Why does America support Israel?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Why does America support Israel?

have u ever heard of a thing called an analogy?

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Re: Why does America support Israel?

As expected instead of having a mature discussion you after losing every single argument have now started insults as a way of lifting your spirits…

Now please this should satisfy a rampant anti-semite like your self

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Re: Why does America support Israel?

good to see you encourage your little pet, Malik, Lajawab

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Re: Why does America support Israel?

He doesn’t need encouragement and he’s my brother not my pet…

But this camaraderie between brothers in faith is far, far beyond your scope of comprehension…

What are facts and history to you anyway? Nothing…Keep watching CNN and Fox for reality…

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Re: Why does America support Israel?

See the difference between me and people like you is I understand both sides of the argument and come to a general conclusion but to you only listen to one side of the argument, one side of the story and your posts are a prime example of what can happen to people who are brain washed since childhood.........

As for Fox and CNN that is just another sorry attempt at a comeback...

I watch Fox, CNN, BBC, Al-Manar (when its on), Al-Jazeera, read the Tehran Times, Jerusalem Post and many other news outlets...

to get a full comprehensive scope of daily events from both sides from the right wing Israeli newspaper to the ultra right wing Tehran Times, etc....

But I am sure all you do is listen to people who think like you and reinforce your opinion...

isnt that what leads to ignorance?

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Re: Why does America support Israel?

So basically, you are well indoctrinated…

You don’t know anything about me, so I’ll tell you where I am coming from…

I have been living abroad for a long time, almost everywhere…Most of the views I held were quite similar to your own but not as extreme where I’d support genocide…

I was pretty anti-Islam and anti-Muslim having received my indoctrination from the western media…

I never prayed, not even Jumaah, hated Muslims and was truly under the impression that Muslims have been the cause of terrorism around the world…

It was 9/11 which opened my eyes…There was such a tremendous exposure of Islam, that I could not but help read about it…

I took a few courses in college about Islamic history and civlization and did reading on my own…

It was then that reality struck me as to how wrong, deluded and misguided I was…

But, in order for me to know the truth, I had to do a lot of reading and found out how deceptive, lying, untrue and hateful western media is…And you are living proof of that…

But thankfully, due to incredible advancements in information dissemination from various sources, millions are knowing the truth…All around the world and even in the USA…They realize where the truth is and know it…I am not talking about made up truth…Factual, documented truth is what I talk about…

Yet, many, like yourself, either are incapable of acquiring that truth, don;t want to acquitre the truth or like in your case, know it yet are in denial…These people remain ignorant and for their ease that they don’t hurt themselves by thinking too much, there is propaganda that spews forth from CNN and Fox and Hollywood so they can form an opinion…

So when you deny the facts that Malik posts, all you are doing is acting exactly as you have been trained to do…Deny everything, even if presented with facts…

So no, I was not like this always…I was a musician with deep dislike for Islam and Muslims…But, I took it upon mself to know the truth…And it’s out there…Unless you don’t wanna get it or deny it outright…

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Re: Why does America support Israel?

Well here is my life's Story

I was born in Lahore, Pakistan in 1982... I moved to Saudi Arabia where my dad worked in 1984. Lived 4 Years in Makkah and 8 years in Jeddah. Immigrated to Canada in 1996, lived here ever since.

Well, I never hated Islam. I am very Islamic, I pray atleast once a day, and living in Makkah I used to perform Umrah every month and Tawaf almost every day and used to go from Jeddah to Makkah every month.

I love Islam, I have read a great deal about Islamic civilization its culture and its contribution to the world.

I read books everyday before going to sleep, its part of my daily routine.

Each day that I get up, I want to learn something new.

9/11 really didn't open my eyes but bascially confirmed what I already knew which was an extremist whabbist society like Saudi Arabia with its anti-christian and anti-jewish propoganda is brain washing millions upon millions of people.

I my self was quite anti-israeli and anti-jewish living in Saudi Arabia. When Hamas launched its suicide bombings in 1995, I was very happy that Israelis have died.

But after coming to the West and getting different viewpoints, I drew my own conclusions on what is going on with Israel and Palestine.

The media doesn't influence me. I do my own investigation, such as getting both sides of the story and asking people who are from that part of the world what exactly is going on and living in Toronto its not hard to find people from around the world.

Unlike you, I never doubted Islam...

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Re: Why does America support Israel?


