Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

You seem to have very little understanding of science. And jumped in to evolution discussion. :smack: Sorry to be blunt.

Can you read the adaptaion and evolution and find the difference in it?

I can give you a whole detail of how antibiotics even work or what are dfferent ways resistance to antibiotcs can develop. But resistance to Abx is an adaptation process. The bacteria remain the same bacteria.

Thanks for googling but the info does not prove adaptation is an example of evolution!

Did you even bother to read earlier posts on this ludicrous claim that **adaptation means **or adaptation could lead to evolution?

Read above the discussion about E. Coli. :mad:

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Lol... Cowardly response my friend. You dont have the time, but neither do you have the intellectual capacity. Spare me your nonsense next time. I dont have time for your juvenile BS either. Thanks.

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Med.. hats off to your persistence.

To make religion compatible with science your always going to have to modify religious interpretations.. science keeps evolving as we learn more and more.. religion does not.. for anyone to feel that religion is all caught up with science all the time there is no other way but to constantly modify and select your understanding of your religion..

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Well my point was that I dont thikn the Koran can be taken literally.

I answered as to why the use of metaphor earlier. Because how could God have explained complex scientific processes to people living 2000 yrs ago? They could never fathomed such concepts of creation, when they didnt even understand the very basics of creation… As the Prophet PBUH himself said, " Speak to people according to their level of understanding…" So the Prophet pbuh would say such, but Allah SWT would explain to illterate bedouin’s using complex scientific notions involving atoms, molecules, all the way up to Nucleic Acids and DNA? He would explain to them at length how evolution works, how mutations occur, how new DNA information is created? How selection operates?
Secondly, why would he explain all this? The intent of the Quran is not to work as a science manual… The intent is to provide mankind with a guide to living their lives. Its book of morals, of spiritual concepts, not scientific notions. If God truly wanted us to understand the Universe in scientific terms, he would have explained everything in detail, but he hasnt. Instead, gathering knowledge of the Universe is presented as an imperative for ever Muslim, because God does not present for us in detail himself.

Now your abstaining from having an opinion, but for science to progress we do not have the luxury of standing on the side lines. Some do perhaps, but you as a scientist do not. You and other scientists, of multiple fields, to better understand the natural world, must, considering the evidence as it presents itself, assume it is fact. And as any credible scientist will tell you, the theory, compliments their study immensely, and in fact, without it, their understanding of all these disciplines would collapse.

As far as proven or not. I would think it is inevitable from a genetic standpoint. But as I stated, the evidence you ask for is impossible to find. We would need a time machine to watch creatures evolving before our eyes, at least in the sense that your referring to.
Now I compared evolution to your assumption that your faith is irrefutable because in both cases, a set of evidence is presented. However in the case of religion, that evidence is enough for you to assume its factual, but in the case of evolution you are still straddling the wall? And lets face it, in the realm of beliefs, evolution and religion are simply two beliefs. One you choose to believe, the other not.

I dont agree with atheists who poo poo creationist beliefs… They are atheists in the purest sense.

I for one feel there is room for god even in evolution. I do not think evolution contradicts our concept of God.
Evolution does not pertain to how we were created on a molecular level. It does not answer any of the philosophical questions as regards creation.

Just because such atheists exist, does not mean that evolution is nullified by their beliefs.

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Peace Med911

I was going to let you have the last say on this occasion because I have said I all I wanted to say ... my previous post to you was all about clarifying to you that I didn't contradict my position and it seems that you have accepted that with your response, the length of which was unnecessary repetition ... however you intrigue me with your conviction about the Word of God ... you seem to have a lot to say about what the Qur'an actually is ...

