Re: Who were Aryans?
I am not aware of Pandvas, no idea about Indian history.
Pandavs fought against Kauravs and there fight is covered in the book Mahabharata.
Re: Who were Aryans?
Where was the book mahabharata written?
Re: Who were Aryans?
A controversial topic in itself, Mahabharata is said to be written in between 1200 BC (by European historians ) and 3100 BC (by Indian historians) :)
Re: Who were Aryans?
ok:)
and what location do indians cite where mahabharata was written?
Re: Who were Aryans?
On the banks of river Ganga nad Jamna. That means Northern India :)
Re: Who were Aryans?
As far as my limited knowledge (that i obtained today) 
Mahabharata is basically a narrative of a war called kurukshetra, which was a war between Kurus and Pandvas for the control of a city called Hastinapur which is in UP now. The interesting thing is that Kuru kingdom was based in Haryana which again many times in the past has been associated more with Central Asia.
According to the quoted article there was a push of the vedic civilization from west to east, from Punjab towards UP.
Re: Who were Aryans?
It ha been said the Dravidians who occupied modern day Pam and north India were driven south by Aryans. Otherctheory iscfolks from central Asia aassimilated and formed the "Aryan" civilization. The vanaras described in Ramayana may be the natives.
They say the Vedas and Upanishads were written by Aryans. But sharabee the kaurand babloos probably know the answer (and queerst and Kaka when they show up)
The most ancient text is Manusmriti and it mentions that Raja Manu was from Dravidsesh-ah, if it regards king of dravidians in highest regard then their is no doubt that aryans regarded dravidians in very high esteem:)
Yes Southie Uncle one of the theories suggests that Vedas were written or reshaped by Aryans.
French historian Danielou, for instance, maintains that the original Vedas « were an oral Dravidian tradition, which was reshaped by the Aryans and later put down in Sanskrit ».
According to Danielou, the Mahabarata is the story of how the low caste Dravidians = the Pandavas, revolted against the high caste Aryans =the Kauravas, who had enslaved them during their conquest - and won, helped by the dark-skinned Krishna, a Dravidian of course. **Danielou finds lineage between the Vedic religion and the Persian religion (Zarathustra), as well as the Greek Gods; the problem is that he seems to imply that the Vedic religion may have sprung from the Zoroastrian creed! **He also puts down all Vedic symbols as purely physical signs: for instance Agni is the fire that should always burn in the house's altar. Finally, he sees in the Rig-Veda "only a remarkable document on the mode of life, society and history of the Aryans".
(Histoire de l'Inde, page 62)
All characters in Mahabharat was decendent of Maharaja Yayati, Bhagwan krishna was from lineage of Yadu, Kaurav and Pandavs were cousins:), as far as Swastika is concerned it is found in native american civilization as well:)
Gandhara cvilization which existed in Northern Pakistan was part of Central asia, and many people including Sakas, Huns, Greeks, Scythians, Mongols etc have been rampaging the areas over the centuries.
None of these tribes have any mention in Vedic and post vedic literature, Scythians means Jats sneaked in at the time of the king Kushan in 3AD:)
But wasn't Gandhara Civilisation existed in areas like Taxila and Peshawer, which are nearer to Afghanistan (Central Asia), where as Pandavs and Kauravs fought war in Kurkshetra near Delhi.
The mother of Kaurvas was Gandhari from Kandhar, her brother Shakuni lost his empire to some king:),Mahabharat covers entire region from Kandhar to Assam,Praagyjyotish to east to the tamil nadu in south, Ramayan even more primitive, hails Hanuman from TamilNadu and RakshasRaj Ravan, a brahmin by birth, as king of Lanka:)
Re: Who were Aryans?
