What really happens inside a madrassa

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
81

Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

that one also look them a fake story Ek Sazish :rollingeyes:

82

Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

half facts mentioned in that story, it was a rehab center for drug addicts, even parents of the "students" were angry at police and said they themselves got their children admitted there and they knew how they are kept, because it was their own parents who supplied those chains and locks. no matter how wrong was the way they were kept there, but it was not a "madarsa" in real sense, not even registered with any governing body.

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Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

This is exactly the state of denial condition which has brought the problem to this level. I don't know the reality if it was a drug rehabilitation center with 6-10 year boys as shown in the raid photograph.. but I now exactly the state of affairs in Pakistani Madrassas.. The main problem is from within the sector to reform... and the reality is today most of these seminaries are crime dens with illegal weapons.. extortion is the way of life for them.. they are indulged in all sort of criminalities... and some members of our society prefer to remain in a state of denial... and do not want to acknowledge the terrorism and criminality associated with these seminaries which is known to every child in this country..

84

Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

guess what only those are defending madrissah. who themselves never went there. :hehe:

85

Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

^ you sure?

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Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

The above raid where chained student were found was at Banaras colony. The place (from TV report) was: ‘Jama Masjid Zakariya Kandahlawi’ and associated Madrasa to this Mosque ‘Madrasa Arabia Manj ul Uloom’. The Masjid and madrasa belongs to Tableeghi-jamat … that I believe is registered and run under supervision of Wafaq-ul-Madaras (Deobandi).

It is obvious that Mufti Naeem would defend what was happening in that madrasa as he himself established and run similar Deobandi/Tableeghi madrasa Jame Binoria (one of the most influential Deobandi Madrasa and largest in country). There are many allegations that Jame Binoria produces terrorists and suicide bombers. Many terrorists are linked to this Madrasa too. Who knows, if police raids his ‘Jame Binoria’ they would find chained, tortured, starved, abused and locked children too, so Mr Naeem justifying before any future raid.

Mufti Naeem claim that it was drug rehabilitation centre is ridiculous lie. Rehabilitation centres are medical institutions run by doctors not Muftis, Qarees, Imam, Shaikh, etc. If this Madrasa was drug rehabilitation centre than Madrasa must be registered as drug rehabilitation centre (what it was not) and Police must have arrested medical doctors and not Qarees and Imam … what they did not.

Anyhow, even if this place was drug rehabilitation centre (what it was not), that does not justify patients chained, tortured, starved, abused, and locked up, the way things were found. Probably Mr Naeem of Binoria needs similar treatment for his own mental health cure, more than innocents victim police released from dungeon of Madrasa.

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Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

Wow.. what a detailed description of the history and geography of the madarasa. I am not sure the defenders of madrassas in this thread will be coming to post here anytime soon.

For the sake of preservation of madrassa style school system, in fact to make them flourish... it's essential to come out of this state of denial...

We have good examples also which can be followed. Iqra Education trust is running School Format madrassas with strong management system and strict over view and audit of the financials/management.. We need this kind of syllabus control with a strict code of conduct to reform the sector.. These religious/academic school system is a shining example of how actually a madrassa should be run which can actually and genuinely serve the society.

P.S. Mufti Naeem type mullahs are the biggest hurdle in the progress of madrassa sector education which can truly answer the modern needs of our society.. By actually defending this kind of madrassas by fabricating a story of drug rehabilitation center.. he has done a huge disservice to the sector.. and further shattered the donor confidence in Islamic school concept. He should be immediately relived from his duties..

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Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

^^
Brother you are right that some (rather many) people are living in denial when it comes to madrasas education. Actually, those who justify unchecked and unsupervised (marked the word ‘unchecked and unsupervised’ = Mader-Pidar-Azad) madrasa are not only living in denial but are biggest cause of ‘fitna’ Pakistan is experiencing. It is because of them, their blind faith, unquestionable trust, relentless supports and non-ending donations, these Madrasas that could have played constructive role in giving education to poor kids have become centre of widespread Fitna (destruction, terrorism, intolerance, violence, killings, etc).

‘School’ or ‘Madrasa’ are names of same institutions (no difference except words from two languages with same meaning), that is, institutions built to give ‘education’. There should be no difference between them, though in Pakistan people have divided their role. One is used to give main stream education and other for religious education.