To me Al-Qur'an is "sheer knowledge and the highest truth" - Truth is both literal and metaphoric ... what we need is context to ascertain which and in some cases both are implied ... The Qur'an has two main properties ... for those who do not need to be convinced that it is The Word of God for them there is much guidance and wisdom in it ... however it has another dimension, it has within it a means to show itself as from Divine source ... it confirms itself ... it does this through a number of routes one of which is revelation, another is prophecy ... in the case of prophecy it foretells a future event and in the case of revelation even when these are being read and looked at we don't see them they are present yet hidden until that is a scientific discovery is made and then in that light of that discovery the words present themselves in the beauty that they were meant to be seen ... it unlocks secrets as we progress through time ... It is indeed not a scientific manual - a manual has no secrets to unlock ... a manual is clear and "dictates" things - the Qur'an leaves clues.

So my point being that there are quite a few places in the Qur'an that I believe to be scientific notions - without actually explaining those notions scientifically ... In other words some revelations are made that we can only possibly know through scientific discovery.

Examples are:

Khalaq Al-insana min 'alaq

*Created man from a clot *

{There is absolutely no direct guidance in this statement - it is meant to show us who we are dealing with - the knowledge of The One} the guidance indirectly is obtained through conviction that such truths can only be known to God, therefore this Book is from Him.

Surah 21 Ayah 30
Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and We made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?

If this verse is not a scientific notion then please Med911 show me what spiritual guidance is in the bold terms above?

Surah 78 verse 6 and 7

"Have We not made the Earth as a wide expanse and the mountains as pegs?"

{Are you saying that this must be a rhetorical question? And are you saying that the term "pegs" has no scientific significance to the function of mountains? Why would the word "pegs" be used Med911 ... please say what is the spiritual guidance in that statement?}

And there are plenty more ...

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@psyah..

While rejecting evolution outrightly you start ignoring other proven scientific facts as well.. evolution or no evolution.

1) Life forms exist on this planet for last three billion years. The are constantly changing, and the species which existed three billion or two billion or one billion years ago do not exist anymore.

2) Life forms have become more intelligent and complex with the passage of geological time. Again when you want to compare everything in 5000 year time span, and compare humans in their present form it is a scientific dishonesty. This kind of time lapse is insignificant on geological time scale.

3) Your argument that human intelligence has not grown significantly in last 5000 years is partly true. If the intelligence has grown this change must have been so insignificant that it can not be really gauged. What has really grown significantly in last five thousand years is the learning curve of humans. But again as I told you 5,000 years is nothing on geological time scale.

4) If this planet survives for say another billion or two billion years with goldilock (life sustaining) conditions all the present life forms including humans in their present form will become extinct, and the planet will be populated by some other species. And if evolution is true (there is a strong likely hood that it is) than the present genome resource available on this planet will use natural selection to form even more complex/intelligent life forms.

Human advancement has taken place with communication. The fact that all of us have different ideas and discuss/communicate with each other these ideas increases our learning experiences. Had we all carried the same ideas/and thought alike, there would have been very little scientific/intellectual advancement. We basically have inquisitive minds, and constantly explore/challenge presupposed ideas. To restrict these positive trends of human behavior and brand everything as shirk will restrict our intellectual advancement.. and I don't think the Intelligent Designer who has designed us to follow this natural behavior has created us to follow this path..

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Peace bro yazdi

Thanks for prompting another aspect to this discussion. First of all I will like to point at the words above I quoted you in red and in blue … I’m not rejecting evolution outright that is for sure and furthermore you are beginning to formulate a logically fallacious argument … I’ve highlighted the word “other” in blue … if they are other proven scientific facts then how does rejecting evolution bear anything on those other things? Perhaps what you intended to say was that there are scientific facts that are the building blocks of evolution … these facts are utilised by evolution theory and yet not used by creationist versions …

This angle I would like to explore with you more inshaAllah …

  1. You basically alluded to the fossil record which shows that various life forms have lived and died off in the history of life on Earth … however you have said “they are constantly changing” … I need clarification on this … are the species changing or the are the records changing? If it is the records that are changing does it translate to the creatures changing without another explanation?