You don't have to be a rocket scientist to comprehend the basis of your camaraderie. It is grounded in self righteouness, bias, racism, hatred, extremism and thoughts like these:

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Re: Why does America support Israel?

America has to support Israel due to good communications. The majority of huge building and homelands in America are of Jews. Jews are the richest and supports each other. They are powerful in terms of money.

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Re: Why does America support Israel?

Iraq, Palestine Afghanistan, Vietnam, Hiroshima, Nagasaki e.t.c. are just glimpses of what the world can expect from Israel and USA…

And the same law that gives you the right to bomb, kill, nuke and destroy in other lands gives Mal1k the right espouse any view he deems fit…

Otherwise if you don’t believe that, then the guy who printed the cartoons of our Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) and Theo Van Gogh deserve to be dead too…

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Re: Why does America support Israel?

Why don't you add Yugoslavia / Milosovic in the long list of Israeli crimes? And how about Chechniya. That must be Israeli crime too? While you are at it go ahead add Cuba, and North / South Korea and Japan as a whole.

Hafiz's Sohan Halwa
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Re: Why does America support Israel?


You always throw in governments, history, Nagasaki, geopolitical-speak to cover up our own personal comments. We alone are responsible for our comments, none of us had anything to do with Vietnam. Your indoctrination into this extremism, hatred and wishing others to die while claiming some kind of high moral ground is beyond irrational. It borders on psychotic. Your myopic view on the world is cult-like. Your disdain for others unmatched. May God grant you peace and wisdom and hopefully you will find the real message from Him. It's not this hatred and self righteousness, I assure you. There is truly no hope for the wolrd with your kind of thinking.

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Re: Why does America support Israel?

Well, it's apparent that Jajjy got an A in Memorizing and Regurgitating Anti-American Drivel. Good Boy.

And, StratFor just sent this email, describing the impending ground conflict. Pull up your knickers and lay your bets.

"Red Alert: Getting Ready

We are now in the period preceding major conventional operations. Israel is in the process of sealing the Lebanese coast. They have disrupted Lebanese telecommunications, although they have not completely collapsed the structure. Israeli aircraft are attacking Hezbollah's infrastructure and road system. In the meantime, Hezbollah, aware it is going to be hit hard, is in a use-it or-lose-it scenario, firing what projectiles it can into Israel.

The Israeli strategy appears to be designed to do two things. First, the Israelis are trying to prevent any supplies from entering Lebanon, including reinforcements. That is why they are attacking all coastal maritime facilities. Second, they are degrading the roads in Lebanon. That will keep reinforcements from reaching Hezbollah fighters engaged in the south. As important, it will prevent the withdrawal and redeployment of heavy equipment deployed by Hezbollah in the south, particularly their rockets, missiles and launchers. The Israelis are preparing the battlefield to prevent a Hezbollah retreat or maneuver.

Hezbollah's strategy has been imposed on it. It seems committed to standing and fighting. The rate of fire they are maintaining into Israel is clearly based on an expectation that Israel will be attacking. The rocketry guarantees the Israelis will attack. Hezbollah has been reported to have anti-tank and anti-air weapons. The Israelis will use airmobile tactics to surround and isolate Hezbollah concentrations, but in the end, they will have to go in, engage and defeat Hezbollah tactically. Hezbollah obviously knows this, but there is no sign of disintegration on its part. At the very least, Hezbollah is projecting an appetite for combat. Sources in Beirut, who have been reliable to this point, say Hezbollah has weapons that have not yet been seen, such as anti-aircraft missiles, and that these will be used shortly. Whatever the truth of this, Hezbollah does not seem to think its situation is hopeless.

The uncertain question is Syria. No matter how effectively Israel seals the Lebanese coast, so long as the Syrian frontier is open, Hezbollah might get supplies from there, and might be able to retreat there. So far, there has been only one reported airstrike on a Syrian target. Both Israel and Syria were quick to deny this.

What is interesting is that it was the Syrians who insisted very publicly that no such attack took place. The Syrians are clearly trying to avoid a situation in which they are locked into a confrontation with Israel. Israel might well think this is the time to have it out with Syria as well, but Syria is trying very hard not to give Israel casus belli. In addition, Syria is facilitating the movement of Westerners out of Lebanon, allowing them free transit. They are trying to signal that they are being cooperative and nonaggressive.