The most ancient text is Manusmriti and it mentions that Raja Manu was from Dravidsesh-ah, if it regards king of dravidians in highest regard then their is no doubt that aryans regarded dravidians in very high esteem:)
All characters in Mahabharat was decendent of Maharaja Yayati, Bhagwan krishna was from lineage of Yadu, Kaurav and Pandavs were cousins:), as far as Swastika is concerned it is found in native american civilization as well:)
None of these tribes have any mention in Vedic and post vedic literature, Scythians means Jats sneaked in at the time of the king Kushan in 3AD:)
The mother of Kaurvas was Gandhari from Kandhar, her brother Shakuni lost his empire to some king:),Mahabharat covers entire region from Kandhar to Assam,Praagyjyotish to east to the tamil nadu in south, Ramayan even more primitive, hails Hanuman from TamilNadu and RakshasRaj Ravan, a brahmin by birth, as king of Lanka:)
If I'm not mistaken Sindh also got its name from Vedas :)
Re: Who were Aryans?
“arya” is used to mean “pure/noble” in india. in the south (karnataka/tamilnad/andhra) this has morphed into “ayya”. iyer,iyengar etc are brahmin surnames from the same root.
“arya” also means noble to iranians. the king of persia has always had the title of “arya-mehr”. (mehr is the same vedic diety as indian mihir).
“arya” is also the root of the greek “aristo”, again noble.
to me what makes most sense from all the heavily politically charged mumbo-jumbo theories i’ve heard is of the proto-indo-iranians from the andronovo culture migrating out of central asia gradually due to climate change, and various tribes/groups settling into areas as diverse as asia-minor/ancient greece, the iranian plateau, the indo-gangetic plains, and central asia (from where they have been replaced/assimilated by later turko-mongol invasions). there is little doubt that the aboriginal culture of indo-gangetic plains absorbed these migrants and were significantly influenced by them.
i highly recommend watching the bbc documentary “the story of india”. it is available on youtube, and has footage shot in pakistan as well. sheds some light on this very controversial issue. indian nationalists and right-wingers just can’t seem to accept that a lot of indian culture is brought from outside its current borders at some point in time. but they fail to realize this is true of almost all parts of the world.
Re: Who were Aryans?
But what is so political about this issue? Is it just our forefathers were greatest of all or something else that bothered those who deny that Aryans were outsiders?
Re: Who were Aryans?
when a party like BJP and its group of grassroots brainwashers in RSS/VHP build their base up on the idea that they are the representatives of indian culture, trying to reclaim and protect and defend it from outsiders like the "muslim turks and arabs" and the morally evil westerners, the whole idea that sanskrit is a language that developed outside the subcontinent, ie, an outside influence, is a big kick in the nuts. there goes their push for cleansed shudh sanskritized hindi.
it also raises the point that the nobility of indian culture, the higher castes that dominate hinduism, are technically outsiders who refuse to breed with the original indians (lower castes). there is a lot of room for discontent and rebellion against hindu-nationalism.
basically, it spins the whole idea of who is the real indian on its head.
Re: Who were Aryans?
Now thats quite natural in societies like ours 
Re: Who were Aryans?
The mother of Kaurvas was Gandhari from Kandhar, her brother Shakuni lost his empire to some king:),Mahabharat covers entire region from Kandhar to Assam,Praagyjyotish to east to the tamil nadu in south, Ramayan even more primitive, hails Hanuman from TamilNadu and RakshasRaj Ravan, a brahmin by birth, as king of Lanka:)
This gandhari that you have mentioned above could again be Kandahar or the gandhara civilization which existed in most of northern India and Afghanistan. What ever I have read about history the invasions have always been from west to east, except from ranjit Singh and I am not really sure of Chandragupta Maurya.
Re: Who were Aryans?
Gandhara cvilization which existed in Northern Pakistan was part of Central asia, and many people including Sakas, Huns, Greeks, Scythians, Mongols etc have been rampaging the areas over the centuries.
Absolutely nothing to do with my comment :)
Re: Who were Aryans?
^okies :)
Re: Who were Aryans?
But it seems that in the last two decades every new archaeological evidence supports the Out Of India more than the Invasion theory.
lol. An Hindu believes in Hindutva even when he is an atheist.
Re: Who were Aryans?
Is Hindutva a pure religious concept? 
Re: Who were Aryans?