Worse is that, religious (Islamic) education in Pakistan has no conformity as each madrasa follows different sectarian education, teaching not only different Islam but ‘some’ teaching ‘fitna’ ... that is to do ‘takfeer’ (calling Muslims of other sects ‘Kafir’), to kill Muslims of other sects as part of their Islamic duty, and fight state with objective to overcome state and then implement their sectarian views over whole country. Tahreek-e-Taliban-e-Pakistan is organ for this job in Pakistan (sectarian outfits are their helpers), where Taliban = students (‘religious students’)... is plural of Talib-e-ilm (ilm ka talabgar).

[It is open secret that these ‘some’ madrasas who are creating ‘fitna’ in Pakistan are from those who are working under wafaq-ul-Madaris Deobandi (that does not mean all madrasas working under supervision of wafaq-ul-Madaris Deobandi are fitna creator but unfortunately those who are, they have this one thing in common)].

Anyhow, ‘Education’ in any country is (and should be) government controlled as it plays major role in civilising population, sense of coexisting, and state building. Education gives direction to people of a country, insures future prosperity of a country, and creates harmony as well as understanding between people living in country. Such important sector cannot be left in the hands of private sector unchecked and unsupervised, especially in the hands of people who are creator of mischief and thus are dangerous for nation building (that is people who have their religious biases).

I believe it is time government should take control of education and rename schools to madrasas (or other way round). Further, government should produce and forcefully implement appropriate syllabus across the country acceptable to all living in country such that syllabus brings harmony and creates productive, progressive, and prosperous society. Religious education in syllabus could include parts of Islam that are acceptable to all sects (similar to what we had during pre-Zia period).

As for religious education related to people’s own school of thoughts, they should not be taught in schools (Madrasas) but people can get them taught privately at home. Here also, government should make sure that no one is teaching ‘fitna’ at home in the name of religion.

It seems some people believe that private sector has as much responsibility to educate nation as government, but that is ridiculous belief. Private sector could be in education as ‘philanthropist’ or for business purpose, but in the end responsibility of education and supervising education always lies with government. What we are seeing in Pakistan, country full of ‘fitna’ coming out of madrasas, only shows that government has not fulfilled their responsibility of supervising education properly. People have entrusted government with all the resources of the country and still if government could not fulfil their responsibility then government do not deserve to govern.

89

Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

how convenient it is to ignore whatever others are saying, and keep telling them you are in denial instead of reading what they said throughout the thread. and without trying to knowing the other side of the story…



but its from ummat, the “intellectuals” here would read it, its taliban paper, lolz and you call everyone is in denial except you

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Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

do you have any proof that the madarsa (which is the other madarsa than the one in first post) is actually registered with wifaq-al-madaris al arabia and muftee naeem is responsible for this? or its just your brain child? looks like you have something personal against mufti naeem and deoband/tableeghi jamat. instead of bringing facts you simply write complete essay without any proof...

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Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

A lot of them are into it. Most of them live in some far flung masjid away from their wives and release their frustration this way. In our village, they brought in a qari to teach qura'an to the kids. My friends used to tell me about how he was fond of kissing guys. There were stories about some of his favourite pupils.

p.s. I didn't read the entire article. You guys need to stop pasting long assays.

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Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

lets reply to your lies one by one…

  1. It’s not registered hence not under supervision of wafaq-al-madaris al arabiya, as you claimed. The registration authority has denied that, if you insist that it is registered share some evidence.

  2. you are clearly blaming here that mufti naeem runs similar madarsa, a blatant lie which you can never prove, ** jamiya banoriya is one of the most organized and respected religious institution in Pakistan today**.http://www.binoria.org/index_thejamia.htm
    Jamia Binoria - Wikipedia

  3. you again accused that jamiya banoriya produces terrorists and suicide bombers, which you yourself call allegation but still base you “judgment” on it.

  4. You say, “and if police raids his jamiya banoria they would find chained, tortured, starved, abused and locked children too….” You may have missed that at several occasions even foreign journalists have visited the madarsa and its open for public to go there anytime. Jamiya binoria runs one of the well known and well managed dar-ul-fatawa, not only offline, but online also. http://www.jamiabinoria.net/efatawa/index.html

  5. And the most funny part… “If this Madrasa was drug rehabilitation centre than Madrasa must be registered as drug rehabilitation centre (what it was not)” you yourself say that it cannot be considered a drug rehabilitation center because it was not registered with the concerned authority, but you insist to call it madarsa run under supervision of wifaq-al-madaris al-arabiya, even when it’s not registered. Hypocrisy much? In the same post?

