Just wondering?? In Bremer’s recent joint press briefing with Powell he was boasting of their success in pumping oil. Of the cash raised, he said 95% is going to reconstruction efforts and 5% to pay Kuwait reparations for the 1991 war.
Well the bulk of the gound force pushed off from there into Iraq, I suppose they need to re-stock the burger vans and get a new coat of paint on the brothels in Kuwait City.
This is BS. Iraq has been paying reparation costs for the first 'Gulf War' since 1991. They've been paying and paying and paying; initially, 30% of their revenues from the OFF programme used to go into this, then it was reduced to 20% i think. Now it's still 5%.
What the heck does Kuwait need reparation costs for besides building more palaces for their incestuous monarchy. The 5% that's going to Kuwait should be diverted towards reconstructing hospitals in Iraq, rebuilding the sewage infrastructure. Heck use it to remove the piles of garbage that have piled up on Baghdad's streets. Kuwaiti government has no need for the money. Iraq needs it far more desperately.
But 95% is already going to Iraqi reconstruction! That would be greedy of them to want all 100% to provide the most basic services that they lost due to a tyrannical leader and inept world governance!
Seriously, how much in the way of reparations are Iraqis getting (payments to individuals)? Did they not suffer under Saddam? What are those who were wrongly affected by the allies (ones who lost family in raids, bombing, disease due to sanctions, etc) in the war getting?
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Originally posted by spoon: *
**What are those who were wrongly affected by the allies (ones who lost family in raids, bombing, disease due to sanctions, etc) in the war getting?
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Sorry for the previous answer. i was in a bit of a bad mood:o i don't know how much the average Iraqi is "getting" in terms of actual expenditure or rations. During Hussein's regime, they were entitled to a certain amount in rations, and i think the yearly spending on them under the OFF programme was something like, approximately, $200/year, (not entirely certain about this, i would have to double check it). i don't know how anyone lives on $200 a year and still maintains their physical/mental dignity.
Anyhow, it's a very interesting question.
Maybe, it would make sense if all of Iraq's reparation debts were wiped off entirely. Analogies with the punishing economic terms of the Versailles Treaty, and its long-term repercussions, could easily be made.
Saddam's Iraq invaded Kuwait, and caused a whole deal of damage. Then the royals of Kuwait allowed their territory to be used as a base for the Anglo-American terrorists to bomb Iraq, and cause untold damage. I think the balance sheet is clear, the Kuwaiti's should get lost.
Why is post-Sassam Iraqi being made to pay for Saddam's decision?
^^ the same reason post Hitler Germans were made to pay for Hitler's decisions.
The U.S. has suggested Iraqi debt be canceled. Russia and Europe oppose such a thing.
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*Originally posted by underthedome: *
The U.S. has suggested Iraqi debt be canceled. Russia and Europe oppose such a thing.
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cause US will still be pumping oil and can get back new debt "so called re construction of IRAQ"
while russia and EU will not get anything from its previous loan to IRAq.
Thats the reason!
Its US who destroyed the IRaQ infrastructure and they can also afford to pay, they should pay for re construction!
Sadam was bad guy to opposers, but he maintaned a nearly first world services and infrastructure in IRAQ.
it was destroyed by sanctions and two WARs.
surely US is not there for re construction for IRAq is it?
Under Saddam Iraq's infrastructure was neglected and in poor condition.
You bough the ticket, you knew what you were getting into, now it;s time to crash. What is so hard to understand. Iraq lost the war. Agreed to pay, so why bitch and moan.
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Originally posted by underthedome: *
**Under Saddam Iraq's infrastructure was neglected and in poor condition.
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No, it wasn't.
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Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
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No, it wasn't.
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A decade long war with Iran, A war against the world in 91, and 12 years of sanctions, yet you don't think the infrastructure was neglected and in poor condition?
Infrastructure was just fine. All fifty palaces were in good repair.
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Originally posted by underthedome: *
**A decade long war with Iran, A war against the world in 91, and 12 years of sanctions, yet you don't think the infrastructure was neglected and in poor condition?
