If you do not know of the Quranic verse, which dictates that the only code of government valid is Khilafat, then please say so.
There is no use beating the bush.
[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
**If you do not know of the Quranic verse, which dictates that the only code of government valid is Khilafat, then please say so.
There is no use beating the bush.
**
[/quote]
tell me u believe in Prophet Muhammad and his sunnah's.. cause thats wht we believe in and we do what he did.. and the system he chose for Muslims was khalifa.
cause we hear and obey..
only the Prophet's way
[This message has been edited by Warrior of Allah (edited April 02, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Khilafah1422:
**
If you understand the nature of the Quran and sunnah, it all becomes clear as to what the muslim ummah needs to be governed by and what the specific system is called.
When one looks to the Quraan, he sees that he is ordered to pray, Allah (swt) says " Aqeemus salaat" which means establish prayer. When the muslim understands his obligation to pray he now needs to know the method of how to pray. I challenge you to skim through the Quraan and find the details regarding the way to pray.... You will not find it as the method is embedded in the SUNNAH. Hence the Sunnah contains the details of things. As salaat (prayer) details i.e. the takbir, ruku, sajdah, recitataion of fatiha etc... are all in the Sunnah, similarly we must refer to the Sunnah when it comes to governing a nation. So we see in a hadith narated by Abu Hurayra who said he heard the Prophet (saw) say " The children of Israel were governed by Prophets, when one died another suceeded him. After me there will be no more Prophets but there will be khulafah (plural of khalifah)" The sahaba asked the Prophet "what do you require of us" and the Prophet replied " Give them (the khulafah) your bayah and Allah (swt) will question them on what he entrusted them with". Hence the hadith informs us of the system chosen by Allah (swt) and his messenger (saw). There are many other hadith which show the details of the nature of the Islamic Khilafah state such as the different departments that the Islamic government can have. E.g. The khalifah, delegated assistants, executive assistants, walis (governors), Amils (sub governors), Amir of Jihad, Qadhi mudhalim (court of unjust acts) etc... Also the life of the Prophet showed us a practical way in which the affairs of a society is catered for. Insh Allah it is this system that needs to be implemented in order to fulfill our objective as muslims which is to worship Allah, not only on an individual level but on a societal level i.e. when the society is governed according to the detailed rules of islam.
Salaam**
[/quote]
Jazak Allah.. a nice definition
I beleive the best system was in the days of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and in the era of 4 Kaliphs, and the Islamic state should follow the rules, guidelines, laws defined in that era, addition of new laws and policies of modern age can be included which are not conflicting with islamic laws.
and you may call that system what ever you like.
and mind is, Democrasy is derived from Islamic point of view, not Islamis system is derived from democrasy. why because when Prophet Muhammad (SAW) came with Islam the world before and then was ruled by kings, and there were empires. there was no concept of Democracy then.. It was the Islamic system who introduced the democratic way of choosing, decesion making, and giving mandate etc..
So Democracy(not the political term) a terminology is derived/extracted from Islamic System..
May Allah give us guidence,wisdom and courage to implement Islam in our life and world. for that is the right system. Ameeen
Dont think "you can" know "you can"
.::. ¢¼ ﷲ ﻼﺃ ﷲﺃ ﻶ ¢¼ .::.
[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
**If you do not know of the Quranic verse, which dictates that the only code of government valid is Khilafat, then please say so.
There is no use beating the bush.
**
[/quote]
I suppose you have enough wisdom to understand what prophet Muhammad (SAW) said abt the Islamic way of Government.. and Quran not always describe every thing.. in a clear and disntct way...
And Quran said" Follow what Prophet has given you" I dont rememebr the exact quote and verse.. I will post it inshallah..
Dont think "you can" know "you can"
.::. ¢¼ ﷲ ﻼﺃ ﷲﺃ ﻶ ¢¼ .::.
[quote]
Originally posted by FlameZz:
** Jazak Allah.. a nice definition
I beleive the best system was in the days of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and in the era of 4 Kaliphs, and the Islamic state should follow the rules, guidelines, laws defined in that era, addition of new laws and policies of modern age can be included which are not conflicting with islamic laws.
and you may call that system what ever you like.
and mind is, Democrasy is derived from Islamic point of view, not Islamis system is derived from democrasy. why because when Prophet Muhammad (SAW) came with Islam the world before and then was ruled by kings, and there were empires. there was no concept of Democracy then.. It was the Islamic system who introduced the democratic way of choosing, decesion making, and giving mandate etc..
So Democracy(not the political term) a terminology is derived/extracted from Islamic System..