  6. You say it does not justify patients chained tortured etc… well who said its justified? Did you read the posts before jumping on to write this collection of lies?

  7. And at the end you call for similar treatment for mufti naeem, even if he himself asked for investigation of this “madarsa”. And you call for his “mental health cure” that was pretty low if you ask me, a person who in one single post written sooooo many lies and uttered plain hate against someone, calling for someone else mental health cure.

Even more funny (and eye opener) is the moderator of the forum goes all “wow” on this bundle of lies and blatant accusations, and insult of a prominent religious figure of the country instead of asking the poster to get straighten up
This shows we have no shame left really, the state of affairs we are in is pretty sad. Almost same is the case of ruling elite in Pakistan, liberal secular trash which can go to any limit in the hate of deen islaam. Just like the ruling class of Pakistan our ruling class of this forum also. Such a disappointment…

you may want to see what jamiya banoriya actually is:

http://www.binoria.org/index_thejamia.htm
http://www.jamiabinoria.net/efatawa/index.html

saleem, unfortunately your posts only show that you have some personal hatred against tableeghi jamat/ deobandi school of thought, specially against Mufti Muhammed Naeem sahab. and our so called mod loves it… not cool

93

Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

Did you read my post or just responding on impulse?

The madrasa I named (‘Madrasa Arabia Manj ul Uloom’) is same that Mr Naeem claimed to be rehab centre. I do not know your mental state but in your post you yourself showed the place to be madrasa. You posted one picture showing name of madrasa and two articles in Urdu, they are:

1: Statement of Hanif Jalendhari. According to him, this Madrasa was not registered anyhow it was run by a religious person. Similar statement was given by Mr Naeem of Jame Binoria.

2: Ummat newspaper report says that this madrasa was on 2000 sq yards used as rehabilitating drug addicts as well as teaching Quran and other religious education to over 400 kids.

Obviously if this place is used to give religious education (not one or two but to 400 kids) then it is madrasa ... well, if situated on 2000 sq yards than it has to be big madrasa.

Now question arises, how can Hanif Jalendhari claim that it was not registered ... and also that the person running the Madrasa was religious (deen-daar) man?

It is funny statement.
1: Not registering and running Madrasa is illegal.
2: Not registering and running drug rehabilitation centre is also illegal.
3: Starting an institution to treat drug addicts without any qualifications (medical education) is also illegal.
4: Chaining patient and locking them in room is also illegal.

5: Worse about person running Madrasa and doing all sort of above illegal activities is that he was shamelessly advertising it outside the madrasa, as this is not only baighairati but making fun of Pakistani laws.

6: Worse still is Ummat Newspaper and People like Mr Naeem and Mr Hafiz Jalendhari supporting such illegal and beghairat activities of that so-called religious man and calling the person doing all this illegal activities as Religious person, shows beghairati of these people (and newspaper) as well as their values towards religion (calling such criminal as religious) and value of following Pakistani laws. {In my opinion, no religious person would shameless break laws as person running above madrasa was doing, and support person breaking laws what Ummat newspaper, Mr Hifiz Jalendhari and Mr Naeem did)

7: After all this, baigharat Ummat newspaper writes that this Madrasa should get started again so that kids can get education ... when this madrasa should shut down not only because it was torturing kids but because it was working illegally too ... and person running this madrasa should rot in jail as these criminals were guilty of breaking too many laws of Pakistan.

*.

Further: This is not first case of madrasa where kids are discovered getting tortured and chained, but there are many such incidents on records where kids are abused in every ways including torture and putting them in chain.

As for me mentioning (pointing out) Deobandi Madrasas, without any hard feelings, this is unfortunate that most cases of abuses and atrocities towards kids (though some could be in other madrasas too) and all terrorism related activities are associated to deobandi madrasas, and further, those who come to support/justify such activities of madrasas are also mostly from deobandi madrasas.

Worst still is that all involved in Pakistan terrorist activities (sectarian violence, suicide bombings, or people fighting against Pakistan like TTP) belongs to Deobandi sect.*

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Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

^ there you go again, repeating the same thing over and over again. i dont think now its necessary to answer any of the stuff you have written above. it clearly is full of hate against a specific thought of school and some individuals.

i'm out of this now. keep ranting

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Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

Bhai Naraaz na hou. I have said nothing other than quoted your post and asked some questions. For instance:

Do you know or not that a place situated on 2000 sq yards, where over 400 students take religious education has to be Madrasa?