For the record the Qur’an acknowledges life on Earth before humans arrived … when you look to the conversation Allah (SWT) has with the angels and they are intrigued about humans being made worthy of their sujood, and to be representatives on Earth they mentioned that creatures like us caused bloodshed and fitnah …

  1. As for more intelligent species coming later and less intelligent coming before … or developed in evolution … then I need to introduce to you the newest discoveries of new species … none of which are are anywhere near as intelligent as a dog let alone a human …

Please read this link of various “new” life forms discovered … now it may indicate that they were always there but just not discovered but it could also mean before they did not exist and now they do … going by a logical argument it would be unsound to assume the something less evolved or intelligent will be discovered now compared to the intelligence of say a dinosaur … now compare these creatures that have been found with an extinct creature a dinosaur called a velociraptor …

**Velociraptor: A fast running, bipedal dinosaur, Velociraptor, whose name means “Speedy Thief”, was about 5 to 6 ft long, 3 ft tall and may have weighed about 15 to 33 pounds. It lived in Cretaceous period, about 85 - 80 mya.
A Velociraptor’s stiff tail could only move up and down close to the body, where it can bend nearly 90 degrees straight up and was useful for balance.
Perhaps the most unique feature among all raptors (DROMAEOSAURIDS) is the sharp, sickle shaped claw (a second toe), that is hyper-extendable and which was used to grasp and to rip the flesh of its prey.

Velociraptor’s intelligence (as measured by its relative brain to body weight) was the highest among the dinosaurs. However, this does not mean that a Velociraptor would be capable of opening a door! It’s EQ (encephalization quotient, which is brain weight) was less than 0.20 which means its intelligence is equivalent to a modern day ostrich. Certainly, it was not as smart as a chimpanzee, nor could it do the amazing things shown to us in the movie, nevertheless it was probably the smartest dinosaur. (That certainly makes a person wonder what level of intelligence a a Brachiosaurus had)!

It is believed that Velociraptors did, in fact, hunt in packs, as portrayed in the Jurassic Park movies.

**So I would say here are examples of less intelligent beings coming in to existence now and more advanced that had died off many years ago.

The reason for using 5000 years of human hisotry was because pre-5000 years ago is considered pre-historic which means we can’t rely on writings to tell us what happened.

  1. You say that human intelligence has grown … I say that it has not … we can’t see signs of it that you admit, but then you expect me to believe you that the shift in intelligence is so small we can’t detect it … This is not a scientific statement … it is a belief that you are presenting to me … scientifically there is no measure to prove it is happening at all. To illustrate my point let’s take the early man say of 40,000 years ago we have a good idea of what he wore and what he must have done to live … how can we measure the intelligence of those people? If brain size is anything to go by … there is absolutely NO change to brain size … in fact after seeing that large amounts of time (geological time) that is there are no changes some scientists have also proposed or concluded that evolution does not occur gradually but it happens in jumps … to me there is no change that is the observation … explaining why that is a matter of opinion.

  2. The blasé use of the term “goldilocks conditions” shows that there is little appreciation at the miracle of life on Earth … anyway … the further assumption made here is that given enough time development will occur so much that there will come life forms which are godlike …

I acknowledge that life existed on Earth for many years … but I cannot believe in evolution unless there is proof.

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Human and the human inteligence has not changed over time.

Things around us have changed, based on discoveries and new inventions from 'same intelligence' what we possesed in the past.

Wheels and rockets, both were invented because of observations by same brain. The difference in time does not mean intelligence of mankind was evolved.

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

  1. The life forms are “changing” on this planet, as the passage of geological time.. Species which existed 2/3 billion years ago do not exist anymore. Species which exist today did not exist in the past.. Although evolution is not a conclusively proven scientific fact, but this changing of life forms/species is a proven fact beyond a shadow of doubt.

  2. Generally the life forms have become more complex and intelligent over the passage of geological time.. and this is also a proven scientific fact. The early life forms were simple microbes/bacteria which inhibited the planet.

