar would have been able to sustain his fitness like wasim, he would have forged ahead than wasim in the number of wickets taken. Shoaib is not in the class of wasim or waqar, whereas the others like aquib, razzak are not that extra-ordinary.
[/quote]
[quote]
Originally posted by Asif_k:
**
"Statistics is like a Bikini; what is revealed is suggestive, but what is concealed is vital. "
**
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Exactly what I meant !!
Most dudes like you dont see what statistics conceal - the vital part as you said.
To most people, Kapil was a great bowler because that is what the statistics say... to me he was just plain lucky to have been born in India with very few competent bowlers to share his wickets with.
Any way , that's it... I am not responding anymore. Ehsan bhai.. so long !!
[This message has been edited by Hizbul (edited July 16, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Hizbul:
**
To most people, Kapil was a great bowler because that is what the statistics say... to me he was just plain lucky to have been born in India with very few competent bowlers to share his wickets with.
**
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Anyone who follows cricket in India knows it very well that Kapil was not a GREAT BOWLER.. But He was a great cricketer, a great all rounder, good batsman, Good bowler and good Fielder. His stats dont suggest that he was a great bowler.
Who cares about what you think, You have a habit of insulting Indian Players, just because you dont like their face.
AK
[This message has been edited by Asif_k (edited July 16, 2002).]