Why do we exist? Or does it really matter?

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"Religion is only one of the ways of understanding life..( or maybe this is wrong , religion doesnt help you understand anything but itself...and believers are left to repeat words like parrots without knowing what they are talking about..and worst , thay invest so much of themselves in it that, no room for furthering their knowledge, or tolerance of other opinions is possible..."

Nova: I totally agree with you. I just felt like talking about religion, and I didn't want the thread to be closed so I added a little disclaimer ;)

I like your interpretation of "why we exist", its enlightening :)

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Now why did I have this feeling that this thread will turn itself into a religious discussion. This is totally unacceptable. I have no choice but to close this thread. Move this discussion to the appropriate forum.

Ooops, I forgot, I don't moderate this forum. Sorry fellas. Carry on

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Please don't take this offensively, but I don't understand why people cannot be honest. If religion really is the answer to the question in focus, then why do people try and avoid the issue? If this is where the answers lie, then surely one should search for them in the appropriate areas, rather than clutching for straws and coming up with an ideology which is more mythical then anything else.

This is what's so confusing. Many Pakistanis claim to be Muslim, yet you do not even hold Muslim beliefs, but try and avoid religion, by putting forward other alternatives, no matter how flawed. If you ask a Christian, who claims to be Christian, then he will tell you that Christianity holds the answer to the question, 'what is the purpose of life?'

I put a question forward to Muzna, in an earlier thread, asking her what remains the difference between Christianity and Islam. I liked her honesty, as she told me that she could not answer this question. She advised me to post it on the 'Religious affairs' forum, where Tariq Khan may be able to answer it! But somehow, it doesn't seem likely that he will be able to answer it … I'll probably end up with a scientific explanation (which I think he himself isn't fully convinced of). And I'll begin to wonder if I posted a question about Christianity and Islam on the correct forum, and perhaps the thread will soon be closed.

Kashmirgirl posted the topic in the 'Meeting new people' forum called 'What makes a friend?', and in that thread Hasnain gave a good answer, where he said that one of the characteristics of a friend is that when someone asks him for advice, he advises sincerely. That sincerity is missing from most answers on this thread. People don't take that word seriously enough. So far as I could see, Abdulla was the only person who showed sincerity in answering the question. Someone could be desperate to look for an answer, while people throw all kinds of opinions toward him. In his confusion he is led astray just because people were not sincere.

The problem is that, when a question is asked, people just cannot keep quiet, even when they don't know. Someone always has to say something, while others have to have the last word, often at the expense of the questioner and those who are listening (reading in this case). Surely, it is better to keep quiet if does not know, and hope that someone will have the answer somewhere.

I'm sorry if my words have offended anyone, as I'm sure they may have, but this was not the aim of this posting. After observing dome of the responses I thought I ought to address certain issues. And I'll admit, I'm not the best myself when it comes to giving advise, as I also have a lot to learn. We all have a lot to learn, but without the right attitude, this may prove challenging for some.

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Hi John-

The purpose of life? Hmmm, lets see if I could be of some help.

Starting point of my analysis is the belief that there's a creator of the universe, meaning God. So the God created everything BUT he just didn't simply created, he created everything with perfection and without any flaws.

THIS UNIVERSAL SYSTEM IS THE MODEL OF PERFECTION.

Look at the sky, hanging above us without any support, the sun and the moon revolving in their fixed orbits and never malfunctioned, the stars glorifying the skies in the nights. This universe is beautifully architected and created. The God hasn't created this universe in a split of a second (although he is capable of), but he did it through evolution and in stages. According to Quran, he took seven days and six nights (one day is equal to app. 1000 years based on our calender), so the perfection is obvious. So ... there's a creator who love perfection. I think everybody agreed.

Then, look at us. What is the source of our creation? A drop of water i.e. semen. In the womb, a drop of water is transformed into a living human being through various stages. We came into being from nowhere. Then after birth, we go through different phases in our lives. Infant, child, teenage, adult, old and then the end of the story. Again a very well thought process of reproduction and life cycle.

Being a human alone is not enough and God knew that so he gave knowledge also ... very limited but enough for us to progress, think and apply.

So the human being started thinking about everything why, why, why, how, how, how?

Why the fire is created? Why the air is created? Why the water is created? and so forth.

While drinking a glass of water, how many of us has thought WHY THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF WATER IN THE WORLD? WHAT IF THERE WOULD'VE BEEN ONLY SEA WATER?

Then I look at the animals. Cows, horses, goats,... Why they're in control of human being?

Look how important the rain is for our lives?

And there are infinite examples...

So we know that we're the most super creature of God and he must love us thats why he has given us EVERYTHING that we require.

So everything has a purpose... fire, water, air, rain, animals,... but there are alots of things that we do not use so for us, they're useless but remember, we have been given a very very limited knowledge.

So for this gracious and merciful creator who love perfection, is it possible that he would create something with no purpose and that something is not but his most beautiful creature ... human being?

John- If this small analysis makes some sense to you and if you want to pursue it, I'll be more than happy to participate.

Regards.

