^ Jo, that’s probably the best way to be. I’d like to think though that it was not as straight forward as being for one or the other, I don’t like schisms and prefer to give things due consideration. Brian Greene, physicist, said something along the lines of; ‘sometimes attaining deepest familiarity with a question is our best substitute for actually having the answer’.
La Parisienne, a supreme being other than the one the various religions offer? A non interventionist God, as it were. Or, we’re an alien lab experiment?
Gidsa, smooch
Psyah, I can appreciate the underlying issues. Scepticism is a good thing, but I generally don’t think evolution need be that big a concern in the context of things, the various abiogenesis studies may be another matter.
Everything has a process, we start as sperm and go through various stages until death, and heck after death we’ll eventually become tomorrow’s fossil fuel. Figuring out what the process is and how it works should not undermine one’s faith about who put the process into place.
About evolution being a belief system, it depends on how you are defining ‘belief system’ - I’m going to leave it at that because I don’t want to be here for another fourteen pages, darn it! : D
Diwana, facepalm. Distinguishing between unicellular and multicellular does not mean to say that the unicellular is not complex.
You & I are failing to communicate. I don’t know how to fix that. It may be time for a divorce.
Thanks for that … For the remaining people here … If we really are prepared to delve in deep to work out what is going on we will see that neither scientists or anyone else really knows. What I mean by “belief system” is that hold something to be true without being able to demonstrate it to be so. Such is the case with evolution. Coming back to the original question why do Muslim have a problem with evolution … well for one we already have a perfectly plausible belief system of our own and furthermore our version takes in to account our moral obligation … evolution does not.
In terms of which to choose … well it does not matter … if one is Muslim one must believe in Creation (without necessarily knowing the mechanism of that Creation) and that Adam and Eve are the parents of humanity. Everything else is just background noise. According to the Quran if Allah so Wills He says to something Be and it is.
Coming back to the entropy topic … when things are left alone they will disintegrate and fall apart … look at this …
It has taken a lot of effort and conscious thought to synthesise a simple gene which is an intermediate for the production of proteins. It was a tRNA strand. Throughout the whole process it was under constant control and intelligent processing. Yet evolutionists expect us to believe that such complex molecules can form all by themselves given enough time. That is just not true.
And let’s ASSUME that such genes can somehow come about and there is a soup of DNA and proteins. What is it that turns that into a single celled organism that seeks out nourishment and eats material to survive? There is absolutely no way this can be done let alone by chance. If I leave a load of proteins around they will not start to work together for the sake of it. Yet, latest studies are suggesting that microbes were once divorced from their mitochondria and two microbes the precursor to the mitochondrian and the precursor to the container cell - fell in love together - and through a symbiotic relationship evolved into a single-celled organism … Yet nothing can be said about how the first “meal” was prepared. What microbial process is the barrier between organic cells to a life form and how is that barrier transgressed?
No everyone know that if I put a pile of enzymes even in a pot or in some favourable environment where no other microbes exist then that soup will remain soup it will not become alive. In the sense that it seeks out sustenance and grows and excretes, etc - just like an ecoli would do.
Evolution is a belief system - and it is popular because it is secular and undermines religion and even God, the lie is that evolution is science that it is a fact!
But remember what the Qur’an says … Surah 21 Verse 18
Pickthall: Nay, but We hurl the true against the false, and it doth break its head and lo! it vanisheth. And yours will be woe for that which ye ascribe (unto Him).
Yusuf Ali: Nay, We hurl the Truth against falsehood, and it knocks out its brain, and behold, falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false) things ye ascribe (to Us).
Shakir: Nay! We cast the truth against the falsehood, so that it breaks its head, and lo! it vanishes; and woe to you for what you describe;
O mankind! A similitude has been coined, so listen to it (carefully): Verily, those on whom you call besides Allah, cannot create (even) a fly, even though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly snatches away a thing from them, they will have no power to release it from the fly. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought. (Surah Al-Hajj 22:73)
i don’t think you have a basic understanding of the pelvic region and its connection to the limbs. since you love Wikipedia, just check out bipedalism or the normal method of locomotion for gorillas, which they are predisposed to because of their anatomy and ultimately genetic makeup.
oh just to let you know, if you study this particular family you can see that there are other gorillas that have evolved to walk this way.
you would not be making sucha ridiculous comeback if you had a basic understanding of these things.
carry on with your verbosity which holds NO value.
im sure you’re one of those who believe the “carpet found flying after hearing azaan” youtube vids.
It's not about belief or disbelief, as evolution is a fact! If a person does not accept evolution, then they simply do not understand it or it's because evolution contradicts their religion and they don't want to ever believe in it due to that.
Just because evolution is a theory, does not mean it's not a fact because a scientific theory can be a fact. Gravity is a theory and fact just like evolution is a theory and fact. If you don't accept evolution due to it being a theory, then fine do not accept gravity either. :p
This post and the one before summed up the amount of knowledge you really have on evolution as a subject. First of all Gorillas will not evolve into humans; according to the THEORY they have both evolved away from each other from a common ancestor. Because some Gorillas stand up and choose to walk instead of knuckle their way along it does not mean that they are evolving in to bipeds. As far as I am concerned Gorillas have always been able to ‘walk’ on their rear limbs.