The problem is this: While Syria does not want to get hit and will not make overt moves, so long as the Syrians cannot guarantee supplies will not reach Hezbollah or that Hezbollah won't be given sanctuary in Syria, Israel cannot complete its mission of shattering Hezbollah and withdrawing. They could be drawn into an Iraq-like situation that they absolutely don't want. Israel is torn. On the one hand, it wants to crush Hezbollah, and that requires total isolation. On the other hand, it does not want the Syrian regime to fall. What comes after would be much worse from Israel's point of view.

This is the inherent problem built into Israel's strategy, and what gives Hezbollah some hope. If Israel does not attack Syria, Hezbollah could well survive Israel's attack by moving across the border. No matter how many roads are destroyed, Israel won't be able to prevent major Hezbollah formations moving across the border. If they do attack Syria and crush al Assad's government, Hezbollah could come out of this stronger than ever.

Judging from the airstrikes in the past 24 hours, it would appear Israel is trying to solve the problem tactically, by degrading Lebanese transport facilities. That could increase the effectiveness of the strategy, but in the end cannot be sufficient. We continue to think Israel will choose not to attack Syria directly and therefore, while the invasion will buy time, it will not solve the problem. Hezbollah certainly expects to be badly hurt, but it does not seem to expect to be completely annihilated. We are guessing, but our guess is that they are reading Israel's views on Syria and are betting that, in the long run, they will come out stronger. Of course, Israel knows this and therefore may have a different plan for Syria. At any rate, this is the great unknown in this campaign.

The other unknown is the withdrawal of Western nationals from Lebanon. We have received very reliable reports from sources in Lebanon who assure us Hezbollah does not intend to renew hostage taking, which is deemed an old and nonproductive strategy. These same sources have reported splits in Hezbollah over how aggressive it should be. We believe Hezbollah has no current plans for hostage taking. We are not convinced, however, that in the course of the battle it will not change its mind, or that with weakened central control elements, elements of Hezbollah will take hostages as a bargaining chip. Regardless of what Hezbollah is saying now, hostage taking must be taken seriously as a possibility.

The U.S. Embassy in Beirut is now saying plans are being developed in concert with the U.S. Defense Department for extracting U.S. nationals from Lebanon. A convoy scheduled to travel from the American University of Beirut to Amman, Jordan, via Syria, was cancelled at the last moment, with participants being told that the embassy has other plans.

There are said to be 25,000 U.S. citizens in Lebanon, but many of these are Lebanese-American dual nationals who actually live in Lebanon as Lebanese. These are less visible, less at risk and have greater resources for survival. The most at-risk Americans are those who hold only U.S. papers and are clearly American, such as employees of American companies, students studying at Lebanese universities and tourists. There is no clear count of these high-risk nationals, nor is there a count on high-risk nationals from other non-Islamic countries. There are thousands, however, and getting them out will be difficult.

The U.S. Embassy is considering flying them to Cyprus. That would mean an air bridge from Beirut International Airport, where a single runway has been opened, to Cyprus, a short flight away. The United States will not do this while Beirut is under attack, so it will ask the Israelis to create a safe zone and air corridor during the evacuation. But the threat on the ground is real, and we suspect the United States will send troops in to secure the perimeter and surrounding areas against shoulder-launched missiles. They will also keep the precise timing secret, although thousands of people in Lebanon -- the evacuees -- will know it is coming.

There was a Marine Expeditionary Force on maneuvers in the Red Sea a few days ago. We do not know where they are now, but they had 2,200 marines on board -- the right number to secure extraction. We suspect aircraft will be chartered from airlines in the region and that some U.S. Air Force and allied aircraft might also be used. Doubtless, the United States is busy organizing it. Given that the United States cancelled several ad hoc withdrawals, it must be highly confident it has the process nailed; we would expect this operation to get going sometime Sunday. Assuming aircraft that can carry any average of 200 people (purely arbitrary), 50-100 flights could get everyone out. Assuming that everyone can be notified and can get to Beirut International Airport. That won't happen. The remainder who are at risk will probably be advised to move into Christian areas east and northeast of Beirut and to keep their heads down for the duration. It is also possible that discussion of Cyprus notwithstanding, the path will be through Syria, but we doubt that.

