Re: What should be Pakistan's strategy to eliminate Taliban?
"Taliban" : students of religious madrasas.
I cant believe there is a proposal to fund madrasas and bring them into the main stream, thats what the Taliban want.
The madrasas should be shut down as a boarding schools, at the best they should be 2-day a week schools to teach Islam in addition to regular schools.
Re: What should be Pakistan’s strategy to eliminate Taliban?
funding comes with regulation. it’s not a blank check. a part of the overhaul would also be to remove the “unstable” teachers who are themselves candidates for rehab.
do we have a problem with the Taliban as an ideology as it is now known, or the word itself?
taliban the word basically mean students in arabic. don’t freak out, you’re a taliban too. literally 
we need to target the ideology and transform that. if the Govt. is expected to act on the madaaris, then it has to have a genuine stake in it. why can’t madaaris be a federally controlled/regulated institution?
No doubt about the first sentence. it is indeed a huge crime against humanity, and goes against the spirit of Islam.
But, i do think that govt. has to play a bigger role in reforming the madaaris, atleast initially and give them a direction, appoint worthy scholars to overlook the institutions and then the govt. can step back and let the institution/madrasa prove its worth.
if the madaaris are becoming a hub for brainwashing or teaching the kids a corrupt version of Islam, and it is done so within Pakistan, then it becomes the Govt's responsibility to step in and regulate. State board/city board/federal board, and so on....
perhaps some of the people that attend madrasa do so because they feel it is more religiously inclined than say the Govt. schools, (just guessing).
I dunno.. im deeply ambivalent in government sanctioning an 'acceptable' version of the religion. there is naturally some diversity in the religion, and one sect can be seen this variation as 'corruption'.
indeed worthy scholars should be motivated to overlook institutions themselves, and must already do so.
but yes to the extent that madrassas contribute towards violence against innocents and anti-state activity, that must definitely be regulated.
in my ideal world i liken these madaris to christian schools in the west back in the day that grew into private vocational colleges and universities. perhaps in time, once this phase is past us inshallah our madaris will do the same.
also vig the issue has not been of regulation. many of the most radicalized places were actually under government 'regulation' (e.g. Jamia Hafsa). but you know how government functions in Pakistan..
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i do however agree with your approach as well. precision is the key. minimal loss of life, target the leadership, ask the foot soldiers to disarm and go through rehab, strengthen the infrastructure, improve economics of the region and see it thrive progressively.
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yea, i forgot to mention rehabilitation. by all estimates the millions of people displaced wont have much to go back to..
its like the earthquake all over again.
"Taliban" : students of religious madrasas.
I cant believe there is a proposal to fund madrasas and bring them into the main stream, thats what the Taliban want.
The madrasas should be shut down as a boarding schools, at the best they should be 2-day a week schools to teach Islam in addition to regular schools.
yar, you cant paint them all with the same brush. there are madaris that do good work and are highly valuable as educational institutions in a country where rural education is absolutely abysmal, and all realistic expectations are that it will remain that way.
If you change the curriculum and change the teachers, then its just a regular school. Then the only problem would be the ownership of the building.
Sounds good but there is a difference between regulation and nationalization.
Re: What should be Pakistan’s strategy to eliminate Taliban?
Must look at the theme behind this statement and remember that many believe that Taliban are also indirectly supported by America itself.
No doubt about the first sentence. it is indeed a huge crime against humanity, and goes against the spirit of Islam.
But, i do think that govt. has to play a bigger role in reforming the madaaris, atleast initially and give them a direction, appoint worthy scholars to overlook the institutions and then the govt. can step back and let the institution/madrasa prove its worth.
if the madaaris are becoming a hub for brainwashing or teaching the kids a corrupt version of Islam, and it is done so within Pakistan, then it becomes the Govt's responsibility to step in and regulate. State board/city board/federal board, and so on....
perhaps some of the people that attend madrasa do so because they feel it is more religiously inclined than say the Govt. schools, (just guessing).
i do however agree with your approach as well. precision is the key. minimal loss of life, target the leadership, ask the foot soldiers to disarm and go through rehab, strengthen the infrastructure, improve economics of the region and see it thrive progressively.
couldnt agree more.
1) throwing away pro american image is the most important thing for army by stopping drones attacks and nato supplies..people who call our army as american agents can be silent..this will bring death to the ttp
2) take ulemas jehadis and actual talibans like moulana nazir on board...tak them in confidence..and then do a final strike in wazirstan against mehsud *******
3) completely close afghan border by mines..hire local people and make check posts at evry 10 kilometers..this will bring jobs and development in the area
) strenthen intelligence in the tribal belt
4) open schools hospitals etc to throw good image to people..
5) strenthen police fc by increasing their numbers and give modern weapons to them
6) an anti terror deparment should be establish to see progress on war on terror and manage everything
7) people should be motivated to help refugees just like earthquake disaster
8) use atom bomb as black mailing tool and end israel and indian influence in faghanistan
9) we MUST SUPPORT AFGHANIS TALIBAN.. and infact we r ;)
americans know tht we r playing double game and pakis know tht americans r playing double game
we must support our army beac we r literally facing world war 3..literally..mossad raw mi5 afghan intelligence agency and cia and even iran..**** man..our army and intelligencr r facing so many enemies..just beac we r the platforum for motivation for muslims and we have atom bomb
people who send their kids to madrassas are like any other parents, trying to get good education for their children. places where these madrassas thrive are places where government schools are either non-existent or barely operational. thats where the government needs to focus its efforts.