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It's not me. You can read reports from WHO, ICRC, FAO... it's all been cited before by me in previous threads from a year ago. i've discussed this issue ad nauseum. Iraq was one of the most advanced Arab countries, gifted an award from Unesco for its efforts at fighting female illiteracy during the late 1970s. Child mortality rates were declining; education was subsidized for Iraqi citizens; hospital infrastructures were considered to be among some of the best in the region. i can go on and on, but what's the point; i have quoted sources before straight from Unicef and Security Council reports. Not like anyone actually reads those i think.
The wars severely effected Iraqi's infrastructure. UNICEF reports clearly state this fact. Hospitals haven’t been repaired since 1991 yet Saddam spent billions on his palaces.
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“In 1989, the World Health Organization noted that Iraq had 92-per-cent access to clean water, and 93-per-cent access to high quality health care. Iraqis boasted of one of the highest standards of living in the Middle East, thanks largely to its rich oil reserves. After eight years of sanctions, mortality rates, nutrition sufficiency, and most other social development indicators have tumbled precipitously.” http://www.web.net/~icact/mewg/Iraq_ICApolicypaper.html
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“What we have in Iraq is a situation of rapid decline…on the part of a society that had previously experienced…over three decades of successful development…By the end of the 1980s, 92% of the population had access to safe water, somewhat less enjoyed modern sanitation, and an impressive 93% lived in the catchment areas served by modern health facilities. The government’s network of health centers and hospitals was well disseminated, well supplied, well staffed, and effectively - if rather clinically - engaged with the populations in their jurisdiction…Iraq had converted oil wealth into enhanced social well-being with considerable success…Education expanded, child mortality declined, and life expectancy increased all quite impressively.”
http://www.stanford.edu/group/aware...rce/iraq002.pdf -
“A conclusion … is that if the substantial reduction in the under-five mortality rate during the 1980s had continued through the 1990s, there would have been half a million fewer deaths of children under-five in the country as a whole during the eight year period 1991 to 1998.” http://www.unicef.org/reseval/pdfs/irqu5est.pdf
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"The data in Table 1 reflect a modern urban society, in which the wealth it obtained from exporting its oil, was channelled, for the most part, into improving the quality of life of the Iraqi people, which at that period of time (1988-1989) was at a relatively “satisfactory” level, with indications of further improvement. At that time, Iraq reportedly had a good health surveillance and reporting system, hence, official data reported during this period are considered to be fairly reliable.
However, since 1991 the quality of data collected have greatly deteriorated owing to disruption in the communication and transportation networks in the country, which even now have not been fully restored to their original state, because of financial constraints. The data collected since 1991, through presumably this defective or damaged system, in all probability, are underestimates, and this specifically applies to mortality and morbidity data."
http://www.who.int/disasters/repo/5249.html
Nadia,
You are right, Iraq used to be a jewel in the Middle
East. But current estimates are that Iraq owes France Russia and the other Paris Club members as much as $125Billion. During the Iran Iraq wars Oil production in Iraq fell off over 50%, and the infrastructure in the oil fields was frequently damaged and never adequately repaired. Look at graphs sometime of the oil output of Iraq, it peaked in the early 80's.
Meanwhile expenditures on weapons, standing armies, and extravagances continued. Such is the price of totalitarian regimes. Despite the corruption of the Saudi's, look at the comparative wealth, and the differences in the standard of living. Differences in Leadership have enormous effects on a country.
North Koreans live in abject poverty, while South Koreans have an excellent eduation system, and a very modern economy. In the 1950's they were basicly even.
Isn't it this fretting about the past that gets people into problems in the first place? Make token one-time-only payments to the govts Saddam owed. None are so large that they will bankrupt any govt. They understood the risk of nonpayment when taking on the loan contracts. There are bigger issues than debt repayment. As for reparations.. they are traditionally meant to punish a guilty govt. There is a point when they lose their meaning and can become detrimental to more than one party. The Kuwaitis got plenty of money already, give them one more chunk as a token of goodwill and that's it. Time to move on to problems of the present and forgive the past, unless you're stupid enough to risk repeating it.