Wuzu required for each namaz ?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

people are missing the key point here, the fact that someone does not need to do wadhu between two prayers has not much to do with their piety and should not be stated as such.

so yeah you may or may not need to do wadhu between asar and maghrib but does that mean you are really pious? and that is the reason.

u know what give the really pious man a big plate of garbanzo beans, then see the need there. piety or no piety.

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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

I guess you are qualified Pir of Dhump ... peace :)

Seriously ... that is true it is better to do wudu often rather than stretch it. But this also needs to be counterbalanced against water wastage and not doing wudu for the sake of it. Remember water is also a valuable resource.

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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

Doing fresh ablution brings more sawaab but mirch you don't have to do fresh wuzu for each namaz or nawafil unless your wuzu breaks.

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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

With due respect I am not implying what you are implying. I am saying from the begining that my purpose of this thread is to enhance my understanding not for confusing anybody.
Yes nobody could understand Quran better than Prophet (SAW) and Sahaba (RAH) but the source of Ahadees is not as strong as Quran itself , therefore I have all the rights to make sure what Ahadees are telling me does not contradict Quran.

There are no requirements mentioned anywhere in Quran for wuzu other than this verse which is very clear cut in its text and meaning . This verse does not lay down any requirements other than whenever we standup for namaz we make wuzu. It does not mentions any exceptions or ifs and buts.

Yes basis of wuzu is this verse , ahadees which mention other things to be performed , add to whatever is mandated in this verse. I have no problem or issue with that and follow those rituals.

Surah 4 verse 43 in no way contradics or complements the requiremtns for Wuzu. This verse simplay states when we are not supposed to pray and when the ghuzal should be performed and what are the exception to the ghusal ruling.

This verse (5:6) does not say or nowhere it is said in Quran that you when you are already in wuzu you do not need to perform wuzu. It clearly states that whenever you standup to pray namaz make wuzu. So any hadees which relaxes the reqirement is goining against this verse.

When you stand up for namaz you perform namaz in its entirety. Yes that manner and method of namaz comes from hadees and I have no problem in accepting those ahadees.

Again this verse is very clear cut , no ifs and buts no streching , no room for streching it and no room for any ambiguity.

The definition of mohkemat is :

  • Something with only one dimension.
  • Something sufflcient in meaning, requiring no further explanation. This verse is clearly from mohkemat it has only one dimention , that is related to when the wuzu is supposed to be performed. It is sufficient in meaning and require no further explanation.

My purpose here with this discussion is to make sure that if I pray more than one namaz with one wuzu , I am not in violation of this verse. I am not challanging or testing anybody or I am not starting a new Sect of Muslims.

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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

understood and agreed, but I go back to the initial statement that not having to do wadhu betwen prayers is not an indicator of a persons piety.

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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

Peace X2

Yes, I did think my first sentence was confirming this.

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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

Mirch @ X2
With due respect I am not implying what you are implying. I am saying from the begining that my purpose of this thread is to enhance my understanding not for confusing anybody.
Yes nobody could understand Quran better than Prophet (SAW) and Sahaba (RAH) but the source of Ahadees is not as strong as Quran itself , therefore I have all the rights to make sure what Ahadees are telling me does not contradict Quran.

psyah
The Qur’an is muttawatir and so are many hadith; to say that a TRUE hadith contradicts the Qur’an is actually saying that your interpretation of the hadith is different to your interpretation of the Qur’an and hence you are really saying that there is confusion between your reasoning ability.

psyah
when you intend to offer Salat (be in a state of wudu, where the requirements are that one must) wash the face, the hands etc ... (not in doing sequence).

Mirch
There are no requirements mentioned anywhere in Quran for wuzu other than this verse which is very clear cut in its text and meaning . This verse does not lay down any requirements other than whenever we standup for namaz we make wuzu. It does not mentions any exceptions or ifs and buts.

psyah
Bro, if you read carefully what I wrote then you would see that the Qur’an talks about the requirements of wudu, by omitting the term ‘wudu’ and it leaves open the idea that one must perform ‘wudu’ when a person stands for prayer or must simply be in a state of ‘wudu’. The ayat is clear but the omission is not clear and needs explanation. Another way to translate the verse is as so:

If you stand for prayer, ensure that you have previously washed your faces, hands etc.

This rendering makes it clear that the requirement is to be in a state of wudu rather than doing wudu for salat each time. However, your interpretation is not wrong but it is far from limiting.

psyah
4) The hadith therefore does not contradict the Qur'an what does however is the limitation we apply on the verse to mean that wudu is done expressly for offering the prayer which is not true. However, in order to offer prayer we should be in a STATE of wudu.

