Since you brought up the BBC.
BBC Caught In Mass Public Deception With Iran Propaganda
LOL
If you want a serious discussion, please back up your claims.
Provide proofs that Ahmedinejad “stole and election”.
Provide proofs that Ahmedinejad denied the holocaust.
Thanks.
Not only Ahmadinejad, none of the leader in South Asia or Muslim world have not done anything to improve the living standards on their people, so are they psycho?
Tehran's having mosques or no mosques?? what it have to do with the current topic, next time you may come up with a comment/objection that Makkah and Madina does not have a single church!!!
I am not supporter of Any one, but i don't follow west blindly, i don't call people psycho because west hates them...
So because he is ok with the slaughter of the people of parachinar, thats why no west is after him...
Now you are contradicting yourself, first you say he don't like or treat sunnies well and now you are relating him to radical Al-qaida.. this give the hint that how you blame all the bad things on a guy you don't like...
No you clown, I stated that the only reason you like Ahmadinejad is because he supposedly stands up to the West.
I stated might as well support al-Qaeda in your case because they also stand up to the West. After all, there were plenty of Pakistanis who were cheering when 9/11 happened, and only a daft idiot would argue otherwise. You would rather be a slave to Wahabis, that's for sure.
What do Mullahs have to do with this topic? What does the Sunni-Shia conflict have to do with this topic? Do you have any arguments at all? Come again?
Please tell me your esteemed news sources from where you digress news information?
You mentioned CNN and Fox as almost a knee jerk reaction to anyone who disagrees with you.
When that angle of attack failed miserably, you disparage BBC.
Here read these links:
Ahmedinijad stealing an election
How Ahmadinejad Stole an Election | Iranian.com
This is Iranian News Site reporting on Ahmedinijad stealing the election.
How Ahmadinejad Stole an Election | Iranian.com
This is a Russian Newspaper which reports on Ahmedinijad’s Holocaust denial
Ahmadinejad proud of Holocaust denial speech | Top Russian news and analysis online | ‘RIA Novosti’ newswire
So you cannot claim western bias.
I am really looking forward as how you will wiggle yourself out of this one or will you have enough guts and humility to say that you were wrong.
Have a nice day. 
So you’re unable to condemn the cartoon riots yet you have no problem condemning the protesters who want freedom.
Since you’re in Germany, are you going to support al-Qaeda bombing Oktoberfest since you hate everything about the West? 
I read your sources. No proofs but baseless assumptions. Maybe you can accept something like this as as proof, but I certaintly can’t. I need solid proofs such as a recounting of votes. Which the Ayatollah has offered to Mousavi, but he didn’t accept the offer and rather just kept telling his followers to go to the streets and protest.
Why not listen to the man himself talking about the Holocaust.
So just because he wants that there should be more research on the holocaust he’s a holocaust denier, yeah? LOL
Every politician who states facts about Israel ends up being portrayed as a maniac in the media for some reason.
Before you believe the media, atleast listen to the man himself please. In the end the truth will stand out.
Have a nice day too.
Yeah go on making up stuff. LOL Did I ever say I have something against the western society ( Which I am a part of myself) or the western way of life?
I’m loyal to my country btw. Which happens to be Germany. LOL
Once again, you don’t even have a single argument to be taking place in this discussion. Are you a troll?
Re: World powers turn up heat on Iran
Ahmedinejad won the election. Western analysts are on their usual whine. Nothing new there. Democracy is a word best suited to be used for and by US/UK/EU only for whom they approve of. Remember Hamas won the elections in Palestine too? :)
Iran has the right to explore and develop nuclear energy.
Re: World powers turn up heat on Iran
Why doesn't the world pressure Israel to reveal its nature of nukes it holds? IAEA has never been granted permission to inspect Dimona plant. Why the double-standards? What was the last time Iran, as a nation, attacked a people militarily?
Israel does it everyday in the region, Lebanon, Occupied Palestine, Iraq, Syria, you name it...Israel is the aggressor and should be under pressure by the "world".