There is absolutely no indication that Ambam (The name of that Gorilla) is structurally different to any other Gorilla and that is the reason why I posted the video of that dog …
“Species close to the last common ancestor of gorillas, chimpanzees and humans may be represented by Nakalipithecus fossils found in Kenya and Ouranopithecus found in Greece. Molecular evidence suggests that between 8 and 4 million years ago, first the gorillas, and then the chimpanzees (genus Pan) split off from the line leading to the humans”
In terms of ridiculous come backs … well I think you take the biscuit. I was merely being ironic with my penultimate post. And as for flying carpets … I’m undecided on that for the time being … hehehe … besides it’s a bit of a red-herring topic and a bit of an ad-hominem don’t you think … I hope you don’t think by hurling off-the-wall insinuations at me I’ll run away.
It's not about belief or disbelief, as evolution is a fact! If a person does not accept evolution, then they simply do not understand it or it's because evolution contradicts their religion and they don't want to ever believe in it due to that.
Just because evolution is a theory, does not mean it's not a fact because a scientific theory can be a fact. Gravity is a theory and fact just like evolution is a theory and fact. If you don't accept evolution due to it being a theory, then fine do not accept gravity either. :p
Peace Unos
I think you mean Gravity is a fact and Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation is a model for the behaviour of it and likewise you are trying to say that evolution is a fact and Darwin's Theory is a model that maps it in a similar sense ... You would be right of course if we could measure evolution like we can measure gravity. On that premise alone your analogy is flawed. Gravity is objectively seen - Evolution is not, the best we have is a fossil record. Besides at least Newton came up with a theory that could be proven - hence it became a law.
the only reason why you have no issues accepting it as some universal law (which it is clearly not), is because there is no literal verse in scripture that seems to get in the way of gulping this bit down as science.
............Diwana, facepalm. Distinguishing between unicellular and multicellular does not mean to say that the unicellular is not complex.
You & I are failing to communicate. I don't know how to fix that. It may be time for a divorce.
..............
El topo,
I am disappointed. :(
You did not give answer point by point again.
Never once you have given any strong reason why you think evolution is something beyond theory.
Liking cartoons and making comments to entertain crowd does not count. ;)
It's not about belief or disbelief, as evolution is a fact! If a person does not accept evolution, then they simply do not understand it or it's because evolution contradicts their religion and they don't want to ever believe in it due to that.
Just because evolution is a theory, does not mean it's not a fact because a scientific theory can be a fact. Gravity is a theory and fact just like evolution is a theory and fact. If you don't accept evolution due to it being a theory, then fine do not accept gravity either. :p
Gravity is a theory?
Who told you that? ( I know your possible answer and where you might have got this idea. ;) )
Hint: A theory is where overwhelming evidence is lacking but an idea (right or wrong) is put forward in support of something observed.
the only reason why you have no issues accepting it as some universal law (which it is clearly not), is because there is no literal verse in scripture that seems to get in the way of gulping this bit down as science.
ps: evolution is real. peace. ;) :D
Peace queer
Newton's Laws are as true as they need to be in order to a) Predict the effect of two bodies interacting with one another and b) Visually observe the phenomenon in practice - demonstrable.
Evolution be it the theory or the alleged phenomenon lacks both these ... In the case of gravity we discuss what is it that causes things to move towards one another, in the case of evolution we first need to convince ourselves that one creature comes from another before we start to think about how that process takes place.
peace, psyah. from reading your reply i think you aren't at all familiar with the idea of rigor in proof, nor the scientific method.
Newton's laws have never been proven - i.e., it has never been shown conclusively that if I had two masses in my hand at 10 pm tomorrow, they'll behave in such a manner. They have been disproved on several occasions. Newtonian mechanics is at best a crude approximation that fails to predict the behavior of matter at most scales in this universe. But you are convinced of it being the truth because umm.. i don't know.. my guess is an inability to comprehend what the theory states, and what is meant by conclusive evidence.
Evolution has demonstrable proof. Speciation has happened under human observation enough times to count as proof, especially if your acceptance as proof is as lax as what you mention for Newton's laws. Also, evolution is a lot more complex than Newton's laws which can be explained in three lines, and umm... which you don't seem to comprehend fully to see they are just a small range approximation. I find it hard to believe you even realize what evolution is.
The only reason why you are bending over backwards to dispute evolution is because you choose to interpret scripture literally, and it contradicts reality. Which can be hard to reconcile.
I think it should be either Evolution or Religion.
Allah/God/Bhagwan is/are a different domain altogether. His/Her existence isnt threatened by either evolution or religion.
Has science proved yet that human race has evolved from monkeys. They have not found a single fossil that can prove it. The hominid and other prehistoric characters were brain child of this special clan of scientists (in last 4 centuries) who were after the church dominance. They achieved the goal to derail church in most of the Europe but despite of sophisticated technology in last 50 years, they have not got a single evidence. There have been claims of fossils found of human like creature in Ethiopia, Siberia and Central Europe, but nothing has brought to the public and put to independent research to put this discussion to rest, once and for all. This alone shows that scientists, while may be right on some part of evolution in animals where their anatomy changes over thousands of years due to special circumstances and environmental changes, but no evidence of human evolution.
^^ Well your understanding of evolution and your assumption is wrong.
humans didnt come down from monkeys, evolution doesnt say that. it says that monkeys and humans came down from the same species.
Amyways there are more evidences of ebolution then adam and eves. till date in last 2000 years no person scientist or religous teacher couldnt bring forth anything that can even give a hint that adam and eve were real.
Peace philosophy