Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
Ravage, Ive stated this so many times, this was not done on Govt expenses, so whats the problem then? Musharraf on the other hand was doing everything, learjets, tours, book promotion and all on Govt expenses. I see no problem if someone staying in anywhere he she wants from their OWN damn expenses. What was done in the 90s was wrong and unjustified, BUT thats not what we are discussing here.
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
So if Musharraf amasses his wealth over these 8 years and lives in luxury in that hotel after running off with it, would you be jim dandy with it?
wrong and "unjustified" is such an understatement. What difference does it make if Musharraf billed the govt while in power, and this lot hoarded the govt money away while in power and are using it now (not that they werent lavish while in power too)
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
So if Musharraf amasses his wealth over these 8 years and lives in luxury in that hotel after running off with it, would you be jim dandy with it?
Yes, I see no problem with that, but then again, Mushy was in the army, the first question that would pop up would be where did he get all the money from? Nawaz and Benazir on the other hand were involved in money laundering, but I am sure with their industries and lands they could easily afford to stay in lavish hotels.
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wrong and "unjustified" is such an understatement. What difference does it make if Musharraf billed the govt while in power, and this lot hoarded the govt money away while in power and are using it now (not that they werent lavish while in power too)
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now unless you can prove somehow that they used Govt money was directly or indirectly used to pay for their bills abroad, I see no reason to make a big deal out of this. Also, doesnt Nawaz own a residence in London, why would he need to stay in a hotel there?
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
Yes, I see no problem with that, but then again, Mushy was in the army, the first question that would pop up would be where did he get all the money from? Nawaz and Benazir on the other hand were involved in money laundering, but I am sure with their industries and lands they could easily afford to stay in lavish hotels.
now unless you can prove somehow that they used Govt money was directly or indirectly used to pay for their bills abroad, I see no reason to make a big deal out of this. Also, doesnt Nawaz own a residence in London, why would he need to stay in a hotel there?
you have got to be kidding me. zardari was known as mr 10% 20% whatever %. This is not a hotel, this is a residence in Park Lane, probably one of the most expensive areas in the world.
now unless these personalities have suddenly become saints for you, lets agree that their money is heavily tainted with money obtained through corrupt means. And once we're done with that we can stop this intellectual pinhead of a discussion and acknowledge that they too are spending money they shouldnt ever have had.
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
It had to be in UK so that bilawal didn't have to miss class or homework.
Happy?
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
you have got to be kidding me. zardari was known as mr 10% 20% whatever %. This is not a hotel, this is a residence in Park Lane, probably one of the most expensive areas in the world.
now unless these personalities have suddenly become saints for you, lets agree that their money is heavily tainted with money obtained through corrupt means. And once we're done with that we can stop this intellectual pinhead of a discussion and acknowledge that they too are spending money they shouldnt ever have had.
Ravage, either you are having a hard time reading or maybe you are just skipping through, I never said they are saints, but to the original question at hand, these meetings have nothing to do with the national 'treasure', which is what was compared to Musharraf's trips abroad. Whether looted money from 2 decades ago was used to fund these meetings or stay in hotels is a different issue, maybe you should put on your amazing detective hat, and investigate where it came from.
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
why do i need to investigate where it came from? You acknowledge that they arent saints, you say that whatever they did was wrong and "unjustified" and then say I need to investigate where the money came from? If the money wasnt obtained illegitimately while in power what was wrong, what was unjustified and why arent they saints?
you need to stick to one position, you change within the same paragraph. I dont care what specifically funded this trip, otherwise one could make a similarly assinine argument that musharraf might have funded his london trip with the life savings earned during his life in the army and then while president. He would probably have just enough.
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
why do i need to investigate where it came from? You acknowledge that they arent saints, you say that whatever they did was wrong and "unjustified" and then say I need to investigate where the money came from? If the money wasnt obtained illegitimately while in power what was wrong, what was unjustified and why arent they saints?
you need to stick to one position, you change within the same paragraph. I dont care what specifically funded this trip, otherwise one could make a similarly assinine argument that musharraf might have funded his london trip with the life savings earned during his life in the army and then while president. He would probably have just enough.
Like I said before, I can prove Musharrafs book selling trips and all were done through Govt expenditure. You cant prove this trip had anything from our tax money, just speculations. Unless you can prove that, I wont bother repeating something which wont get through you.
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
Unfortunately anything you prove about Musharraf is also speculation. Your "proof" here has just as much value as my "speculation" here.
you try to bury your head in the sand by saying I cant prove it when you acknowledge that their money isnt clean.
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
Unfortunately anything you prove about Musharraf is also speculation. Your "proof" here has just as much value as my "speculation" here.
The book selling ceremony and all, were done under his reign as president and were paid for by the Govt, this isnt a speculation but a hard fact, and it was made a big deal by the press.
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you try to bury your head in the sand by saying I cant prove it when you acknowledge that their money isnt clean.
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I just did. speculations vs facts, facts win hands down, even with strong speculations, which I agree you have.
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
The book selling ceremony and all, were done under his reign as president and were paid for by the Govt, this isnt a speculation but a hard fact, and it was made a big deal by the press.
A big deal of the conduct of these two gentlemen was also made by the press, not too long ago.
How do you know he didnt use his private finances for all book related matters. He might have some army savings you know.
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I just did. speculations vs facts, facts win hands down, even with strong speculations, which I agree you have.
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this isnt really a court of law. they will remain criminals regardless of whether they are ever convicted, just as musharraf will.
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
Pakistani politicians only discuss their future.
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
A big deal of the conduct of these two gentlemen was also made by the press, not too long ago.
How do you know he didnt use his private finances for all book related matters. He might have some army savings you know.
If you didnt know that, maybe you should start reading up, its a very WELL known fact, and it was recently raised in parliament too, infact someone even opened a thread about it.
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this isnt really a court of law. they will remain criminals regardless of whether they are ever convicted, just as musharraf will.
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What was being discussed here in this thread, the meetings officially did not take place using Government finances, so I see nothing wrong with them :p
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
right, you see nothing wrong with anyone you are presently carrying water for. you see nothing wrong despite acknowledging their ill gotten money, ill gotten at the expense of whom if not the pakistani people?
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
Ravage, Ive stated this so many times, this was not done on Govt expenses, so whats the problem then?
The problem is, most likely these politicians are travelling to London, Dubai on party funds... I have no doubt the funding comes from "public" and not the leaders themselves. Do these party leaders provide accountability to party and its members where there funded money is being spent? I don't think they are doing that.
When "all" the politicians who are going to meet are "Pakistanis" then why not meet in Pakistan? If we fear our agencies, does anyone think that agencies of other countries will stay away from them when meeting on foreign soil? I don't think so.
Just as I don't like the fact Altaf Hussein is living in a mansion in UK on public funding (including extortion money) I don't like the fact our politicians and govt officials go abroad for things they could've done while staying in Pakistan.
Re: Why is Pakistan’s future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
Right, I go after the obvious first, aur kuch 
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
Pakistani politicians only discuss their future.
Yup, and they don't seem that confident of their future when they hold meetings at plush residences in foreign capitals.
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
Nobody cares for the poor people of this country - be if Musharraf or NS or AS or AH. All belong to the plundering elite class.
Re: Why is Pakistan's future being discussed by our politicians outside of Pakistan?
Aren't the real stakeholders and decision makers of Pakistan located in Washington D.C and London? That is why.