Mirch
This verse (5:6) does not say or nowhere it is said in Quran that you when you are already in wuzu you do not need to perform wuzu. It clearly states that whenever you standup to pray namaz make wuzu. So any hadees which relaxes the reqirement is goining against this verse.

psyah
The Qur’an omits the term ‘wudu’ so how can it say that when you are already in wudu you do not need to perform wudu’? Also, because it does not say this, it does not mean it is not implied. Qur’an also does not state when ‘wudu’ is lost. If before we say AllakhuAkbar we let out some wind does it mean we can continue praying because Qur’an does not say how wudu is lost? The Qur’an also omits the explanation of ‘wudu state’ but it is implied, The time it takes for a person who has just washed to reach the saf for prayer he/she is in a ‘wudu state’ The Qur’an does not indicate a time span between washing and standing for prayer, so again you have missed that point too. In you continued effort to say ‘whenever’ when the translation says ‘when’ again I say this is not what the Arabic word ‘izda’ means it does not mean ‘whenever’, it means ‘when’ or ‘if’. ‘Whenever’ in English means that there is no exception, but ‘when’ in English means that it could be for a specific case only.
“When you go home, put the kettle on” is very different from the sentence “Whenever you go home put the kettle on” which again is different from “If you go home, put the kettle on”.
The ayat may be definite in meaning, but remember it does not mean that the translation will always be 100% as per definite ayat.

psyah
5) And if you read even closer the requirement for washing is not for prayer at all. It is only for standing up to pray. i.e. when we stand up to pray we must be in a state of wudu. .
Mirch
When you stand up for namaz you perform namaz in its entirety. Yes that manner and method of namaz comes from hadees and I have no problem in accepting those ahadees.
psyah
You have misunderstood me, I am saying that if you are claiming the verse is saying ‘whenever’ you stand for prayer one must do wudu, what stops the person from interpreting the verse as wudu > stand for 2 sunnah fajr, renew wudu > stand for 2 fard fajr. i.e. each time we stand for prayer we need to perform wudu?
psyah
However, if this is taken to the extreme understanding that for every separate prayer where we begin to pray i.e. after every salam when we stand again we must do more washing. It defies the purpose intended in the ayat. If we can assume it means every prayer then we should not limit it to every fard either it should also extend to every nufl and sunnah attached to those faraid also.
Mirch
Again this verse is very clear cut , no ifs and buts no streching , no room for streching it and no room for any ambiguity.
psyah
I think I have demonstrated the alternate translation …
Mirch
This verse is clearly from mohkemat it has only one dimention , that is related to when the wuzu is supposed to be performed. It is sufficient in meaning and require no further explanation.

My purpose here with this discussion is to make sure that if I pray more than one namaz with one wuzu , I am not in violation of this verse. I am not challanging or testing anybody or I am not starting a new Sect of Muslims.

psyah
Yes, you can be sure that if you pray two or more salaats with the same wudu, you are indeed still compliant with the verse. To add more support to my argument is that in order to ‘lose’ wudu we must either, defecate, pass gas or urine, release semen, sleep, pass blood, vomit or loose control of our senses. No where in hadith nor the Qur’an does it say that wudu is invalidated when one prayer ends and the next one begins.

However, there is no indication that keeping the same wudu is an act of higher piety this is nonsense.

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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

Let me share with you something. I recently came across a few religious dua / azkaar books in which I read same ayahs / duas with two or more different variations. And in the book, for one version, they mentioned, "This is the 'original' version of dua / zikar." And for the 2nd version they mentioned, "So and so words were added later on to the original version of dua."

So, I always try to read the original version of any such dua because only God knows who in the history put those additional words in dua. So why should I not read the original version which was much more simpler and easy to memorize.

Among those duas / azkaars, one was the dua which you normally heard on TV after every azan.

These are the things which create confusion among the followers regarding what has been instructed by God and what is not.

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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

Peace Ambassador1

Du'a is a completely different matter. As long as the additions to the du'a are acceptable as per the aqeedah, then all embellishments are acceptable.

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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

Reading the translation of the Verse 5:6 again ... In English it is completely misleading anyway.

*When you stand for prayer wash your face, hands, etc *

This actually when taken literally means that standing for prayer is done before you wash, then you wash after you have 'stood' for prayer.

It proves that the translation is deficient in many ways.

Ya Ayyuhalldzeena Aamanu Idza Qumtum ila- sSalawaati
O People of Belief (when/if [going to]) you standup towards the prayer.

Literally word-for-word translation it is hard to decipher what is being said. Essentially the meaning of this verse is ...

Before you stand to pray have wudu done. Rather than before you stand to pray do wudu each time.

