Re: Why laws against polygamy??
You win? Charlie Sheen is on GS?!
Anyway my point is that our notion of monogamy is probably inspired by religion, which called for every man to have one wife. Prior to that powerful men had multiple wives. It was common.
On a side note, I find it ironic that you’re an atheist arguing against polygamy given that polygamy was eradicated exactly *because *of the spread of religion.
Re: Why laws against polygamy??
Because I expect human beings to be somewhat more intelligent than other animals. Aren’t they meant to be more intelligent and emotional beings? Even if we are meant to be polygamous, our brains do not accept the idea. No matter what you say, we cannot have a working polygamous system in the world. It’s chaotic to say the least unless one gender decides to compromise, which religions decided had to be women.
Monogamy was never inspired by religion. The truth is monogamy makes things a lot simpler. By the way, polygamy doesn’t have to imply multiple marriages. People are polygamous with or without marriage. Marriage is a religious institution not polygamy.
P.S. I do not like Charlie Sheen 
Re: Why laws against polygamy??
yeah.. warren jeffs case was quite popular. but every count he was charged with was for child molestation/child abuse/rape/sexual abuse. not a single charge for polygamy. there are a lot of polygamists living happily in the US, especially amongst the fundamentalist mormons in utah.
Re: Why laws against polygamy??
We don’t accept polygamy because of cultural reasons. That’s my point. I’m a part of this culture so polygamy seems foreign to me but that’s because I’ve been raised in a monogamous culture. Given that we are smart, rational beings, this idea should not be hard to grasp.
I didn’t say monogamy was inspired by religion, but the widespread prevalence of cultures that believe in monogamy is the cause of its dominance. And polygamy usually applies only to very rich or powerful men. Normal guys couldn’t afford polygamy (yes I meant to say afford 
). But in today’s day and age, Bill Gates or Warren Buffet can easily afford multiple wives but they won’t, nor will society deem it acceptable, because of our culture. Whereas two hundred years ago, before globalization, the emperor of China had hundreds of concubines.
And it’s multiple women per men because that makes sense in terms of propagation of the species. It’s not sexist, it’s practical. If that’s a problem then your beef is with mother nature, or God, whatever you happen to believe in. And by “you” I mean anyone in general, so don’t take this as offense.
Re: Why laws against polygamy??
yes...thats what i want to know......separation of church and state.......no harm to anybody.......then why would it be a problem????? how is it different......then lets say... a gay marriage?? (difference as in being 'abnormal')..
and yes..i am talking about consenting adults......and i am not talking in islamic context.........the same logic that legalizes gay marriage.......should also allow all the sorts of marriages you talk about...... brother sister/uncle-niece etc etc.......if its consenting adults......why not??
answered it when i said, "I suppose the collective voice of people does and should matter in a democracy."
at least in the US, people are not ready to accept polygamy..so as long as people don't accept it, you won't see it getting legal blessings. and a nation's people are not bound by commitment to secularism (even if it's government is)...they can support what they like, even if it is inspired by their religious beliefs....many are not ready to accept gay marriages and obviously that is why you are seeing thehot debate on it.
Re: Why laws against polygamy??
Theorist, I have to call you out on this one! Why do you expect human beings to be more “rational” (subjective as this word is) than other animals? What makes you say monogamy wasn’t inspired by religion? What you’re saying doesn’t really gel well with my understanding of a world without God.
Re: Why laws against polygamy??
Yeah, never said polygamy wasn’t cultural or religious. Cultures change with time as societies grow. A monogamous culture seems to be a more stable one. Do you agree with that?
Right. We agree on that too. I never brought up this point. My point was evolutionary evidence is not going to work with most muslims since they don’t believe in it. The above is irrelevant.
Aren’t we beyond that? We aren’t living in caves anymore. We have over populated the earth actually.
Re: Why laws against polygamy??
Theorist, I have to call you out on this one! Why do you expect human beings to be more *"rational" *(subjective as this word is) than other animals? What makes you say monogamy wasn't inspired by religion? What you're saying doesn't really gel well with my understanding of a world without God.