  3. Evolution through natural selection is not conclusively proven as a scientific fact, but regarded as the best possible explanation human have ever come forward with to explain the above mentioned proven scientific facts/changes…

My position is as my previous posts.. there is no science in scriptures unless you let your imagination really go wild. For me you are committing the same fallacy with the above mentioned example..

Again you are committing a very big scientific fallacy by comparing apples with oranges. Still a vast majority of life forms on our planet our microbes. These microbes are also not the same compared to microbes of distant geological time.

If evolution is conclusively not proven, it is also conclusively not disapproved. There is a concept of natural selection as far as evolution is concerned. Natural selection of better survival genes for mutation means the species evolve differently from each other as per their requirements through a process of natural selection.

The term “life forms becoming more complex and intelligent” should be understood for each individual species as their requirements are instead of comparing dogs with cats.

“The difference between you and I is that you have already drawn conclusion of the scientific exploration based on your faith, while I am open minded to any logical conclusion as per scientific indications. Although you perfectly understand these basic scientific findings, but would like to twist them to meet your ultimate desired goal/conclusion.. thus comparing simple species of present times with complex species of past times to prove your already fixed conclusion..”

I am saying generally intelligence and complexity of species is growing. Whether there was a significant increase in human intelligence or not in last five thousand years is not a conclusive evidence to reject evolution.. as I pointed out that these time spans on geological time scales are insignificant.

Just the existence of human beings is an evidence of this growing intelligence. The fact that never in the past 3 billion year history of life forms on this planet, any specie as intelligent as human beings ever existed.

If evolution is true.. and there is a necessity by humans to use more and more of their brains.. who knows our specie will evolve in to something more complex and intelligent through natural selection by our genes.. in due course of geological times..

Let’s define miracle before you use this term to make your point.
For me a miracle is something which goes against the laws of nature to achieve a certain specific objective.
In this case I made a reference to goldilock conditions for sustenance of life forms as a law of nature.
Miracle will happen when life forms are discovered outside these goldilock condition.
So please don’t use science to prove your already fixed agendas. These are the things which make literal religious minded people really look dishonest when they perform these mental acrobats for preaching religion as per their understanding…

To assume that evolution is suggesting that with ample lapse of geological time godlike creatures will be evolved.. is never suggested by evolutionist.. but anti evolutionist would make this kind of accusation to criticize the evolution..

Most of the scientific community is agnostic about things which they can not comprehend with their present mental capacity. I think it is more honest approach compared to literal religionist who have answers for everything with or without logic..

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Peace bro yazdi

You've practically said the same thing back to me ... LOL ... I'll explain again my first question only ... based on your point number 1.

Are you sure that "life forms are changing"? Don't you really mean to say that "the fossil records are changing"?

*life forms changing vs fossil records changing
*
the type of life forms available today were not available in the past and the ones in the past are not around today ... I agree with this ... However there are two possibilities for this drift in the fossil record.

a) That life forms in the past "changed" to "become" the life forms of the present.
b) That life forms of the past "died off" and "new" ones came in their place.

The fossil record is unable to show which a) or b) is correct ... because it is unable to say which is correct there is no way we can say for sure that life forms of the past changed to become new life forms the ones we see today. In some cases we may be looking at natural selection variants of the SAME species, but look quite different, but all in all we will never know for sure because fossils do not have preserved DNA and we can't take fossils to mate with modern creatures to see if they can reproduce.

So I am quite careful when I say "changing of life forms" what you are really observing is a variance in fossil record. Then to say not always is it a smooth variance there are some shocking changes in the fossil record as well.

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

It makes sense that simple life forms were around before other life forms on the basis that other life forms feed off the simple ones ... It is less to do with the idea of evolution and more to do with the idea of Divine balance. It would be strange to put a horse on the Earth, before grass. It does not mean that a horse evolved from grass.