May Allah give us guidence,wisdom and courage to implement Islam in our life and world. for that is the right system. Ameeen
**
[/quote]
“And those who disbelieve are allies to one another. And if you (Muslims) do not do so (become united), there will be Fitnah and oppression on earth, and a great mischief and corruption.” [TMQ: Al-Anfal: 73]
u r right. but democracy means people are in power or they have the power to decide whts good and whts bad.. but in Islam Allah has power and He has already decided for us whts good and whts bad. u c u cant compete or compare two totaly different systems like u cant do with democracy and communism. system of Islam which is sent by the creator cant be compared or competed with the system of the created (man). Islam is the perfect system.. we guys don know every thing from Quran and Sunna.. but if we learn every thing we will know there there is nothing missing in Islamic system that we will need to make our own interpration in. the whole world is suffering right now cause we dont have the right Islamic system any where.. and as we know man made system has flaws. so why not go for the perfect system even we know our minds are too small to understand every thing that Allah has ordered.. but we know its the truth send by God so just do it.. just follow every thing Allah says.. and dont use ur mind in thinking and making it easy for ur self cause they never say Islam is easy. (only false is easy truth is always hard.) and we know Islam is the truth.
“O you who believe! Enter completely into Islam and do not follow the footsteps of the Shaytan.” [TMQ 2:208]
“It is He Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the Deen of Truth (Islam) to prevail over all other deens, even though the Mushriks hate it.” [TMQ: At-Tauba: 33]
“When it is said to them: ‘Follow what Allah has sent down,’ they say, ‘Nay! We shall follow what we found our fathers following,’ even though their fathers did not understand anything nor were they guided?” [TMQ 2:170]
“And when it is said to them, ‘Come to what Allah has revealed and unto the Messenger (Muhammed),’ they say, ‘Enough for us is what which we found our fathers following,’ even though their fathers had no knowledge whatsoever and no guidance.” [TMQ 5:104]
“So be not in doubt (O Muhammed) as to what these men worship. They worship nothing but what their fathers worshipped before (them). And verily, We shall repay them in full their portion without diminution.” [TMQ 11:109]
“And when it is said to them, ‘Follow that which Allah has sent down,’ they say, ‘Nay, we shall follow that which we found are fathers (following).’ (Would they do so) even if Satan invites them to the torment of the Fire.” [TMQ 31:21]
“You and the idols that you worship will be the fuel of Hell-fire”
“Perish the hands of Abu Lahab and perish he. His wealth and children will not benefit him. He will be burnt in a Fire of blazing flames.” [TMQ Al-Masad: 1-3]
“And do not obey the one who swears much, and is considered worthless – a slanderer, going about with calumnies, cruel. And after all that, a *******.” [TMQ Al-Qalam: 10-13]
Countries with selfish people in power do not have democracy.
Indeed I believe in the Sunnah and Hadiths of the beloved Holy Prophet (saw). Though, there is no way to prove if a certain Hadiths is authentic. The only way to prove its authenticity is to compare it with the Quranic verses & teachings. I believe AnHazoor (saw) didn't command anything outside of the teachings of Quran!
So, as you claim that the Holy Prophet (saw) made Khilafat mandatory then there is bound to be such a commandment in Quran!
The logic is not as complicated as some people think.
[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
**Indeed I believe in the Sunnah and Hadiths of the beloved Holy Prophet (saw). Though, there is no way to prove if a certain Hadiths is authentic. The only way to prove its authenticity is to compare it with the Quranic verses & teachings. I believe AnHazoor (saw) didn't command anything outside of the teachings of Quran!
So, as you claim that the Holy Prophet (saw) made Khilafat mandatory then there is bound to be such a commandment in Quran!
The logic is not as complicated as some people think. **
[/quote]
here we are talking about replacing democracy with Islamic system.. The Islamic system which is very strict and was given to us by Prophet(s). now the point u r making is that if it was realy his idea or his system or people has just made it up.. well sir a man or people will always go for the system which is easy and which gives them power.. like they are doing right now.. Islamic system dont give any power to man, All power is to Allah.. now if a man has to make stuff up why would he go the Hard way.. The way in wich he will be slave. wouldnt he just accept democracy which makes him the king, and not Allah like our current position.
No, I am not arguing Khilafat as a governing system. I am only arguing if Khilafat is the ONLY right way of government or are there other ways which can work for Muslims.
If it was to be the ONLY way (ie: faradh on all Muslims) then in Quran it should have been made mandatory, but as there is no such verse, so its simple to conclude that Islam does not mandate Khilafat. It only mandates that the ruller(s) (how ever they come to office) should rule with Justice.
Khilafat is a perfect system that reflects the state of the Ummah. The pious the Muslims so will be their Khalifa! Its evident from the history of Islam that the first four Khulafah (ra) reflected the believers well! And the system worked at its best. Later it deteriorated into a monarchy, no different than the Shahs and Kings in the Arab land today.
Bottom line, Khilafat springs up from the righteousness of the followers, not the other way around. AnHazoor (saw) didn't become the ruler first & then made people united and pious ... instead, he transformed them into righteous human beings first & they all followed him by choice.
