Why is force the ultimate – or should I say the primal tool – to mould someone to the majority’s beliefs (be it shia or sunni)?
i see muslims of all different bankgrounds and beliefs getting along pretty well here in america; why cant we forsake our undying thirst of ‘being the chosen ones’, and live and let live???
EXACTLY!
So basically one needs to be kept busy all the time to take one's mind away from building hate-walls! We muslims seriously need to be occupied more into the secular aspect of our lives, which wud keep us aloof from all the BS!
Bw: America should be a perfect role-model for all muslim countries. Of all the years i have been here...NOT one incident of shia-sunni violence! Damn, America ROCKS!
"You DaMan?"
Ummm....say that again!
why dont u tell that to the jews, why dont they live and let OTHERS live
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by farhanDaMan: *
**America should be a perfect role-model for all muslim countries.* Of all the years i have been here...NOT one incident of shia-sunni violence!
[/QUOTE]
"Perfect role-model"? i doubt it.
oye veeeee
not a perfect role model, but a very good role model still.
This may sound out of topic - i was reading somewhere about the incarceration statistics for African Americans as compared to prison inmates of other nationalities, in the US. It’s seriously out of whack - compared to their actual numbers in the US, they’re overly represented in US prisons. i am not saying that this means the US is the world’s worst country or even the only country where this occurs, i am not saying i hate the US, i am not saying anything of the sort. Before anyone takes my words and twists them, please be aware of the words i am carefully choosing. No country is perfect.
CBS did a report on this issue last year which is pretty interesting http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/07/31/national/main516966.shtml (Among other reports Jail rate for young blacks hits peak in US prison boom ). But my point is, that in the original post of this thread a comment was made about Shia-Sunni violence.. many Muslim countries today do have a lack of justice especially with regards to their minorities. i do not dispute that. What i do dispute is the notion that US society is “perfect” or may serve as a “perfect” role-model. Perhaps if we had more African Americans participating in this Forum, we could get a different perspective on how ‘perfect’ they believe their society is… and how equitably they feel they are treated being a ‘minority’ group.
Disclaimers: i don’t hate the US, never will, never have, and i don’t hate Jews, never have and never will. i don’t believe any country is perfect. And i am not saying ALL minority groups in the US are treated horribly. Just merely disputing the claim that it can be a “perfect” role-model.
Nadia
Me using the word 'perfect' was merely to imply that there's no such thing as secretarian violence here in the US. No nation is perfect as such...I agree. But then again, when you see something good...you dont counter it by pointing out somein negative....just the way u did.
I am just advocating the positive aspects of the US...NOT the negatives. Learn from the former...discard the later.
why is there a need to always backlash?
I do have an idea where you coming from farhan, i.e Muslims should be more united among their own reiligion and fight as one; not as seperated Shia/Sunni. Fine i agree . But america being a role model ? That is just something really stupid. Yea if you taking in the context that there is no Muslim violence you are right. America is not a Muslim Majority country. Lets say for the argument sake if you are in Sudan where majority of the people are black and then a white person goes there and starts living there. Do you really think he will have a peacefull life there ? NO sir. Same thing Muslims here in America are not in Majority forget about counting who is sunni and who is shia. Problem only arises when TWO Majority GROUPS have contradiction on one thing. Americans they dont give 2 sh*ts about what the immigrants should do in their country. As long as there is peace and as long as these people are doing the low jobs such as cabs/gasstation and other stuff they dont care. Yes i do agree all the muslim countries should run on the basics of that are govern in the statues of US. Like as stated in their consitution there shouldnt be no slaves and how there shouldnt be no black and white sepration. But i have to say i was in Saudia Aarab in 2001 for omrah and OH MY GOD the arabs think that they are the lords. They do such discrimination against the immigrants like pakisatnis. You cant buy land you cant work without having an arab as partner. You cant have the citizenship of Saudia arabia. And i mean that is the country from where Prophet Mohammad :saw: said " KISI ARABI KO KISI AJMEE PER KOYE FOQIYAT HASIL NAHI " meaning "NO ARABIC SHOULD HAVE ANY PREFERENCE TO ANY OUTCOMER ( IMMIGRANT ). but sadly there is alot of seperation. You are right at what you are trying to say but you are making your self look like a typical pakistani american who has no idea what islam is all about. And believe me i do respect what you are saying BUT the way you are saying it is making a very wrong impression of how you think about things.
-Salman
It all goes back to the same thing. Whether Hindu christial moslem or atheist, casteism by any name brings discord.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by SalmanNY: *
....But i have to say i was in Saudia Aarab in 2001 for omrah and OH MY GOD the arabs think that they are the lords. They do such discrimination against the immigrants like pakisatnis. -Salman
[/QUOTE]
Salman
This is EXACTLY the point im trying to make
Where do u see an American treating another on the basis of his/her religion
The ONLY criteria of becoming an Israeli citizen is for one to be a jew...why cant the center of the muslim ummah..i.e. SA...allow other muslims to be itz citizens
This is the crux: If ppl of other faiths can be united...WHY the hell cant we bcom one too! If we all can live in a foreign land in peace...y cant we do the same in our muslim homelands!