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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

Please don’t think that my effort to understand Quran and Hadees is limited to reading the English and Urdu translations.
With the toufeeq of Allah I have put time , effort and energy to understand the intricacies of Arabic Grammar. I continuously strive to increase my vocabulary of Quranic words and to learn the root and meaning of each Arabic word used in Quran.
I have put effort to read and understand various Tafaseer by various Ulema’s. All the Ulema’s and Quran itself tell you to critically evaluate what you read and hear and I just doing that. This verse and the prevalent practice among Muslims seem to me very contradictory.
Now look at this Holly Ayat again.

يها الذين](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=الذين) امنوا](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=امنوا) اذا](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=اذا) قمتم](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=قمتم) الي](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=الي) الصلاة](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=الصلاة) فاغسلوا](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=فاغسلوا) وجوهكم](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=وجوهكم) وايديكم](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=وايديكم) الي](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=الي) المرافق](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=المرافق) وامسحوا](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=وامسحوا) برؤوسكم](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=برؤوسكم) وارجلكم](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=وارجلكم) الي](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=الي) الكعبين](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=الكعبين) وان](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=وان) كنتم](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=كنتم) جنبا](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=جنبا)
The easy literal translation of this verse will be :
O those who believe whenever you stand up for Salat , wash your faces, and your hands up to your elbows, then touch your heads and your feet up to your ankles.
Th logic dictates that when you are completely physically fit and have all four perfect limbs you would be in some kind of state from which you will have to stand up to go and make wuzu to pray Namaz , that is what Quran is saying , saying not implying , saying in clear terms. (Yes there are exceptions we are not talking about them at this point.)
Yes I do not see the word Wuzu in this verse that is fine with me , I will take it that our Holly Prophet (SAW) named this act of purifying yourself before Sala as wuzu or wudu and it is a Islamic term .
This verse does not automatically tell you, implies or makes you assume that if you were not in the state of wudu previously only then you perform the wudu.
I know many people will face the dilemma that if we accept the easy and literal translation of this verse then it will invalidate many ahadees from many books of ahadees which are as cast in stone for many Muslims as the Quran is.
The mere fact that all the Jamaul ahadees examined the ahadees and rejected hundreds of thousands of ahadees and only chose to record the ones that passed their self prescribed tests tells me that ahadees are and will always be subject to examination . All those tests were missing the key element of judging a hadees , the common logic, if the hadees passed their tests they did not care if the hadees was against common logic. The ahadees which go against this simple and beautifully verse , to me, do not pass the common logic test, period.
If anyone does not agree with me I have no qualms about it . Allah knows the best. I am just trying to use the knowledge and wisdom he has bestowed upon me and if someone agrees to my line of reasoning and start performing wuzu before every namaz then I pray to Allah that he add the sawab of it to my tosha a akhrat. Ameen. Suma Ameen.

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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

Hi psyah,

Just recalled that they read a specific durood after every azan and not dua. So, they had two different versions of that durood. Meaning, that durood was created by humans. And who wrote durood taaj, lakhi and tanjina and all those types of duroods are written by whom?

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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

Peace Mirch bhai

Again I will ask you questions in piecemeal to see where I have misunderstood you or perhaps you have misunderstood me.

I disagree with your translation … the word is not “whenever” that is your interpolation.

The word is ‘izda’ by itself it takes the meaning ‘then’ it does not take the meaning ‘whenever’. It can take the meaning ‘when’ but it is still not the same as the English ‘when’ or the urdu ‘jab’.

You say that there is a contradiction in hadith with regards to this specific ayat. I say there is no contradiction. That is too strong a word because it requires exhaustive proof to be a CONTRADICTION according to the Rules of Logic. You are actually saying that it is counter-intuitive because to be a contradiction there is no room for argument. Here there clearly is. In addition to learning Arabic grammar please learn logic. If you do learn Arabic grammar then please note that I am not wrong with the fact that it is commonplace Qur’anic Arabic to omit concepts.

a) Logic dictates that omission of a concept is not negation of that concept … Do you agree yes or no?

b) Do you agree that a contradiction is present when it is impossibe one thing negates the other? Yes or No?

c) Have you determined that the entity doing the alleged negating is in fact negating? If so, then present your argument

d) You say that you have spoken to Ulema. If so what did they say?

e) You say that this ayat is not Mutashabiha. How do you know? If so, what does it imply? Does it mean that the meaning can not be misunderstood? Or does it mean something else, please explain your position on the type of ayat you say this is.

f) Do you agree that even if something is clear i.e. literal, it can still be misunderstood when translating the term is involved? Yes or No.

g) Do you agree that the ayat is telling us to wash before we stand for prayer? If so, how long before a prayer can the washing be done? Please cite evidence.

h) Do you agree that another rendering of the ayat can be “Prior to standing for prayer make sure you have done wudu” Yes or no? If yes, then please note that this is not a repeating entity the wudu is a continuous one.

i) Don’t drink when you drive - implies don’t drink before or during your driving. Just moving the words drink and drive around we get, Don’t drive when you drink - implies don’t drive during drinking, nor after you have drunk. We have not changed the structure of the sentence at all, but we have put certain sequential verbs in a different order and the meaning becomes ASSUMED. The same is being said in this verse however, you are not assuming the meaning, but relying on flimsy literalism.

