Khan !!!
The Book Jamia Tirmidhi (sometimes people call it just 'Tirmidhi') is one of the seven books of Ahadith called as Sahah-e-Sitta.
We agree to all Ahadith whether from Saha-e-Sitta or others, unless they collide with the teachings of Quran or the Sunnah of the Prophet.
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[This message has been edited by NMK Hajana (edited May 08, 2001).]
Salam Khan Sahib, ok here is the hadith again, with other references, you may see that some of them are among the saha sitta… And as for references for the sects.. . they are written under the sect footer… Shia sect might be hidden under different name, but as I said earlier, it doesn’t matter at present there are 73 sects or 730… these are the words of that great prophet(saw), it has to be fulfilled, if not yet fulfilled. Also if you browse that thread in leisure, you may also find the reference which confirms the 72 sects therein.…
The Holy Prophet Muhammad (SA) among many of his prophesies has mentioned in one Hadith, a prophecy which many of us has seen fulfilled in our lifetime. Nearly 1400 years ago, our beloved Master prophesied:
[quote]
Abdullah bin Amarra relates that the Holy Prophet (SA) said ‘Surely things will happen to my people as happened earlier to Israelites, they will resemble each other like one shoe in a pair resembles the other to the extent that if anyone among the Israelites has openly committed adultery to his mother there will be some who will do this in my Ummah as well, verily the Israelites were divided into 72 sects but my people will be divided into 73 sects, all of them will be in the fire except one.' The companions asked. 'Who are they O Messenger of Allah,' Holy Prophet (pbuh) said. `They are those who will be like me and my companions.’ (Tirmidhi - Kitabul Eeman)
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In this Hadith there are quite a few things to be noted. Firstly, it mentions the resemblance of the Muslim Ummah with the Israelites (i.e. Jews). In another Hadith (Abu Daud - Vol.2, pg.241) this resemblance is mentioned in the words that as among the Jews a prophet was raised in every century, among Muslims a reformer/Mujaddid will be raised and as among the Jews at the end of the chain of prophets a Messiah was raised a Messiah will be raised among the Muslims.
Among Jews there were 12 tribes each divided into six sects making a total of 72 sects at the time when the Messiah Jesus (as) was sent to the Israelites. After the appearance of the Messiah among Jewish people the list of sects increased considerably. So while talking about 73 divisions among Muslims and taking into account the resemblance of the Muslim Ummah to the Jewish people mentioned in both of the above traditions, it appears that these two Ahadith relate to the time of the Messiah.
Authenticity of the Hadith
Other than Tirmidhi & Abu Daud, Ibn-e-Maja (Vol.1, pg.163) gives three independent narration of the same Hadith. Talking about the authenticity of this Hadith, Abu Mansur Abd al-Kahir ibn-Tahir Al-Baghdadi says there are many independent testimonies for the tradition dealing with the division of the community. A number of following companions have handed it down as coming from the Prophet (pbuh): Anas ibn-Malik, Abu-Hurairah, Abu-l-Darda, Jabir, Abu-Sa'id al-Khidri, Ubai ibn-Ka'b, Abd-Allah ibn-Amr ibn-al-'As, abu-Imamah, Wathilah ibn-al-Aska' and others. It is also handed down that the pious Caliphs mentioned that the community would be divided after them, that one sect only would save itself, and the rest of them would be given to error in this world, and to destruction in the next.
pondering over ths only hadith can change your life, even if you dont believe in us. it has as many aspects as you can imagine...
PS: yes we do believe in Saha Sitta, the most authentic collection of traditions.
[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited May 08, 2001).]
Dear Mr. Zalim,
You “say” your questions are just out of your own imagination, I had no intentions of confusing you with statement I made about Koran and scriptures.
Every prophet has something unique and extraordinary about him, I don’t see you posting that. All I see is you posting verses from Quran which have nothing to do with the prophethood of Mr Mirza sahib.
Moreover, let me ask you some questions(I am sure you will hasitate in answering them because I did not answer your questions, but its your belief which is at trial not mine, so you should try to answer them with best of your ability):
You posted some verses from Koran in order for your belief to inhale and survive, correct?
Yes.