Do you know or not that to run Madrasa without registration is illegal?
Do you know or not that to run drug rehabilitation centre without registration is illegal?
Do you know or not that to treat patient (including drug addicts) when a person do not have medical degree is illegal?
Do you know or not that to abuse, starve, chain and keep student (well, patient or anyone) behind lock is illegal?

Do you know or not that anyone involve in such illegal activities cannot be law abiding citizen rather would be a criminal?

Do you know or not that supporting criminals involved in above mentioned crimes openly in newspapers and on TV is immoral, shameful, and disgusting?

If someone calls a person involved in above crimes and anti-social activities as ‘deen daar’ than what one should think about the ‘deen’ of such person … Islam or kufr?

From your posts (you can read it again if you want to):

Tell us that Ummat newspaper, Mr Naeem of Jame Banoria and Mr Hafiz Jalendhari of ‘Wafaq-ul-Madaras (Deobandi)’ as well as ‘JUI’ did support criminals of mentioned madrasa and their anti-social criminal activities or not?

Tell us that Mr Hafiz Jalendhari of ‘Wafaq-ul-Madaras (Deobandi)’ as well as ‘JUI’ called the person involved in all above crime as ‘deen daar’ person or not?

Tell us that, as Mr Hafiz Jalendhari claims to know the person running that notorious Madrasa, calling him deen daar, then was it not duty of Mr Hafiz Jalendhari to tell him that he should get his madrasa registered with Wafaq-ul-Madaras (Deobandi), especially when Mr Hafiz Jalendhari holds important post in Wafaq-ul-Madaras Arabia? And since he did not, does it not mean Mr Hafiz Jalendhari do not deserve to hold any post in Wafaq-ul-Madaras Al Arabia and thus should get sack?

Your relevant post:

Please note: As far as my comment on Mufti Naeem is concerned, there is nothing personal. Any person who would have supported madrasa guilty of abuses and atrocities on innocents in their care (as happened in above madrasa), or supported abuses and atrocities on innocents (regardless of their colour, sect or creed) be they in Madrasa or outside madrasa, I would consider that person worthless and characterless.

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Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

1) Expressing my views as a poster has nothing to do with my moderatorship. If you have any objection on any of my action as a moderator which you think is biased, you are welcome to point out that.. instead of objecting to my personal views as a poster and trying to merge it with the fact that I am a moderator. If my personal views are contrary to your personal opinion, you are welcome to discuss them in this thread or any other thread. No body has stopped you in this thread or any other thread to give your reason to have a different point of view on the subject and express it even.

2) I consider myself a poster first and a moderator later. I do express my opinions in this forum which you are other may or may not agree with. As you are free to express your opinion, I am also entitled to express my opinion without... and being a moderator does not change anything. Specifically pointing out that being a moderator and expressing my opinion in this manner will not put any pressure on me to refrain from expressing my opinion.. I can assure you that it will not happen.. if you like it or not..

3) Coming back to the topic under discussion in this thread.. I have not insulted Islam, I did not criticize the Islamic way of schooling.. I have criticized the criminality which is being done behind the facade of religious seminaries.. You can go to any street in Pakistan to ask any child in the street who can verify these criminalities.

4) I have talked about reforming the Islamic School sector by external auditing their accounts and bring them under a certain code of conduct. Every child in every street knows that the source of finance and their expenditure is a big question mark on the schools falling under this system.
There is no code of conduct/audit available implemented on these schools.

5) I have pointed out that the biggest hurdle in reforming this sector is the people running this sector, who resist accountability and code of conduct to safe guard the criminality which is going behind the facade of these seminaries.

6) I have criticized a cleric who wrongfully tried to defend the madrassa under question by outrightly demanding the madrasa was not registered, and was probably a mental correction facilty. Now the clear fact has been revealed that it was after all a registered madrassa. I tried to point out exactly towards this mindset which resists reforming the sector by defending every wrong doing of this sector.

I will appreciate if you have anything to say on the topic please give some valid logical reasons to substantiate your argument instead of criticizing me as a moderator. Being a moderator has nothing to do with this discussion...

97

Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

And which village precisely is that, CG?

98

Re: What really happens inside a madrassa

Well never mind. It is their own state of denial which isnt letting them admitting the truth. Lakkum deenukum, Wa li Adeen.