The food chain is a good sign of Divine presence to explain why more a "complex" creature will come in to being after the simple ones. The simple ones are actually only simple in terms of being smaller or having fewer organs ... however their functions are quite involved, such as photosynthesis and storing energy in terms of organic calorific value. It is as though they were being bred to feed the next creature in the food chain, and then in turn higher and higher again.

Then there is an oversimplication of your simple microbes first then other creatures scenario ... Firstly simple microbes are still around today and many of the same ones that have been around for millions of years ago are still around - they have not died off ... The creatures that died off are not the simple microbes ... they were very complex creatures that died off. Fungal spores and bacteria have always been around ... some forms may have gone and been replaced with other forms ... that is to say new types of simple creatures have come in to existence many years after complex creatures were starting to appear.

Such creatures will always be needed because they break up organic matter in to a form that can be utilised by life forms such as plants that need to be a food source for higher life forms ... If the simple ones were not there we could be and if they were still not there then we would not be here.

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Furthermore it is my belief that the most perfect Creature of Allah (SWT) is the prophet Muhammad (SAW) ... on this I can say nothing can match him. To reinterpret this will be a fundamental alteration to our religious understandings.

1) We are Ashraf-Al-Makhluqaat
2) He (SAW) was the best amongst us, in every way.

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

@psyah bhai,

How can I say in a more simpler English. I am talking about changes in life forms.. not the changes in fossil records. Fossil records just indicate these changes. Again and again you are resorting to circular reasoning by implying something from my post which I don't mean or ever said.

You claim to be a student of science yet deliberately ignore the fact that fossil record indicate that life forms have changed in geological history of this planet. In more than half of the geological life of the planet the only life forms populating the planet were only bacteria and microbes. With the lapse of geological time more complex life forms have come on the scene.. and are constantly being replaced by new species.. and it is this change I am talking about. You don't believe evolution is not conclusively true.. Agreed.. there can be another phenomenon r esponsible for this change which we can not comprehend or understand presently..** doesn't mean there is no change as there is a lot of evidence indicating these changes..** or it is a change like literal interpretation of scripture. This should not be an attitude of a science scholar that you should have pre concluded ideas and should twist science to fit them.

From your post you give an impression that only fossil record available is that of dinosaurs. There is a whole lot of fossil record from microbes/bacteria which can exactly be dated using radioactive dating methods with precision. How half life of radio active isotopes is determined for such dating, I can explain it to you.. although its not the topic of the thread, but believe me it is very accurate and precise.

[quote]

It makes sense that simple life forms were around before other life forms on the basis that other life forms feed off the simple ones ... It is less to do with the idea of evolution and more to do with the idea of Divine balance. It would be strange to put a horse on the Earth, before grass. It does not mean that a horse evolved from grass.

The food chain is a good sign of Divine presence to explain why more a "complex" creature will come in to being after the simple ones. The simple ones are actually only simple in terms of being smaller or having fewer organs ... however their functions are quite involved, such as photosynthesis and storing energy in terms of organic calorific value. It is as though they were being bred to feed the next creature in the food chain, and then in turn higher and higher again.

Then there is an oversimplication of your simple microbes first then other creatures scenario ... Firstly simple microbes are still around today and many of the same ones that have been around for millions of years ago are still around - they have not died off ... The creatures that died off are not the simple microbes ... they were very complex creatures that died off. Fungal spores and bacteria have always been around ... some forms may have gone and been replaced with other forms ... that is to say new types of simple creatures have come in to existence many years after complex creatures were starting to appear.

Such creatures will always be needed because they break up organic matter in to a form that can be utilised by life forms such as plants that need to be a food source for higher life forms ... If the simple ones were not there we could be and if they were still not there then we would not be here.
[/quote]

Simple life forms/complex life forms all different from the species of past. Some of the life forms are simple microbes only mean that they are less different from the species of the past, but doesn't mean that they are same according to geological evidence available to us.