The phrase is To pray wash - implies in order to pray you need to have washed some time before it. It does not say To pray wash everytime however, that meaning can be taken but not limited to it. It is therefore jaiz to wash before every prayer but not restricted to it.

I need you to acknowledge that your understanding has reduced wudu to an action that is done rather than a state that we are in. You therefore fall into the erroneous position of reading and re-reading the ayat as “whenever you stand for prayer wash etc” If you have studied Arabic grammar you will realise that the word “izda” has an effect on the tense especially when the sentence is in future tense, because the word is in the past tense in its natural state. It means that the following words are in continuous condition.

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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

To add support to my argument inshaAllah I will produce an alogrithm of this instruction. Algorithms are perfect logical constructs and the benefits in them are that with a glance you can spot the errors. Please bear with me.

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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

Let us assume I do not know logic. I do not know any other language except Arabic , I have not heard or read the ahadees you and others are quoting . I am reading Quran which Allah says he has made easy for us to understand. Allah does not say that you need ahadees and you have to be master of Uloom ul Quran and master of logic to understand Quran rather he says he has made it easy for us to understand and read. Only a logician will work hard to make it difficult for himself to understand this easy quran.
I am just a simple Muslim and know how to read Quran and know what it is telling me. In this case for me this verse is telling me that whenever I stand up to pray my obligatory prayer I should wash my face, wash my hand , touch up my head and my feet.
Since Alhumdulillah I am not sick , I am not missing some limbs , I can find enough water I will perform these acts of purity Allah has prescribed , before each obligatory prayer.
Mind you it is ritual purity , it is not physical purity and Alhumdulillah Allah has made it easy to achieve this ritual purity ,that is why it is important that it should be performed every time anybody stands up for obligatory prayers. Allah has made this ritual purity the part of namaz . If you want to take a liberty with the help of hadees , logic , linguistic maneuvers you are free to do so , but I am not going to take that liberty.

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Re: Wuzu required for each namaz ?

Peace Mirch bhai

It is good that you are at least saying we "are free to do so". Just some more important notes to make inshaAllah.

Surah Al-Qamar repeated verse 17, 22, 32, 40

"And indeed We have made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember, then is there anyone who will remember?"

It is from hadith and ulema that you get this translation. If you were to just read Arabic ... The Qur'an uses the word "lil Dzikri" which means "to recall". The meaning in the translation "easy to understand" is actually an interpolation that if something is easy to remember it is easy to understand.

The Qur'an has been made to easy to memorize and recite accordingly. It is not to say that the WHOLE Qur'an is easy to understand. Please remember this point.

Talking about logic:

First of all because from hadith it is clear that we have a choice to renew wudu or to continue in the same wudu, logically, that is, there is no exception being prescribed, it is called a choice this is OR in logical terms.

Before we stand to pray we do wudu or continue in to prayer if our wudu is not invalidated

The italics underline section is omitted from the Qur'an but as determined logically an omission from an argument does not mandate negation of that argument.

If however, it was an exception such as ...

Before we stand to pray we do wudu, except when our previous wudu is not invalidated.

then this means logically that one cannot do wudu if the previous wudu is not invalidated. This exception is NOT being made by hadith nor by us.

However, if we write your understanding which is the AND version ...

Before we stand to pray we (always) do wudu * and we do wudu (for prayer) if it has become invalidated*

There is an inherent problem here too. The two sentences make it seem that the emergence of the new prayer time makes the wudu invalid. Then it becomes a logical error with the AND in place becomes superfluous there is no point saying we do wudu when it becomes invalid twice in one argument. That is inefficiency in discourse. Or if we do wudu because we went to the toilet then 2 minutes later after wudu the time for prayer becomes upon us do we then do wudu again? Because this time the intent of the wudu would be for salat rather than renewing wudu? It presents a common sense breach that people are going to be doing possibly two wudu's after one another in this potential situation.

Out of the three versions the first one is the logical one to follow, because despite it's silence it is still consistent with common sense and logic. Now I am no master in logic ... I have simply done some reading up, is that too much to ask? Aren't we supposed to seek knowledge and understanding in the best way?

You still have not mentioned which 'alim has told you that your understanding is correct.

Anyway I think it is not important to bring that algorithm now, but if you wish I can still do this. The thread you opened was a question but you insist on your own answer then so be it, but it was a non-starter to ask a question from us when you were never prepared to accept a view that might go against your own.