In the meantime, that Israel has not sent major ground units into Lebanon yet (lots of small units are operating there) but is taking rocket attacks and hunkering down indicates it does not plan to act piecemeal. If we were to guess, the main thrust would likely begin late Sunday night or Monday morning. They will be ready by then. Of course we are not privy to Israeli operations, so it could be delayed 24-48 hours to give forces a chance to gear up. But given the Hezbollah bombardment, the Israelis are under pressure to move sooner rather than later.

We are in a relatively quiet spell (emphasis on quiet). Both sides have made their strategic decisions. Both know how the war will be fought. Hezbollah thinks it can give as good as it will get for a while, and will ultimately be able to regroup for a guerrilla war against the Israelis. Israel thinks it can immobilize and crush Hezbollah quickly and decisively and will be able to withdraw. Both sides know Syria is the wild card, and neither is quite sure how it will play its hand. One side is wrong in its expectations about the outcome. That's the nature of war."

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Re: Why does America support Israel?

Just read your source. No where does it indicate that there were Jewish majority areas in Palestine prior to the British mandate. In fact it seems to clearly say that the Jewish population was a direct result of immigration from Europe and only a tiny number of Jews existed as indigienous peoples in Palestine, thanks for proving my point.
There is not, nor has there ever been, a moral or logical justification for the creation of the Israeli state. After the horrors of the halocaust, a state for jews SHOULD have been created, but it should have been in Germany, not in the lands of people who had absolutely nothing to do with the halocaust.

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this argument is going in circles

i have had these arguments before

its time to end this discussion

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That’s why I believe you have never seen both sides of the picture…

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no, my reply didnt argue one tiny bit how different the two issues are!!

:rolleyes: analogy; how would i know, im another illiterate Pakistani brainwashed by terrorists to support the Palestinians!

as for u knowing both sides of the story;

even russians r saying the use of force/power should be balanced; even europeans are critical of Israel’s action and yet u only talk about the two kidnapped soldiers? u never say u support Palestine; they’ve done this wrong, they’ve done that wrong, Israel is right!
whilst u can easily see why Israel attacks, i.e. kidanpping.. u never see why Palestinians do watever wrong they do!?

both sides of the story!?

i respect ur being religious and knowing about Islamic history and stuff; cuz i havent read, dont know

but its unbelievable how u cant see 9/11 or watever’s happening around the world!!

well others supossedly run out of arguments and start name calling & insults;
calling others pet doesnt fall under the above!?

May Allah help us all and make us see and believe! Aameen

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Re: Why does America support Israel?

no.....read the site again

basically what it says that before the end of the ottoman empire there was no credible census done

only after the british took over and it showed there were jewish majority areas in tel aviv

i never said that jews had majority all over, just in areas such as tel aviv and west jerusalem

and when Israel declared independence, it was attacked, it fought back and captured more territory

israel was only 1/5th from its present size today

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Israel Violates Law on U.S. Weapons in Mideast

Thalif Deen

                                                         **UNITED NATIONS, Jul 17 (IPS) - Israel is in violation of U.S. arms control laws for deploying U.S.-made fighter planes, combat helicopters and missiles to kill civilians and destroy Lebanon's infrastructure in the ongoing six-day devastation of that militarily-weak country. **

The death toll, according to published reports, is over 200 people – mostly civilians – while the economic losses have been estimated at about 100 million dollars per day.

“Section 4 of the (U.S.) Arms Export Control Act requires that military items transferred to foreign governments by the United States be used solely for internal security and legitimate self-defence,” says Stephen Zunes, professor of politics at the University of San Francisco.

“Since Israeli attacks against Lebanon’s civilian infrastructure and population centres clearly go beyond legitimate self-defence, the United States is legally obliged to suspend arms transfers to Israel,” Zunes told IPS.

Frida Berrigan, a senior research associate with the Arms Trade Resource Centre at the World Policy Institute in New York, is equally outraged at the misuse by Israel of U.S.-supplied weapons.

“As Israel jets bombard locations in Gaza, Haifa and Beirut, killing civilians (including as many as seven Canadians vacationing in Aitaroun), it is worth remembering that U.S. law is clear about how U.S.-origin weapons and military systems ought to be used,” Berrigan told IPS.

She pointed out that the U.S. Arms Export Control Act clear states that U.S. origin weapons should not be used for “non-defensive purposes.”

“In light of this clear statement, the United States has an opportunity to stave off further bloodshed and suffering by demanding that its weaponry and military aid not be used in attacks against Lebanon and elsewhere, and challenging Israeli assertions that it is using military force defensively,” she added.