Because we are. Are you seriously asking me that question? Are we no different than other animals? Look around you, we are the intelligent life on this planet. We have taken over the planet and killed more resources with our advancement and intelligence.
Monogamy wasn't inspired by religion because monogamy is a sexual relationship, monogamous marriage is a religious and social phenomenon. Old Mesopotamian and Assyrian texts clearly show that they practiced monogamy. The only way a man could take a second wife was if she couldn't reproduce an offspring or if the wife herself gave her husband a concubine. Monogamy has been a norm all throughout history only because it's a more stable system and the fact that we as intelligent beings have been able to recognize the flaws of polygamy.
Re: Why laws against polygamy??
Women would make such rules. After all if you believe in evolution, man evolved from animals. And no animal gets married. It is simply a social construct created by religion to gain power over the masses. In nature Polygamy is the normal order of things.
Re: Why laws against polygamy??
Sure monogamy works, but that doesn’t mean polygamy for the few who can afford it can’t coexist within a monogamous culture. That was my original point. The only reason polygamy is outlawed is because of cultural (religious) reasons. It has nothing to do with efficiency, which you’re assuming.
Yes but Muslims believe in polygamy so they’re on my side, you’re the one who doesn’t, and since you do believe in science, I think using evolutionary biology is perfectly fine in this case; and biological evidence suggests that polygamy is the norm. And once again, even with a monogamous culture, **polygamy for the few **still existed for thousands of years. Maybe not as multiple marriages but in the form of concubines and mistresses.
And lastly, no we are not beyond that. Social constructs may change from decade to decade, or from century to century, but our biological preferences take thousands of years to change.
Having said all that, I don’t think polygamy should be legal but we’re certainly defying our instincts when we go monogamous.
Re: Why laws against polygamy??
Sure monogamy works, but that doesn't mean polygamy for the few who can afford it can't coexist within a monogamous culture. That was my original point. The only reason polygamy is outlawed is because of cultural (religious) reasons.** It has nothing to do with efficiency, which you're assuming.**
It's not an assumption. It's been tried since the dawn of time and is the only efficient enough system that works for mankind. Do care to show me a formal study case where this has been proven false. Polygamy is outlawed for the same reason other crimes are outlawed, it hurts people EMOTIONALLY and leads to physical violence in many cases.
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Yes but** Muslims believe in polygamy so they're on my side**, you're the one who doesn't, and since you do believe in science, I think using evolutionary biology is perfectly fine in this case; and biological evidence suggests that polygamy is the norm. And once again, even with a monogamous culture, **polygamy for the few **still existed for thousands of years. Maybe not as multiple marriages but in the form of concubines and mistresses.
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What does believing in polygamy mean anyway? I believe we are polygamous by nature too. Not only that we are also violent by nature yet violence is not acceptable in any society for it to function properly and prosper, why should polygamy be treated any differently? Polygamy hurts people as much as physical violence does. Emotional health of human beings is just as important.
[QUOTE]
And lastly, no we are not beyond that. Social constructs may change from decade to decade, or from century to century, but our biological preferences take thousands of years to change.
Having said all that, I don't think polygamy should be legal but** we're certainly defying our instincts** when we go monogamous.
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We defy nature in many ways, polygamy is just one example. And let's not forget, polygamy tends to play in men's favor more than women simply because we are the weaker sex and easily controlled. So if we legalize it, women are likely to become victims of it more than men.
Re: Why laws against polygamy??
It's not an assumption. It's been tried since the dawn of time and is the only efficient enough system that works for mankind. Do care to show me a formal study case where this has been proven false. Polygamy is outlawed for the same reason other crimes are outlawed, it hurts people EMOTIONALLY and leads to physical violence in many cases.
Look at the reasons why polygamy was outlawed around the world. They're usually political in nature.