^ why do you look to religion for the uniting influence? Over centiries religion has clearly proved incapable of it. Take away religion and 90+% of conflict amongst humans will be gone.
Politics by definition is the art & science of governing. Sounds great, but if someone calls you a politician today, do you take it as a compliment or insult? (it's a compliment only if you're a worse crook).
///ly religion is "A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion". Now, if someone comes and calls you a zealot, do you take it as a compliment or insult?
My view is, our circumstances - living conditions, ability to communicate, assimilate knowledge, availability of choices for material and non-material things etc have come to such a state that any religion that attempts to dictate mechanics, rituals and thoughts have become liabilities.
If we do not understand and update our reason for why we repose faith in something, then we're taking medication for a disease we don't have, eating food that our body cannot digest and breathing vapours that we cannot use.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by farhanDaMan: *
Salman
This is EXACTLY the point im trying to make
Where do u see an American treating another on the basis of his/her religion
The ONLY criteria of becoming an Israeli citizen is for one to be a jew...why cant the center of the muslim ummah..i.e. SA...allow other muslims to be itz citizens
This is the crux: If ppl of other faiths can be united...WHY the hell cant we bcom one too! If we all can live in a foreign land in peace...y cant we do the same in our muslim homelands!
[/QUOTE]
I Feel for you farhan, and as i said i do agree with your post but, as muslim its our duty to defend our religion no matter how much we are ashamed of it. Yea a typical muslim might be very ashamed of its religion but a true muslim will still stay proud of who and what he is. You post will just let other muslims think that they are indeed the most troubled religion. Not that i am saying you shouldnt post what is reality but yet showing the reality a liltle side/strength towards your own religion.
-Salman
exactly tommy,
but then the purpose of religion is to get u to the ultimate. but that thing has got diluted with the mechanical n materialistic society n way of life.
it has not dawned on any that religion is just a mean n not the end in itself. when i saw on eof the post here it asks the previous guppy to ask the questions to jews. this sort of " I do coz U do" attritude will get us no where.
jus blaming others for all our sorrows n incompetence is no cure. this would give us temporary solution to our guilt but no real solution is possible.
even the problem b/w india n pakistan i think is that v r not out of the legacy of division of electorate in british rule n its bad taste.
pampering a particular society on the basis of religion created a seperate country n perennial problem.
Seems like quite a lotta mature folks exist on this board
but, within 'em some immature folks keep deleting relevant posts...like yesterday...i posted an inquiry as to whoz responsible for deleting posts.....and, instead of acting like a grownup and answering...the person(s) deleted that post too
im sure..this post will meet a similar end
but wanna know WTF is going on?????
I’m sorry.
I just have to pick your brain a bit.
As an American I don’t find many immigrant gas station owners feeling ashamed about owning a gas station. In fact, I wished I owned one.
As a matter of fact there isn’t an immigrant gas station in my neighborhood, though there is an immigrant Dairy Queen.
If my family feels the need for ice cream..I go there, because I want happiness and success for those neighbors.
Reason why I hope happiness and success for those neighbors is because I know they had it rough, yet the family worked together and created a viable business.
I find them an inspiration. A positive.
Owning a gas station, working at a gas station in my thinking is not low class, but an opportunity for sucess. One has to start someplace and the neat thing is that if one has the where-with-all and gumption..one can succeed no matter what line of work pursued.
So firstly I would like to ask..what is wrong with owning a small business?
No education, poverty and corrupt leadership is the cause. It just so happens that most Muslim countries have these traits these days. Is there a Muslim country that is almost 100% educated, has a majority middle class, has a democratic leadership and is highly industrialized? The ones that are closer to this are more open and tolerant.
Religion is truly the opiate for the poor, downtrodden, pverty-stricken, illiterate masses. Religion sells best to those who have lost all hope for a better present life and have only left the hope of a beautiful reward following death. It is often the only card left to play by those in leadership positions who want to hold on to their power and wealth. It provides the last vestige of control over the masses.
The problem with allowing the free exercise of religion amongst the poor, downtrodden, poverty-stricken, illiterate masses is that power and control is lost if you allow free competition of different ideas. The vast majority of people would gladly trade a wonderful afterlife for more food, medicine, shelter and money in this life. Thus, those who can promise only a better afterlife will lose followers and control if they allow a free competition of ideas that might include the promise of both a neat afterlife and a better current one.
MV : Remember, Death is just be the begining.