What do you say about the verses which ask us specifically to follow Prophet Muhammed(saw) and those who disobey him are losers and companions of hell, its in Koran, what do you have to say about those verses? [do you believe in them as you say koran is guidence to all of us?]
[IF] there was any need of prophet after Muhammed(saw) why would Allah in Koran say that - " today I have completed Islam and has chosen Islam as your religion…" - Do you think God would contradict himself and put a lie on himself?
[IF] there was any need of prophet after Muhammed(saw), why would Allah reveal this verses in Koran which YOU hold as a divine quidence and true book: [read it carefully and LAST means Last, nothing else]
Koran 33, verse 40: **Muhammad (SAW) is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the last (end) of the Prophets. And Allah is Ever AllAware of everything. **
Allah says that Muhammed is a [last]messenger/Prophet, do you think he would than fool us by sending another Prophet? Do you believe that God is kind of being who would fool its creation and be unfair to them?
If you believe there is another God who sends messengers than it is completely different story.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
That I will leave you alone with, and don’t even bother discussing.
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Dear Zalim, I appreciate your reminder of the earlier discussion we had as referenced above. I went back to that thread. It was interesting.
It is definitely compelling to see that despite all the atrocities Ahmadi/qadiani continued to flourish. Should I assume this is only reason to state that they are on true path?
question; under qadiani beliefs, is there a possibility of many more prophets to come and if yes when and what will be signs of that??
I also wish if any knowledgable sunni would answer or explain(in a decent manner) as to how qadiani have persisted, successful and continue to flourish despite all atrocities.
[This message has been edited by analyze it (edited May 09, 2001).]
In the 'ummah' of Moses (PBUH) exactly the same was the attitude of the disobedient people.
When Moses said to his people 'Allah commands you to slaughter a cow'. Intead of slaughtering a cow they said to Moses you must be joking.
Then Moses said to them I seek refuge from Allah from being one of the ignorants. Then they put questions to him . They asked from Moses what type of cow Allah wants us to slaughter. Moses said: "God says it is a cow, neither old nor young, full grown, between the two, now do what you are commanded". But they were in the habit of whiling away Godly commandments. So they did not slaughter a cow and again asked Moses to ask from God what colour it should be. He answerd: "God says it is a cow of a dun colour, pure and rich in tone, delighting the beholders".
These mischievious people again disobeyed the Godly commandment and asked Moses we cannot understand because all cows are the same in colour, so ask God any further details of this cow.
Moses told them:" God says it is a cow not broken in to plough the earth or water the tilth, one without blemish, of one colour". They said now you told us the truth, and they unwillingly slaughtered the cow.
*SAME IS THE SITUATION WITH THESE MUSLIMS OF TODAY. THEY WILL NOT FOLLOW THE SIGNS OF ALLAH, NOT THE COMMANDMENTS IN QURAN, NOT THE INSTRUCTIONS GIVEN BY THE PROPHET, BUT WILL ASK HUNDREDS OF QUESTIONS TO WHILE AWAY THEIR RESPONSIBILITY. THIS IS WHY THE WHOLE UMMAH IS IN TROUBLE TODAY INSPITE OF ALL THE RESOURCES GIVEN TO THEM. *
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[This message has been edited by NMK Hajana (edited May 09, 2001).]
ASan english mein b/c it was in urdu ,ONLY BELIEVING IN GOD ,ALLAH,wont make you muslim,you have to believe in mohommeds (pbuh)last prophecy & his message koran in totall!
If you believe in everything that rest of Shia Sunni Wahabi Malliki Hanafi Shaafi & any group Jamaat islami Jamat Ullema Tableegh Jamaat ,THEN WHY ONLY YOU ARE CONSIDERED OUT CAST BY YOUR BLASPHEMY???
Imnot going to judge you ,but others have judged you already ,can you prove yourself out of that.The onus is ion you being outcast to prove yourself to the others that you are indeed akin to there faith ,WITHOUT ANY CONCEIT<CUNNIGNESS DOUBLE TALK<SECRECY OR CONTRIVATION.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/dixsi.gif
I HAVENT MET AN OPENLY DECLARED QADYANI IN MY LIFE THATS WHY IM ASKING
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Seems like none of you can conduct a discussion pertaining to sect-related issues with courtesy, dignity or respect.