Make people good Muslims and they will choose a Khalifa themselves! As long as you will try to dictate Khilafat on them, its bound to fail!
Warrior... thanks for the explanation...
the term democracy which i was reffering to is in context that Islam does support democratic way of choosing the kaliph, taking opinion of people in critical decesions is also a islamic way. which was further adapted in Democracy.
Dont think "you can" know "you can"
.::. ¢¼ ﷲ ﻼﺃ ﷲﺃ ﻶ ¢¼ .::.
Someone once said (can't remember who), ** 'it is not Islam that is incompatible with democracy, rather it is oil that is incompatible with democracy'. **
Achtung
[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
**If you do not know of the Quranic verse, which dictates that the only code of government valid is Khilafat, then please say so.
There is no use beating the bush.
**
[/quote]
Beating the bush would mean that i did not answer your question rather i avioded the question. But rather i directly answered your question. Allah (swt) says in the Quraan " He (Muhammed [saw]) does not speak of his own disire". From this ayah we understand that the Sunnah (Ahadith) are all valid sources and infact are obligatory to believe in. So basically my answer to you is that the word Khilafah is taken from the Sunnah. There are many ahadith mentioning the return of Khilafah. As for Quranic ayah regarding a specific ruling system, there is a mention in the Quran where Allah [swt] says " and rule by what Allah has revealed" this alone is sufficient as the Prophet practically showed us the manner by which the rule is established and to follow the Prophet is obligatory.
Your argument is weak and i hope you believe in the sunnah.
Salaam
[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
**Indeed I believe in the Sunnah and Hadiths of the beloved Holy Prophet (saw). Though, there is no way to prove if a certain Hadiths is authentic. The only way to prove its authenticity is to compare it with the Quranic verses & teachings. I believe AnHazoor (saw) didn't command anything outside of the teachings of Quran!
So, as you claim that the Holy Prophet (saw) made Khilafat mandatory then there is bound to be such a commandment in Quran!
The logic is not as complicated as some people think. **
[/quote]
khilafah1422
So your argument is that because there is no mention of the system of khilafah in the Quraan our attitude towards it should be that it is not definite. If we apply this pricipal to the issue of performing Hajj then we have a completely new story. E.g. the Quraan just ordrs hajj to be performed but it does not mention the method of performance. Does that mean we can do Hajj any way we like...? Of course not, it means we must refer back to the sunnah in order to gain clarity of how to perform the ritual and what actions need to be done. In the same manner for the system of government, just because it is not mentioned in the Quraan does not mean that we are left to our minds to decide what is a good system. To use the mind as a source of legislation (making rules) contradicts our aqeedah as one of the names of Allah are Al-Hakim which means the legislator.
Hopefully i have clarified things.
I was waiting for some repliezzzz.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/sleep2.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/sleep.gif
zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
so woz i
Dear Friends, :)
If you were going to use (brakets) to prove that Quran made Khilafat mandatory then let me help you ...
[quote]
[3:103]... And hold fast, all together (khalifa, khalifa, khalifa) by the Rope of Allah and be not divided among yourselves (khalifa, khalifa Khalifa) ...
[/quote]
There, now when someone else asks you for a Quranic verse about Khilafat, use the above! Believe me, its much more convincing. :)
If we want a khalifa, and assuming that khalifa will not have a life long reign, we would have to vote for him. If we are voting then we are participating in a democracy. My view is that the people living in a nation have a right to play a part in the decisions that effect them. The Khalifat in the traditional sense could never uphold this right. You can quote the Koran as much as you want, but the fact is tht the quran has many interpretations, and everyone can find something to fit their concepts. In light of the fact that no single interpretation can be found, we have to choose amongst the various interpretations, that which makes most sense and is most practical. Whats most practical in this case is democracy.
Maulana Maududi's works about the nature of a state founded on the principles of Tawheed, Risalat, and Khilafat made it clear that the Islamic system is a democratic one.
What distinguishes Islamic democracy from Western democracy is that whilst the latter is based on the concept of popular sovereignty, the former rests on the principle of popular Khilafat.
In Western Secular democracy, the people are sovereign; in Islam sovereignty rests with Allah and the people are his caliphs or representatives. (Khilafat literally meaning "representation".)
In Western Secular democracy, the people make thier own laws, in Islamic democracy they have to follows the laws (Shari'ah) given by Allah through His Prophet (pbuh).
In Western Secular democracy, the government undertakes to fulfill the will of the people; in Islamic democracy the government and the people who form it have one and all to execute the instructions of Allah.
In brief, Western democracy is a kind of absolute authority which exercises its powers in a free an uncontrolled manner, whereas the Islamic democracy is subservient to the Divine Law and exercises its authority in conformity with the injunctions of Allah and within the limits prescribed by him.
[This message has been edited by mAd_ScIeNtIsT (edited April 07, 2002).]