Re: World powers turn up heat on Iran
Mercenary- it is always best to source any news from a 3rd party, that is most likely a non-stakeholder specially in political matters such as the one of Iran. I see that you are mainly backing your views by referencing sites built and ran by overseas Iranians who all lost out in one way or another after the fall of Shah and are extremely hostile to the revoloutionary regime. Its similar to many Baathist Arabs who are hating the process of people empowerment that is taking place in Iraq at the moment because they see power and wealth as their monopoly only. They now consider Saddam an Arab hero, a martyr, and seem to have gone as far as supporting Al Qaeda elements to destablise Iraq, a country that is very fragile at the moment anyway.
BBC/CNN and likes unfortunately have taken a very biased approach towards Iran ever since the revoloution. The simple reason being that Iran will not give the Western powers unconditional welcome to step in and shape and enhance their own Western geopolitical interests in the Middle East. Thus, the same popular and powerful media machinery around the world that used to glorify the Shah to no end all of a sudden turned anti-Iranian govt after the Shah. However there are some sources that do good neutral reporting. A clear benchmark to judge a media outlet that is free from the clutches of the Zionist/Imperialist- one which is ready to expose Israel and its crimes.
No you clown, I stated that the only reason you like Ahmadinejad is because he supposedly stands up to the West.
I stated might as well support al-Qaeda in your case because they also stand up to the West. After all, there were plenty of Pakistanis who were cheering when 9/11 happened, and only a daft idiot would argue otherwise. You would rather be a slave to Wahabis, that's for sure.
I guess never ever in ur life you have ever had a decent discussion and that is without calling names, may be this is how you were brought up, all credit goes to ur parents and family for ur great skills
Now in ur post you had no argument which can say that this is the reason ahmedinijaad is a bad guy, only few sunni-shia things and with ur intellect u r linking them with al-Qaeda, acutally this kind of argument comes from the guy who believes what ever western media feeds in their brain..
If you have any thing good against him than talk about it, please don't use abusive language as no body here have background you came from...
Re: World powers turn up heat on Iran
^A friend of mine was in Tehran just after the election, when all the hyped unrest was taking place on the streets of affluent Northern subarbs of Tehran. He was surprised by my persistent questioning about Ahmedinejad being on the wrong side of things in the eyes of the public and told me that in the streets of Tehran you will find written on the walls "FAQAT NEJAT", i.e. only Ahmedinejad, who was also the popular mayor of the same city before becoming the president of the country. I probably had been watching too much TV!
How conviniently the biased media ignores 100,000 plus crowd that Ahmedinejad persistently pulls during his speeches, or a massive amount of devoutees that attend the Friday prayers or Thursday night Dua e Kumyal that bring the traffic to standstill in the same city. All the aspects of the Iranian society that do not fit the picture they want to project are simply ignored by the media yet they go out of their way and even do not mind putting their correspondents in danger to air and highlight every bit of details about "hundereds of protestors" that come out chanting slogans against the government. Wasnt democracy, that West seem to hold so dear, about the view of the majority?
Re: World powers turn up heat on Iran
Part III of the article from the Asia Times:
Asia Times Online :: Middle East News, Iraq, Iran current affairs
I have an Iranian friend who was in Iran just after the Presidential elections. He travelled extensively, from Iran to Hamedan to Sheraz and Esfehan, and did not see anywhere these 100,000s of protestors shown by Western media.
He was personally anti-Ahmedenjad but even he admitted that the West was signifcantly overplaying the hype.
Secondly, for those individuals criticising Iran for its discriminations against Sunnis, you're right. There is discrmination. Shia Islam is the official religion, and not a single Sunni mosque exists in Tehran. This is in no way detracts from the fact that the Iranian nation is something we can learn a lot from both in terms of unity and strength.
At the critical juncture that Iran is in, where its existence is threatened from numerous sides, it needs a strong, authoritarian government in place. Unchecked democracy is often exploited by foreign influences (as has happened numerous times in Pakistan).
I suggest people pull their head out of BBC's arse and look at Iran from an Iranian perspective and not some imported left-wing foreign construct...