Sindh gets the name from river Sindhu, vedic name is sindhsagar, as river sindh meets sea in this region:)
The entire history of Aryan Invasion was more promoted by the british historian as majority of north Indian looked different from Dravidians, the mention of Dravid desh in manusmritis clearly points out that they knew about superiority of Dravidians:), secondly aryans are considered to be martially inclined, but they entered in Punjab and wrote vedas without mentioning geography anything beyond hinduskush, again, vedas originated even before writing came into existence, so how can an illiterate tribe suddenly enter the region and produce such things suddenly:confused: without mentioning anything related to Persia or Caucasus montains ever:)
My request is for reading about the works of N Kazanas
the truth will be never out anyway, Harrapans supposedly destroyed by Aryans did have fire altars, Kamandal-ah, Vermillion hair parting which makes vedas, now again how aryans have incorporated them in vedas even before meeting Harrapans, is harrapans and Aryans is the same thing? is/will remain unanswered:)
South Indian never accepted hindi but were very receptive of sanskrit, so sankritized hindi was used to make an appeal though tamilians still don’t teach hindi in their schools:D
brilliant:k:
Mahabharat mentions her brother’s kingdom near the side of Hindukush that was lost because gandhari’s husband didn’t support him in the battle is also mentioned. Ranjit singh and ChandraGupta Maurya weren’t invaders they were local ruler, Maurya is backward caste now, Jats were scythian with origin in various region that decides our Gothram, mine is Gandhar gotram, eastern most, and considered the best one:), Purushpur, became peshawar, and Luvpur became lahore etc over the period of time.
Not a problem at all, bulk of primitive hindu literature is atheistic in nature, one can remain an atheist hindu as well:)
Re: Who were Aryans?
What is the origin of the word 'HinduKush' ? Is it refers to massacre of Hindus by Aryans and others?
Re: Who were Aryans?
im glad you said kazanas and not frawley or other nutjobs. kazanas makes interesting points, but imho there is a lot of evidence to contradict his claims since he made them. as for no mention of places or things beyond the subcontinent, it depends on how you look at the rig veda. look at the hierarchy of gods - indra’s father is dyaus. dyaus has a daughter named ushas, the goddess of dawn. look at the ancient greek gods - dyaus pitr → zeus pater. ushas → eos. even in the rig veda, you can see how dyaus loses prominence and the indian group/tribes of aryans move on to other newer more important gods based on local importance - remember the seal of shiva from the indus valley? suddenly the vedic rudra, who is a wind god, has been given new names and shiva is assimilated in.
but i do agree that the indus valley, the birth place of agriculture and civilization in the subcontinent suddenly had nothing to contribute and everything being attributed to migrant illiterate cattle-herds on horses? that is nonsense. panini’s standardized sanskrit grammar is all about a dravidian substratum, it is no longer very aryan/vedic. i’ve talked about this before too - the idea of karma, moksha, sansara etc are not aryan in origin.
even considering for a minute that the indus valley is the origin of the aryans, that still makes their identity outside of india 
and a political liability to those that rely on sanskrit for nationalistic appeal.
this is a bit of a misconception. sanskrit does exist in several strongholds in south india. for eg., the namboothiri brahmins of kerala (adi shankaracharya was one). but these are not natives. these are migrants from the north, with well-documented arrival and settling patterns. their versions of hinduism are very very distinct from that of the natives even today. they perform homas and yagas, and are the first choice of priests for certain temples as far north as nepal.
as for hindi, after suffering thru 10 years of it in school i have to say - south indian languages are a lot simpler - they are like english, no confusing genders for words. i don’t see the point of learning hindi as a compulsory subject when we already have english. to a tamil, hindi is as useful as tamil is for a bihari. i’m sure you have seen punjabi hindus already trade in their native language for hindi, and punjabi muslims seem to have an inferiority complex with urdu. sikhs are the keepers of punjabi. 
languages are precious, they have countless generations of heritage in them, and to replace one’s native language with another from somewhere else is a very bad idea imho. but that is another topic.