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Dear John,

I'm really having trouble understanding where it is exactly you are coming from. You asked one of the most broadest general questions that any one could ever ask. You stated in your original post "it would be nice to hear everyones views, and all responses are more than welcome." Once you recieved the response you became confused and "baffled". You didn't understand why there was a multiplicity of answers to one of the most complex (if not the most) questions posed in the history of mankind. Although you didn't mention it directly in your original post, it now seems as though, you were expecting an Islamic answer from Pakistani's. Since in your experience and opinion "all" Pakistani's "claim to be Muslims" and hence should subscribe to one united answer to the question you posed. What, perhaps, you failed to realize was that your stereotype of a typical Pakistani, being a God fearing orthodox Muslim, was flawed. Pakistani's are as diverse as any other group, we are all individually different, as shocking as that may be. We have different world views and not all of us are tied down to Islam. And even when we do take comfort in our religion and look for answers from the Qur'an and Sunnah (traditions) of Prophet Muhammad we differ in our interpretations. I think you know that there isn't one solid answer (to your question) to which all Pakistanis adhere to. I think you realize that Pakistani's are entitled to their own individual opinions and are free to express them on forums like this one. So why the fuss? Why do you insist on an "Islamic" answer to your question? I can guarantee you that, since Islam is not a mono-lithic religion (as you seem to have stereo-typed it), you will never get one answer to almost any question you pose to Muslims. We are a fragmented and divided people, even in our religion (as are Christians and Jews and any other major religion). This diversity in opinion is something your going to have to accept.

I agree with you, people like to discuss, they like to engage themselves, even when they don't have anything productive to say. But John, when you invite them to discuss a topic as broad as the one you've mentioned and you don't specify that you would like a religious answer from Muslims (for that matter maybe you should clarify what type of Muslims - Sunni, Shiah, Sufi, Ismaili, etc), what do you expect? You should expect a chorus of answers from a group of people, who in their minds have their own answer to your question, and you should expect that their answer may not be an Islamic one, it maybe metaphysical, it maybe Christian, it maybe anything, but the point is that you invited them to share their beautiful thoughts, and than chastized them for not being true to the vision of a stereo-typical homogenous Muslim Pakistani. A vision you imposed on them.

Maybe I'm mis-reading something here or I missed something. I don't know, but you've really confused me - did you want everyone to respond to your question, or just a select group of Pakistani's who would represent our very diverse nation?

There was no offense intended in my post, and I apoligize if it does offend.

Achtung

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Hey John, m'man,
good topic.... however i think you should expect to find answers based on the beliefs of the majority of the folks here, not neccessarily agreeing with a few, who seem to drag their same ole theories into every topic, as if they were dained to convert the entire human race.
It all boils down to this, wether our existance is required for this universe to exist,or vise versa, we have to do our part(could'nt put it any better than Nova)in "The Grand Design Of Things".
Maybe our frail human minds are too little to comprehend the vastness of that question.
Some times it pays not to look at the big picture, but rather to accept the uniqueness of your own individuall shade that the great artist has chosen you to depict in His Masterpiece.(jeez i'm good, maybe even quoted someday :) )
I read somewhere that when science cannot answer a question, man turns to peotry. (or religion?)Anyway here's one i really like. Not neccessarily an answer to your question, nevertheless.......

Oh Lord my God
When I in awesome wonder
consider all
the works thy hands have made.
I see the stars
I hear the roaring thunder
arrayed for us
the universe displayed.
Then sings my soul
my savior God to thee
how great thou arth
how great thou arth.
(hope i have the words right)

"Keep smiling, and have fun always"

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Blitz, nice poem it reminded me of another I got in an email from a friend a few months ago:

THERE IS NO GOD?

There is no God. All the wonders around us are accidental. No almighty hand made a thousand billion stars. They made themselves. No power keeps them on their steady course. The earth spins itself to keep the oceans from falling off toward the sun. Infants teach themselves to cry when they are angry or hurt. A small flower invented itself so that we could extract digitalis for sick hearts.

The earth gave itself day and night, tilted itself so that we get seasons. Without the magnetic poles man would be unable to navigate the trackless oceans of water and air, but they just grew there.

How about the sugar thermostat in the pancreas? It maintains a level of sugar in the blood sufficient for energy. Without it, all of us would fall into a coma and die.

Why does snow sit on mountaintops waiting for the warm spring sun to melt it at just the right time for the young crops in farms below to drink? A very lovely accident.

The human heart will beat for 70 or 80 years without faltering. How does it get sufficient rest between beats? A kidney will filter poison from the blood, and leave good things alone. How does it know one from the other?

Who gave the human tongue flexibility to form words, and a brain to understand them, but denied it to all other animals?

Who showed a womb how to take the love of two persons and keep splitting a tiny ovum until, in time, a baby would have the proper number of fingers, eyes and ears and hair in the right places, and come into the world when it is strong enough to sustain life?

There is no God?

~ by Jim Bishop

==

"Say: "Truly, my prayer
And my service of sacrifice,
My life and my death,
Are all for Allah,
The Cherisher of the Worlds..."
(Quran, Surah Al-An'am, 6: 162)

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Ok guys

Enough....(smiles)
take it to religion.