Mercenary- it is always best to source any news from a 3rd party, that is most likely a non-stakeholder specially in political matters such as the one of Iran. I see that you are mainly backing your views by referencing sites built and ran by overseas Iranians who all lost out in one way or another after the fall of Shah and are extremely hostile to the revoloutionary regime. Its similar to many Baathist Arabs who are hating the process of people empowerment that is taking place in Iraq at the moment because they see power and wealth as their monopoly only. They now consider Saddam an Arab hero, a martyr, and seem to have gone as far as supporting Al Qaeda elements to destablise Iraq, a country that is very fragile at the moment anyway.
Sir thanks for an educated reply.
I did quote a 3rd party source, a Russian Newspaper in which the Russian govt condemned Ahmedinijad's denial of the holocaust.
What people like Ahmedinijad will never understand is that acknowledging Jewish suffering is in no way decremental to Palestinian suffering.
BBC/CNN and likes unfortunately have taken a very biased approach towards Iran ever since the revoloution. The simple reason being that Iran will not give the Western powers unconditional welcome to step in and shape and enhance their own Western geopolitical interests in the Middle East. Thus, the same popular and powerful media machinery around the world that used to glorify the Shah to no end all of a sudden turned anti-Iranian govt after the Shah. However there are some sources that do good neutral reporting. A clear benchmark to judge a media outlet that is free from the clutches of the Zionist/Imperialist- one which is ready to expose Israel and its crimes.
What you say is true. I am however fearful that Iran being run by religious ideologues adds a dangerous element to the game that Iran is playing. Namely, trying to become the most powerful nation in the Islamic world.
They are doing this by funding movements in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Egypt, Gulf States, etc.
I dont mind secular states becoming powerful like Turkey, Indonesia but nations like Iran and Saudi Arabia are dangerous because they are totally linked with a narrow ideology.
Re: World powers turn up heat on Iran
^You are welcome brother. I do not think Ahmedinejad denies the event of Holocaust altogether. In my view, he has carefully picked on this issue as it exposes the vulnerable side of the West in many ways. Just like the West likes to jump on the weaknesses of the others to prove themselves better he has picked on the issue of Holocaust. Tit for tat i suppose.
You are right, Iran indeed supports many momvements around the Muslim world and does so proudly and in most cases publically. I think there is nothing wrong with it as long as these movements are popular and have the mandate of the local populace. What do you think?
I disagree that the goal of Iran is to lead the Muslim world. They actually played that role before the Islamic revoloution when the fearsome Shah used to police the Arabs on the behalf of the USA. It is actually United States that plays the Arab V Persian or Shia V Sunni card to further push the Arab kingdoms into sumbmission.
I dont mind secular states becoming powerful like Turkey, Indonesia but nations like Iran and Saudi Arabia are dangerous because they are totally linked with a narrow ideology.
You don't think Turkey's governing ideology is narrow also?
Turkey takes secularism to a militant level. They deny their people the same way Iran denies their people freedom.
The majority of Turkey's population is Muslim - if that majority wants an Islamic state through democratic means, the military will step in and stop that from happening. In essence, there is a form of dictatorship in Turkey also.
When people are BY LAW forbidden to cover their hair in government buildings you have some serious problems going on - particularly when, unlike the West, Islam and *hijab *are a deep part of Turkey's history and cultural development over the past 1400 years.
No my friend: any regime that deprives its people from basic freedom should not be encouraged. You may condemn overly theocratic states - in the same breath, you should also condemn overly secular states.
As for Iran spreading mischief in surrounding countries, can you tell me one country which doesn't seek to have influence with its neighbours? Be that Saudi, Iran, Turkey, Israel, Pakistan the US, India... all countries have an obsession with ensuring they have influence in their neighbouring states.
Hardly a trait unique to a theocracy.
You don't think Turkey's governing ideology is narrow also?
Turkey takes secularism to a militant level. They deny their people the same way Iran denies their people freedom.
The majority of Turkey's population is Muslim - if that majority wants an Islamic state through democratic means, the military will step in and stop that from happening. In essence, there is a form of dictatorship in Turkey also.