Tried since the dawn of time? Really? The time that societies have been dominantly monogamous is a blip on the history of the human race. The only efficiency that nature cares about is the propagation of the race, i.e. the strongest genes survive. Polygamy serves this best. The benefit of monogamy is that it reduces sexual competition among males. That said, I don't understand why it's illegal. The Mormons in America basically gave up their right to practice polygamy in exchange for becoming a state.
What does believing in polygamy mean anyway? I believe we are polygamous by nature too. Not only that we are also violent by nature yet violence is not acceptable in any society for it to function properly and prosper, why should polygamy be treated any differently? Polygamy hurts people as much as physical violence does. Emotional health of human beings is just as important.
It means that you don't view polygamy is something that's morally wrong. I should add that I think polygamy is strange but I recognize that I think that way, probably because I've been raised in a monogamous society. You're only assuming that polygamy hurts people. You and I think that it would (hurt people) because, again, polygamy is a foreign concept to us. Again, my point is that people willingly engaged in polygamy, and some still do, so how do we know it's harmful?
It was made illegal for political and religious reasons. There was no greater motive except, perhaps, for reducing competition between males.
We defy nature in many ways, polygamy is just one example. And let's not forget, polygamy tends to play in men's favor more than women simply because we are the weaker sex and easily controlled. So if we legalize it, women are likely to become victims of it more than men.
Once again, we defy polygamy for reasons that have no real moral or logical basis. It favours men because of nature, so what? That's a moot point.
Re: Why laws against polygamy??
The BBC asian Netwrk broad cast this. Uk listeners will be able to access it until today 6pm I believe.
Re: Why laws against polygamy??
such as?
Immoral is such a relative term. Polygamy DOES hurt people. It’s not an assumption mann.. How many polygamous marriages have you seen that have worked out? Not many. I know at least 5 families. Children are abused, women have no say in most matters. Men do whatever the hell they want. The system only benefits men and to be honest, I am not okay with that. Have you seen those UTAH Mormons and the sister wives of Kody Brown in Oklahoma? They are NAIVE! They have no clue about life outside of their little town and church. You may be able to convince such women to enter in a polygamous marriage but try a city chick…
Do explain what political reasons. Polygamy was outlawed for the same reason as other crimes were outlawed. It’s hurtful. Let me clarify one thing again, Polygamous MARRIAGE Is illegal, polygamy is not! So go ahead and f*** the s*** out of other women, just don’t marry em.. See how the love of your life feel about it.
Seriously? 
It’s by far the most important point! Who are you going to have polygamous relationship with? Women…it’s one thing that you don’t care about how your partner feels.. But then that’s why men are said to think with their d****. 
Re: Why laws against polygamy??
Ok I feel like we're not getting anywhere. I agree that polygamy is usually only practiced in countries where woman have no rights but it was also practiced in countries like America before the government decided to outlaw it. There are libertarians in America who still think that the government has no right to decide whether people can enter into a polygamous marriage or not.
That's fair about me not personally knowing any polygamous people. I feel like only the really backwards minded people would practice polygamy nowadays because it's illegal so basing the effects of polygamy based on the people who practice it today is a bit skewed, no?
The creation of the state of Utah in exchange for giving up the right to practice polygamy.
In your last paragraph you again assume that polygamy is harmful; if you're basing this on the people who practice it today then yes, most of them probably are abused. *However, I wonder if we consider polygamy to be hurtful emotionally because it actually is, or because we've been raised in a monogamous society? *
I agree with you on the benefits of monogamy and I'm not polygamous, I can only handle one woman thank you very much :p.
I'm just questioning whether polygamy was truly harmful, which I can't say for a certainty that it was. I don't think we're going to convince each other but it doesn't really matter because polygamy is not going to make a comeback. I'll just ask that you consider the bolded part above. I'm not asking that you reply, because the question above is the one that prompted my entry into this discussion and I don't know the answer either.
Re: Why laws against polygamy??
^Fair enough.
I stand by my statement, polygamy is hurtful hence made illegal. 