Now again you are committing a huge scientific fallacy by implying that simpler life forms came in to existence before the complex forms to provide food to them. This is again an example of twisting science to meet your pre concluded literal scripture conclusions. This kind of attitude does not suit a science scholar. One one hand you do not believe in evolution with strong indication of the reason for changes in life forms.. but on the other hand make a sweeping statement about the only purpose for earlier simpler life forms to suit your literal scripture agenda.
What if evolution is true.. and the earlier simpler forms were common ancestors of simpler/complex life forms of present time..

[quote]
Furthermore it is my belief that the most perfect Creature of Allah (SWT) is the prophet Muhammad (SAW) ... on this I can say nothing can match him. To reinterpret this will be a fundamental alteration to our religious understandings.

1) We are Ashraf-Al-Makhluqaat
2) He (SAW) was the best amongst us, in every way.
[/quote]

I have recognized God by the laws of nature which are exact, precise, and do not deviate from their basic nature. You have deliberately avoided my question about miracles. For me the only miracle I can see is the presence of these laws of nature from nothingness. If that is the miracle you are attributing to God, I am in full agreement with you. Other than that I don't believe God operates through miracles bypassing these laws created by Him. There is no indication or proof in this direction.

The problem with your approach is that you are a literal religionist (in spite of the fact that sometimes you deny it to score a debate point or avoid an embarrassing situation) . If you accept evolution, it will be in contradiction with the literal interpretation of the scripture as you will be forced to believe that in some billion years of continued evolution, more complex species compared to humans may evolve.

If evolution is the law of nature made by God to create/modify life forms.. then the nature will follow it's course... Life forms were created on this planet only.. they did not arrive from anywhere.. It's true we do not fully understand how our planet is getting more and more complex life forms with the lapse of geological times. Let's explore the reasons without pre concluding anything.. instead of going backward and trying to fit everything according to these pre concluded assumption i.e if you want to remain a science scholar.. otherwise there are other choices in life to become monks, mullahs, priests, rabbis etc. etc. Just don't fool people and yourself that your are a student of science....

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Peace again yazdi

I really need to understand this point perhaps you are right I may be missing something ... please explain to me how can we tell life forms have changed by studying the fossil record? What is it in the fossil record that we can use that suggests specimen A is the ancestor of specimen B and is changed to such a degree that if they were to mate they would not produce offspring ...

You are right ... I am a student of science so please explain this to me ... I have not understood what you have understood about fossils and if I can then perhaps I can change my view about evolution ... Please explain to me what it is I need to look for. I only want to speak about this point and nothing else ... this is the most fundamental issue it seems ... so I need to understand it.

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Two stories one scene ...

An excavator cut away the side of a cliff face and saw lots of creatures in it ... on the bottom were fish like animals and above them were similar looking fish but bigger and then after another layer of soil there were remains of reptiles and then another layer higher there were what looked like mammal remains ...

*Two men were asked to interpret the scene ...
*
Man 1 - Long ago there were fish, they became bigger and then they stopped going in the water and became this reptile and then the reptile became this mammal ... and there is our story ...

Man 2 - Long ago this place was full of water and these fish like animals came along ... then another fish species competed with them and ate up all of their supply causing the indigenous population of fish to die ... later the water dried up and they too died out and the area became inhabited by reptiles who needed only slight water conditions they travelled from another place to get here ... then this area became quite busy with forests and the reptiles chose other areas to go and in moved the mammals ... in each era the remains of what lived here have been preserved ...

The excavator had a dilemma he didn't know which of the two stories was more or less credible ... he then decided to see if any of the animals CHANGED infront of him and Man 1 said to him no - it's too slow to see the changes. But we can see animals moving from place to place, migrating and resettling in our own life times said Man 2 ... surely my version is more credible?

The problem was that Man 1 had lots of money and sold his story and lots of people listened to him because he was rich ...

