What did we do wrong?

[Das_Reich]

Re: What did we do wrong?

@Blitzkrieg

Are you talking mongols, afghans???

I think many of these rulers were there more to make a buck for themselves (booty) than to spread Islam!

I mean look at Timur Lane and how he made a minar of skulls (of sorts) in delhi in his wars!

Whatever you want to call them the bottomline is that they called themselves muslims.Sure Mahmud of Ghazni was more interested in raiding than anything else but after the ghoris the sultans pretty much became based in Dehli rather than central asia was it not their responsibility to spread the faith by any mean neccessary?

[Blitzkrieg]

Re: What did we do wrong?

[quote]
was it not their responsibility to spread the faith by any mean neccessary?
[/quote]

Maybe that was not their understanding of Islam..

[Captain1]

Re: What did we do wrong?

@Das Reich

Whatever you want to call them the bottomline is that they called themselves muslims.Sure Mahmud of Ghazni was more interested in raiding than anything else but after the ghoris the sultans pretty much became based in Dehli rather than central asia was it not their responsibility to spread the faith by any mean neccessary?

They were more of “sultans” or “kings” than “Muslims”, so their primary interest was being met.

[Das_Reich]

Re: What did we do wrong?

What would you have done if you were a sultan? (regarding conversions)

[Blitzkrieg]

Re: What did we do wrong?

@Das Reich

What would you have done if you were a sultan? (regarding conversions)

^ I think I would support Islam and conversions but isn’t the job of the ruler to provide for the people???

[Das_Reich]

Re: What did we do wrong?

@Blitzkrieg

^ but isn’t the job of the ruler to provide for the people???

Sure it is …but distinction has to be made b/w the muslim subjects those Pagans that submitted w/o a fight and those that were subdued after fighting(remember it is the 10-11th centuary)

[rvikz]

Re: What did we do wrong?

@Das Reich

Sure it is …but distinction has to be made b/w the muslim subjects those Pagans that submitted w/o a fight and those that were subdued after fighting(remember it is the 10-11th centuary)

pakistanis did not resist at all just found out islam is good ater invasion?
iranians gave up easily too. indonesia it is different

[Das_Reich]

Re: What did we do wrong?

@rvikz

pakistanis did not resist at all just found out islam is good ater invasion?

what pakistanis? which invasion?

[Captain1]

Re: What did we do wrong?

@Das Reich

what pakistanis? which invasion?

don’t worry about him, he suffers from occasional constipation.

[expatobserver]

Re: What did we do wrong?

@Captain1

who said you have to become “like them”? **how good of a “Muslim” those rulers really were? **besides, those “Inquisitions” (?) were different from “Muslim” rulers of sub-continent.

“dhimmi” status is only for People of the Book?

A good question, in fact a very good question.

[Rahul67]

Re: What did we do wrong?

The world took centuries to disconnect relgion from governance. Though it doesn't gone down well with some people.
So as per Das's logic -
India should be a Hindu country and convert all 15Crore Muslims to Hindus
Pakistan is a Muslim country and by force or discussion should convert 1 crore or so non-muslims to Islam and
So forth for all the countries...

[Das_Reich]

Re: What did we do wrong?

@Rahul67

The world took centuries to disconnect relgion from governance. Though it doesn’t gone down well with some people.
So as per Das’s logic -
India should be a Hindu country and convert all 15Crore Muslims to Hindus
Pakistan is a Muslim country and by force or discussion should convert 1 crore or so non-muslims to Islam and
So forth for all the countries…

I am discussing the situation of mediveal India 20th centuary Indo-pak sub

and why is it such a good thing to disconnect religion from governance?

[Rahul67]

Re: What did we do wrong?

@Das Reich

I am discussing the situation of mediveal India 20th centuary Indo-pak sub ]

Just to correct, you are discussing medival practices of world where brutality in name of religion was acceptable, and by saying “what did we do wrong”. You are supporting those practices. So in a sense usage of those by British in India since 1750 onwards would have been acceptable. So no Muslim or Hindu in India (Including Pakistan). Or we are talking about first time Muslims settled in India under Hindu kings in early 11th or 12th Century. So No muslims in South India atleast"

and why is it such a good thing to disconnect religion from governance?

<< You need to read some more history, which explains why religion got disconnected from governance. Since Religion is about individual faith and governance is about community and economy>>

By the way Das, Get a life… Religion is for peace of soul ..“Not about What wrong we did.”"

[Das_Reich]

Re: What did we do wrong?

@Rahul67

<< You need to read some more history, which explains why religion got disconnected from governance. Since Religion is about individual faith and governance is about community and economy>>

By the way Das, Get a life… Religion is for peace of soul ..“Not about What wrong we did.”"

And you need to learn more about Islam,this disconnect was never there in early islamic history it was with the Umayyad dynasty that this distinction was made

[Rahul67]

Re: What did we do wrong?

@Das Reich

And you need to learn more about Islam,this disconnect was never there in early islamic history it was with the Umayyad dynasty that this distinction was made

Exactly the point, Get out of only and only Islam, try to understand the things in wider prespective. All religions had religion and governance connected and got them separated over time. Islam being youngest religion of all is still grappling with this.
There have been Civilizations before us and would be after us. The religion of all those were different and would be different in in coming centuries. So think from larger prespective of civilizations.

[Das_Reich]

Re: What did we do wrong?

@Rahul67

Exactly the point, Get out of only and only Islam, try to understand the things in wider prespective. All religions had religion and governance connected and got them separated over time. Islam being youngest religion of all is still grappling with this.
There have been Civilizations before us and would be after us. The religion of all those were different and would be different in in coming centuries. So think from larger prespective of civilizations.

This thread was not about “understanding things in a wider perspective” as you say but concerned a very specific topic of Indian sultans and the propagation of Islam.If you have nothing to contribute to this subject then simply dont post here.

[Rahul67]

Re: What did we do wrong?

Topics are not discussed in isolation. They are discussed in wider undrelining prespective and that's what I am asking you to look at...

[Das_Reich]

Re: What did we do wrong?

@Rahul67

Topics are not discussed in isolation. They are discussed in wider undrelining prespective and that’s what I am asking you to look at…

ALright I appreciate your advice

[zxcvb]

Re: What did we do wrong?

The main reason Islam did not spread that much in India was becuase of the fear of revolt.
Even though Muslims were Emperor's their power came from the support of Hindu Kings. There was constant war. The muslim emperors were always fighting rebellions often using hindu soldiers.
My the 17th century, Rajput power declined and "lower caste" hindu's (marathas, sikh jats) united and all but defeated the muslim empire.

[Das_Reich]

Re: What did we do wrong?

zxcb,
Good observation I think even aurangzaib used Jaswant Singh and his rajputs to fight against his brothers.