Karachi has tons of madrassas but there are tons of schools (govt and private), so that statement of yours is inaccurate. Those madrassas are however mostly restricted to students from outside Karachi (mostly NWFP), they provide boarding and education.
People who want to take apart madrassas probably don't know that a large number of these madrassas are 'boarding schools (religious)' where poor parents send these kids to get free education and food. so simply setting up govt schools isn't going to do much in that regard.
^that is a very fair point. the majority of these madrassas are run on charity or privately funded and therefore for many parents its either madrassa or no education at all for children. most of these children come from northern parts of pakistan, and that again has (i think ) two fold reasons,one is because it is cheap and second is because in frontier religious jirgas have always been in place rather than educational institutes , so the mood has always been much more religious, also better for finding a place in a society with madrassa education than a college degree. of course there is also a local population and foreign students.
Karachi has tons of madrassas but there are tons of schools (govt and private), so that statement of yours is inaccurate. Those madrassas are however mostly restricted to students from outside Karachi (mostly NWFP), they provide boarding and education. People who want to take apart madrassas probably don't know that a large number of these madrassas are 'boarding schools (religious)' where poor parents send these kids to get free education and food. so simply setting up govt schools isn't going to do much in that regard.
Fair point, and the boarding and lodging is a factor. However I was placing the alternatives, even in cities like Karachi, available to the parents of these children, in the barely operational class. That is because of the areas the parents of these children live in (often very low-income areas with poor schools). To my knowledge, one factor is that it actually makes economic sense for these students. There is a market for madrassa graduates (some kind of wazeefa thing), plus these schools, atleast the good ones, have some minimal vocational training and teach you to read and write. Plus its cheaper with the boarding and lodging factor. Sorry im so handwavey with the argument, its been a while since i read on the topic.
The broader point however is that the motivations for people sending kids to these schools are economic and for the well being of their children, rather than exclusively religious ones. In that case the government's role should be to improve its own delivery of education (which includes student support too) and perhaps include vocational training etc so that graudates have better oppurtunities.
Re: What should be Pakistan’s strategy to eliminate Taliban?
a good program on Pak army swat strategy:
Brass Tacks –10th May 2009
Re: What should be Pakistan's strategy to eliminate Taliban?
more of Zaid Hamid... :D
i think someone's converting ;)
Re: What should be Pakistan’s strategy to eliminate Taliban?
Zardari hints at reformation in Madaris system Updated at: 0800 PST, Saturday, May 09, 2009
WASHINGTON: President Asif Ali Zardari has said that the PPP-led government in Pakistan has resolved to bring reforms in the Madaris systems whereby the academic courses will be made rather advanced while government will bring them under the rife government systems.
This president Zardari asserted amid his address to community dinner here in Washington late on Friday.
President, on the occasion, also reiterated government commitment to continue with the military offensive against Talibanisation in restive Swat valley and vowed to completely uproot insurgency from Pakistan.
He said we are making our all-out efforts to extending strengthened ties with old time friends of Pakistan as was practiced by the founder chairman PPP Shaheed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and Shaheed chairperson PPP Mohtarma Benzir Bhutto.
He ruled out impression of disrupting ties with US saying, “Pakistan and US are friends for last 60 years and it is time now that we seek US help for the establishment of durable economic system in Pakistan”.
“We have taken all political parties on board as the challenges being confronted by Pakistan cannot be dealt with single-handedly”, Zardari made clear maintaining, “The reservations raised by Friends of Pakistan (FoP) are untrue and baseless”.
Zardari hints at reformation in Madaris system - GEO.tv
this being said in Washington to butter up the boss, i find it hard to believe. but if done, as suggested by some of us earlier, would be a good thing.
as long as the revamping of the madaris system doesn’t get corrupted with incompetent MNAs/MPAs and their relatives (unless ofcourse the candidate is truly worthy and competent/on merit), it would be a step forward.
more of Zaid Hamid... :D
i think someone's converting ;)
arey bhai,.. its for those who like Imran Khan stand on Taliban's. Coz Immi bhai followers mostly like Zahid Hamid.. right ;)
Re: What should be Pakistan's strategy to eliminate Taliban?
Why don't we have same level of help for the current IDPs like we did for those during earthquake? The govnt is clueless.
Re: What should be Pakistan's strategy to eliminate Taliban?
@wine: i don't know, you tell me. you posted that link ;)
Re: What should be Pakistan's strategy to eliminate Taliban?
Look the matter in another way. Swat people are counted most gentle and peacefull in whole NWFP. A large money and great tactics are used to push them on present stance. Why Swat is selected for this all. There is no Al-Qaida in Swat. Swat has hundreds of hotels with a world best weather and scenes, It can be an ideal place for a permanent base.
Re: What should be Pakistan’s strategy to eliminate Taliban?
Another intresting news not related to this thread but in the same invoirment.
Daily Brickbat
It Doesn’t Translate
An Afghan court has sentenced Ghows Zalmay to 20 years in prison for blasphemy. His crime? He translated the Quran into Dari. Religious experts testified it was an accurate translation, but it didn’t include the original Arabic text, and the court found that blasphemous.
http://reason.com/brickbat/