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Human beings, cats, dogs, elephants exist now.. they did not exist before.. In the same way the species which existed before have become extinct now.. you don't need to check or get in to a discussion of fossil records to know this certain fact of science..

I am merely trying to draw your attention to this fact .. that the life forms have changed..

How, I don't know...

I never suggested these changes due to evolution as a fact of science. I never suggested that the same life forms have changed in to newer versions.. I am merely pointing out to you that we have more complex life forms today compared to the geological historical times.. why.. I don't know.. how.. I don't know.. but they have, and that's a fact..

Whenever I have referred to evolution.. I have always mentioned it as a possibility. Please read again all my posts from the beginning on this topic from post 431.. never in one post I have posted something which says one specie for certain has changed in to another.. I always presented it as a possibility..

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

Aha ... so you are saying that the life forms available today are DIFFERENT from the life forms available many years ago ... Yes, it is all semantics ... You see when I see the words "changed" to me it seems you are saying that the species changes - but you are not saying that ... what you are saying however is that animals alive today are DIFFERENT from the past ...

Yes ... yes I can agree with that ... In the UK there used to be red squirrels around everywhere and then over the recent 100 years or so grey squirrels that were introduced to compete with the red have totally dominated and taken over ... Now with the bones in the soil we will see that the red squirrels came first and then the grey ones ... so the thing we know for sure in this case is that the two species are different and competed and didn't evolve from one another, but with fossils we don't even know what they are because we can't analyse their DNA.

We have more complex life forms today that is for sure ... but we still have the basic ones as well ... and when we look at the new life forms that are being discovered they are not complex they are quite simple ... complex life forms feed off simpler ones so it makes sense that simple life forms come first. It would be impossible for a new animal to survive if it didn't have a food source. Then when there are more complex creatures around they will compete for the same food source and hence some will be wiped out and others will prosper ... we can see this happen in front of us ... however when it comes to fossils why do we conclude that the story is any different? Why do we say that one animal evolved to another? Just because the fossil record allows this interpretation - what makes that interpretation "highly likely"? Why is it more likely than the non-evolution equivalent.

My point is not argue with you about evolution ... but even in the aspects that are "proven" we have multiple reasons for them ... there is no reason why my version can't be true ... according to the current level of research and understanding regarding fossils and zoology.

Looking back at your posts I can quote where you have presented a preference for evolution - you have presented it as a probability - highly likely ... I'm not being close minded to it ... I just need to understand how it all works as a man of science I have a need to understand the theories that are being presented.

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

^I haven't had a chance to go through the entire thread but it's my understanding that most Muslims don't even understand or attempt to understand evolution.They outright deny it without even exploring the idea. However, I have come across Muslims that do believe in evolution but' they have their own interpretations of how evolution works.

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

It's my understanding that most non-Muslims believe in evolution without understanding it. Because science or Dawkin's tell them they should.

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Re: Why are Muslims against Evolution?!?

I am not a scholar by any means but this is my understanding of evolution and it makes more sense than any religious version of the genesis. Evolution in the simplest terms is all about mutations. In my opinion evolution has been scientifically proven over and over again but some people just dont get it. There's no missing link as a lot of you claim. Let's think about one thing here: there are more than 6 billion people on this planet. So you really believe that a of us are the same? Is it really that hard to imagine that some of us have special qualities that set us apart? There is a man that can withstand extreme temperature change without affecting his body temperature. Now let's take global warming as an example of a catastrophe on earth: if climate
changes for the worst and people all over th globe start dying fast, this man will survive. if he reproduces, some of his kids will inherit his genes and will have the same special quality. Gene mutation has to start somewhere to set off this new mutant group of specie so it doesn't reject the idea of god but contradicts with most scriptures. It doesn't get any simpler than this. I also think Einstein was an evolved human being, different from the rest of us. I bet you if he were alive today and we ran some tests on him, we would find that he was a mutant. :D