When people are BY LAW forbidden to cover their hair in government buildings you have some serious problems going on - particularly when, unlike the West, Islam and *hijab *are a deep part of Turkey's history and cultural development over the past 1400 years.
No my friend: any regime that deprives its people from basic freedom should not be encouraged. You may condemn overly theocratic states - in the same breath, you should also condemn overly secular states. ** As for Iran spreading mischief in surrounding countries, can you tell me one country which doesn't seek to have influence with its neighbours? Be that Saudi, Iran, Turkey, Israel, Pakistan the US, India... all countries have an obsession with ensuring they have influence in their neighbouring states.
Hardly a trait unique to a theocracy.**
Actually no. The country never makes these interventionist decision. To put it simply, if we see the state in its naked sense only a handful of individuals are making such decisions. Not "countries".
Actually no. The country never makes these interventionist decision. To put it simply, if we see the state in its naked sense only a handful of individuals are making such decisions. Not "countries".
What a superfluous and irrelevant argument - are you arguing just for the sake of arguing?
Two things:
Firstly, if you are correct, why don't we stop referring to nation states as 'nation states' and in fact refer to them as 'the handful of individuals in charge of XYZ-country who are making its decisions'? When we say "Iran did this" or "Pakistan did that" of course we do not refer to every single individual in either of the two countries: we mean that the nation did a certain something. The fact that only a few individuals were responsible for that is irrevelant.
And secondly, you are wrong. Pan-humanism is not one of the defining traits of human beings: we identify with our tribe first and foremost (be that a religious, cultural, linguistic, nationalistic etc definition) - we want what is best for them. As a Pakistani, I want Pakistan to have influence over Afghanistan and India simply in order to assure our own safety.
By that narrative, the Iranian people want themselves to survive and continue existing as a nation: if that means having interventionist policies in neighbouring countries, so be it.
The Israeli support for the recent onslaught on Gaza remained at a consistent 90% and above. A couple of years ago, Turkish armed forces invaded the North of Iraq with majority public support to fight Seperatist Kurds.
You see the best in people - I see reality. If one has to intervene in one's neighbours affairs to guarantee security for one's country, public support for that will always be high.
Re: World powers turn up heat on Iran
Well good news guys…looks like the talks are going well
^^ he stole an election, he denies the holocaust, brutally cracked down on innocent protestors....
these may be hallmarks of great character traits to you...but not to me
f** off
Stories of the Holocaust were a myth initially created by the Allies of World War II as part of a grander plot intended to enable the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine, and now to garner continuing support for the state of Israel. Since World War 2, Jews have used the holocaust as a means of monetary gain, not only as a means of gaining reparations from West Germany, but to release countless books and movies.
The figure of 5 to 7 million Jewish deaths is a gross exaggeration, and the actual number is an order of magnitude lower. If you wanna group death tolls according to religion, what about the 25-30 million christians who lost their lives fighting for their countries ?
Gas chambers, where allegedly million of Jews were murdered have never been discovered. The holocaust has very little physical evidence besides eyewitness accounts, Survivor testimonies are filled with errors and inconsistencies, and are thus unreliable.
The Nazis had no official policy or intention of exterminating Jews. There's no evidence to suggest Nazis specifically targeted Jews. The German government has kept extensive and detailed records of all it policies, yet not a single nazi document has ever been found which substantiates or even refers to an extermination program or policy targeting Jews. During world war millions of people were murdered. People of all religions, they weren't specifically targeted cos of there religion, but were executed because they were perceived as the 'enemy'.
Nazis didn't specifically target Jews, they killed anyone who was seen as a 'threat' to Nazi supremacy. There was extermination of dissident peoples in the mountains of Croatia,the Ustashi and their killings of Croatian Orthodox peoples. Millions of Polish, Russians etc... were killed. Russians were considered subhuman by the Nazis for example.
The Nazi treatment of Jews was no different from what the Allies did to their enemies in World War II. It's clear that the holocaust has become a political tool and a weapon to be used in many circumstances against people that disagree with the actions of Israel and the complicity of the American government.