That would demonstrate the kind of “utmost restraint” that world leaders called for at the G8 Summit of the world’s most industrialised nations, which just ended in St. Petersburg, Russia.

The 25-member European Union has said that Israel’s military retaliation against Lebanon is “grossly disproportionate” to the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers last week by the Islamic militant group Hezbollah, which is a coalition partner of the U.S.-supported government in Beirut.

Israel has accused both Syria and Iran of providing rockets and missiles to Hezbollah, which has used these weapons to hit mostly civilian targets inside Israel.

Israel’s prodigious military power – currently unleashed on a virtually defenceless Lebanon – is sourced primarily to the United States.

Armed mostly with state-of-the-art U.S.-supplied fighter planes and combat helicopters, the Israeli military is capable of matching a combination of all or most of the armies in most Middle Eastern countries, including Iran, Syria, Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

The air force has continued to devastate Beirut and its suburbs with no resistance in the skies during six days of incessant bombings, causing civilian deaths and infrastructure destruction.

“The Israeli Air Force now flies only U.S.-origin fighters, a mix of F-15s and F-16s, and the rest of the service’s fleet is almost completely of U.S. origin,” says Tom Baranauskas, a senior Middle East analyst at Forecast International, a leading provider of defence market intelligence services in the United States.

While in earlier years Israel bought from a variety of arms suppliers, with the French in particular being strong sellers to Israel of such items as Mirage fighters, over the past couple of decades the United States has developed into Israel’s preponderant arms supplier, he added.

“The U.S. domination as Israel’s arms supplier can be seen in the Congressional Research Service’s (CRS) annual study of arms sales,” Baranauskas told IPS.

He said the latest CRS survey shows a total of 8.4 billion dollars of arms deliveries to Israel in the 1997-2004 period, with fully 7.1 billion dollars or 84.5 percent coming from a single source: the United States.

A major factor in this trend was the rise in U.S. Foreign Military Financing (FMF) – outright U.S. grants to Israel – which now totals about 2.3 billion dollars a year paid for by U.S. taxpayers.

By U.S. law, Baranauskas said, 74 percent of FMF assistance to Israel must be spent on U.S. military products. This U.S. assistance has now become the main source of financing for Israel’s major arms procurements, especially its fighter planes.

From a historical perspective, he said, U.S. assistance to Israel during 1950-2005 has been staggeringly high: Foreign Military Financing (FMF) amounting to 59.5 billion dollars; 27 billion dollars in Foreign Military Sales (FMS) mostly government-to-government arms transactions; and eight billion dollars in commercial arms sales by the private sector.

Berrigan of the Arms Trade Resource Centre said the United States is undoubtedly the primary supplier of Israeli firepower.

In the interest of strengthening Israel’s security and maintaining the country’s “qualitative military edge” over neighbouring militaries, the U.S. Congress provides Israel with annual FMF grants that represent about 23 percent of its overall defence budget. Israel’s 2006 military budget is estimated at 7.4 billion dollars.

According to the Congressional Research Service, FMF levels are expected to increase incrementally by 60 million dollars a year to a level of 2.4 billion dollars by 2008 compared with 2.2 billion dollars in 2005.

“Israel has been the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid every year since 1976,” Berrigan said.

Additionally, the United States provides Israel with billions of dollars worth of weaponry.

She pointed out that recent military sales to Israel include propulsion systems for fast patrol boats worth more than 15 million dollars from MTU Detroit Diesel; an eight-million-dollar contract to Lockheed Martin for high-tech infrared “navigation and targeting” capabilities for Israeli jets; and a 145-million-dollar deal with Oshkosh Truck Corp to build more than 900 armour kits for Israeli Medium Tactical Vehicles.

In December of last year, Lockheed Martin was awarded a 29.8-million-dollar contract to provide spares part for Israel’s F-16 fighter planes.

Berrigan also said that Israel has one of the world’s largest fleets of F-16 fighter planes, made in Fort Worth, Texas and also in Israel by Lockheed Martin Corporation.

Israel has a total of over 378 F-16s, considered one of the world’s most advanced fighter planes – besides 117 F-15s, 94 Skyhawks, 110 Phantoms – all supplied by the United States. (END/2006)

Professional Brit/Asians in Al Ain of all places???
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^^

As if that laws, rules amd regulations apply to the US and Israel...